Invincible party of 3 - Tutorial

[Raven Darkholme]

So a while ago I decided to fully test out the ciphers defensive mindweb and since I like parties of 3 characters, combine it with a chanter that has damage redux chant and a paladin obviously with maxed defenses.

If anyone is interested, I started a tutorial how to get this party to the needed levels and went into Act 2 yesterday.

Going with Kana and GM instead of hirelings, will go for hirelings once PC is level 16.

Up till now my uploading was kinda irregular cause of Dark Souls 3 and Street Fighter V but from now on I should upload more often.

Heres the link to the first vid:

(https://youtu.be/PtNBOFSRMKw?list=PLzscMCQ3321uDtjan2jm_3waeIt0ZCMDO)

[Boeroer]

Do you know what happens when you knock your paladin prone, then switch to Ilfan Byrngar's Solace + Hatchet + another preservation item ant then cast Defensive Mindweb? THe paladin will have +100 to all defenses as long as he's prone. Would this boost also translate to the Mindweb? 

[Raven Darkholme]

Do you know what happens when you knock your paladin prone, then switch to Ilfan Byrngar's Solace + Hatchet + another preservation item ant then cast Defensive Mindweb? THe paladin will have +100 to all defenses as long as he's prone. Would this boost also translate to the Mindweb? 

It does but it's not super effective in a party of 3.

Kaylon made a thread a while ago with party of 6 and one paladin for the sole purpose of being prone.

On the other hand I will think about this, since sacred immolation still works on prone and is the main damage source for pala anyway.

I just don't really think you need all that defense, since the damage chant already reduces damage to bare minimum and a party of 3 obviously deals a lot more damage than a solo pala.^^

[Kaylon]

There's a more elegant method - you can use a priest to withdraw the paladin during Sacred Immolation. He will stop taking damage and his defenses will be boosted by 100 because it works like a stun. With 240+ all defenses nothing can touch you anymore. Of course you can spec the rest of your party as pure damage dealers...

[Raven Darkholme]

There's a more elegant method - you can use a priest to withdraw the paladin during Sacred Immolation. He will stop taking damage and his defenses will be boosted by 100 because it works like a stun. With 240+ all defenses nothing can touch you anymore. Of course you can spec the rest of your party as pure damage dealers...

That might actually make the priest the better choice than the chanter in a party of 3, but oh well I hate Durance anyway.^^

In a party of 6 that's pretty insane 240= untouchable.

[Elric Galad]

There's a more elegant method - you can use a priest to withdraw the paladin during Sacred Immolation. He will stop taking damage and his defenses will be boosted by 100 because it works like a stun. With 240+ all defenses nothing can touch you anymore. Of course you can spec the rest of your party as pure damage dealers...

Should work even better with a Dragon Trashed Chanter. Faith and Conviction is not that relevent when you get +100 defense.

[Raven Darkholme]

 

There's a more elegant method - you can use a priest to withdraw the paladin during Sacred Immolation. He will stop taking damage and his defenses will be boosted by 100 because it works like a stun. With 240+ all defenses nothing can touch you anymore. Of course you can spec the rest of your party as pure damage dealers...

Should work even better with a Dragon Trashed Chanter. Faith and Conviction is not that relevent when you get +100 defense.

 

Dragon slashed is less good than immolation.

[Boeroer]

Ha - the Withdraw trick is very sweet! Didn't think about that. And an offensively build priest is very potent, too. Once had a priest with 30 MIG and his Holy Radiance alone one shotted most vessels. Not to mention his offensive spells like Shining Beacon + Cleansing Flame.

 

I think Sacred Immolation is not better. I can't say if DPS is better, but The Dragon Thrashed lasts forever, is a hazard (so it should have higher base ACC - but I didn't check), it stacks with itself every few seconds (don't forget Brisk Recitation that halves the initial phrase duration) and most important: it has a much bigger AoE that reaches all of the mobs most of the time.

I did a quick test some while ago when I had a paladin with SI and a chanter with TDT in a party (made a fire aura party once).

When I put my lvl 16 Immolation-Paladin in the midst of a group of upscaled ogres and cast withdraw he's not able to kill them all while Withdraw and Immolation last. When I do the same with a chanter they all drop dead. I didn't do any math, but it seems that even the DPS is a bit better at lvl 16 - because of Brisk Recitation maybe? Of course it doesn't heal my party members like Sacred Immolation.

However, they are both awesome and should work nicely with Withdraw.

Maybe somebody is willing to compare the DPS on a more scientific level...?

[Raven Darkholme]

Ha - the Withdraw trick is very sweet! Didn't think about that. And an offensively build priest is very potent, too. Once had a priest with 30 MIG and his Holy Radiance alone one shotted most vessels. Not to mention his offensive spells like Shining Beacon + Cleansing Flame.

 

I think Sacred Immolation is not better. I can't say if DPS is better, but The Dragon Thrashed lasts forever, is a hazard (so it should have higher base ACC - but I didn't check), it stacks with itself every few seconds (don't forget Brisk Recitation that halves the initial phrase duration) and most important: it has a much bigger AoE that reaches all of the mobs most of the time.

I did a quick test some while ago when I had a paladin with SI and a chanter with TDT in a party (made a fire aura party once).

When I put my lvl 16 Immolation-Paladin in the midst of a group of upscaled ogres and cast withdraw he's not able to kill them all while Withdraw and Immolation last. When I do the same with a chanter they all drop dead. I didn't do any math, but it seems that even the DPS is a bit better at lvl 16 - because of Brisk Recitation maybe? Of course it doesn't heal my party members like Sacred Immolation.

However, they are both awesome and should work nicely with Withdraw.

Maybe somebody is willing to compare the DPS on a more scientific level...?

The dps is lower, no need for science, lol.

Chants have the problem of not being active all the time you have these phases where you don't chant which lower the dps significantly.

Also don't forget the tick for the 40 damage ea on the chant happens a lot less, than the tick for SA, which basically ticks every second.

Maybe upscaled Ogres have a too high DR vs fire, also SA is not good vs fire resistant enemies, but there is only 3 types of relevant enemies this is true for and they are also immune to the fire part of the chant.

If you compare the situations where the chant is more useful than SA and other way around, SA is more useful most times.

I had a chanter and paladin side by side for wm2 and I was surprised how bad the chant is lategame.

The main selling point for dragons is the level 9 availability and ofc if you have more than one chanter and stack it for maximum of cheese.

 

edit: forgot your point about longer duration.

As long as you don't solo maxed INT Immolation lasts for the duration of 90% of the fights, since the rest of your party also does damage.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Raven Darkholme

[Boeroer]

I think we should look at the dps of both. I'm interested how they compare. I like both abilities a lot, so it's just out of curiosity.

 

As I said: don't forget that TDT stacks and that it gets recast every 4 seconds with Brisk Recitation - and that it's linger time gets increased by INT. With 20 MIG and 20 INT your chant's duration is 4(recitation)+6(linger)=10 seconds. It does 65 burn + 65 slash damage in this time. It gets recast every 4 seconds. Over 30 seconds it would have 6 cycles that would do 390 burn + 390 slash damage (building up 6 phrase points in the process). Using any invocation would cancel chanting because of recovery time, that's true. But you don't need to use an invocation if you don't want to break the chanting (but if the Ogres also profit from Defensive Mindweb - no idea, do they? - then maybe it's a cool trick to summon them (or a drake or whatever), then cast Defensive Mindweb and then turn into the Invincible Fire Totem again with Withdraw. )

 

How much damage does Sacred Immolation do over 30 secs? It's damage output is not in the wiki and I can't start PoE atm...

Edited May 28, 2016 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

27-40 per tick.

Pretty sure the tick is every second in this case.

Had to reload an old save so I'm not entirely sure since my new save is klnda far away from level 13.

edit: i can jump into a fight on the save to check for sure a lil later.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Raven Darkholme

[Raven Darkholme]

So I just went ingame and it only ticks every 3 seconds, that's only 335 on average in 30 secs.

I guess I never let the phrases stack on itself, since I mixed dragon trashed with the damage shield chant.

[Boeroer]

Cool (or hot ), thanks.

 

You could add Scion of Flame - it works with Sacred Immolation but not with the dragon chant. Then it would cause more damage I guess - slightly over 400. And Immolation causes Interrupts, right? Chant doesn't.

And I have no idea how DR is calculated when you compare SI to TDT because one is pulsing and the other is a double DoT... :shrug:

Edited May 28, 2016 by Boeroer

[Raven Darkholme]

Yea interrupt is pretty good also paladin on kill effects.^^

[Kaylon]

Sacred Immolation does on average 25 dmg vs full DR every 3s.

Dragon Trashed does 20 dmg vs 0.5 DR every 3s.

With Scion of Flame SI will be superior most of the time because of the higher base damage/damage bonuses even if it has to overcome a higher DR.

But when you start stacking the chant there's no contest anymore - it's 40dmg vs 25dmg... And with 30int you can even triple stack the chant... 

[Raven Darkholme]

Makes we wanna play my 6 Chanters again.^^

[Boeroer]

Hehehe. I imagine 6 times Ancient Memory combined with the +100% healing &  30pt damage shield chant.

Edited May 28, 2016 by Boeroer

[Kaylon]

When combusting wounds will work again DT will become even more effective... Also the chanter might be able to solo any encounter you can't finish until you kill everybody by withdrawing himself with the small shield from the alpine dragon.

[Boeroer]

Right - I always give the Black Sanctuary to a TDT chanter.