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Reflex defense is as high or low as with any other class. Yes, his endurance and health is pretty low. You can counter that by taking Veteran's Recovery after Weapon & Shield, then Ancient Memory, then Beloved Spirits. In the meantime push survival to 8 and take healing bonus II and put on Fulvalno's Amulett. This helps.

 

After a few levels the lower endurance and health isn't a problem any more. In the first few levels it is. I already said that this is a late bloomer. :)

Still I wonder which enemy downs you in two or three hits? Are you wearing plate?

Edited by Boeroer
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Reflex defense is as high or low as with any other class. Yes, his endurance and health is pretty low. You can counter that by taking Veteran's Recovery after Weapon & Shield, then Ancient Memory, then Beloved Spirits. In the meantime push survival to 8 and take healing bonus II and put on Fulvalno's Amulett. This helps.

 

After a few levels the lower endurance and health isn't a problem any more. In the first few levels it is. I already said that this is a late bloomer. :)

 

Still I wonder which enemy downs you in two or three hits? Are you wearing plate?

Yeah probably just me being impatient. But the reflex defense is very low with only 4 dexterity and 10 perception but I guess it doesn't really matter as the game progresses due to the reflex bonus from using a shield. I probably exaggerated when i said three hits but it was close. When I went to cad nua the spirits just annihilated my tank due to daze etc. He fell unconcious in seconds lol.

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Yeah - Caed Nua is a spike in difficulty because of the phantoms and other spirits. Phantoms cause stun on graze, hit and crit and also deal Sneak Attack. Being a pale elf and wearing Rhymrgand's Mantle helps a lot. After Caed Nua, in Defiance Bay, the game gets a lot more easy and you can level quickly.

 

I also never use one main tank who's supposed to take all the heat. It's at least two, more often three sturdy frontliners who are not 100% defensively build but can also contribute other things to the party. That's why I seldomly have the problem that my "tanks" are not tanky enough - even in the early game. In my opinion this MMORPG-approach of having tanks that take aggro and can't do much else while having glass cannons in the back doesn't work well in PoE.

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Yeah - Caed Nua is a spike in difficulty because of the phantoms and other spirits. Phantoms cause stun on graze, hit and crit and also deal Sneak Attack. Being a pale elf and wearing Rhymrgand's Mantle helps a lot. After Caed Nua, in Defiance Bay, the game gets a lot more easy and you can level quickly.

 

I also never use one main tank who's supposed to take all the heat. It's at least two, more often three sturdy frontliners who are not 100% defensively build but can also contribute other things to the party. That's why I seldomly have the problem that my "tanks" are not tanky enough - even in the early game. In my opinion this MMORPG-approach of having tanks that take aggro and can't do much else while having glass cannons in the back doesn't work well in PoE.

I used to use that approach, I used to send a fighter in with enormous deflection who was virtually invincible but I got tired of that approach. I don't use a single tank anymore, I generally use two tanky dps such as a dual wield barb with massive healing bonus from high survival and belt of bountiful healing and a dual wield fighter with high hp recovery.

 

I kind of have this thing that I need a dps fighter in the group mainly becuase they are so damn good at taking down dragons lol. I think I might just be bad. PoTD run I did was with two priests and two fighters LOL. 

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Well the chanter is not a great early game tank - same as druid and also barb to an extend. All three are really awesome at becoming "useful" tanks later on but you have to drag them a bit through Act I as frontliners. It's def. a plus if they are not alone in the fray. For me it's fun that way and the reward is that they deliver a very satisfying performance once the build idea manifests more firmly.

 

Yes, also my no. 1 reason why I'd bring a fighter are dragons. :)

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Well the chanter is not a great early game tank - same as druid and also barb to an extend. All three are really awesome at becoming "useful" tanks later on but you have to drag them a bit through Act I as frontliners. It's def. a plus if they are not alone in the fray. For me it's fun that way and the reward is that they deliver a very satisfying performance once the build idea manifests more firmly.

 

Yes, also my no. 1 reason why I'd bring a fighter are dragons. :)

In my opinion fighter and priest are the two most overpowered classes. I am going to see how I go with chanter for a while though. 

 

Do you always love having a barb in the team also? A high dps barb with high intellect just obliterated an entire gang in a second with heart of fury lol. I remember once at the start of magran's faithful bounty I just leapt into the mass zerg with my barb, hit heat of fury and they all just exploded lol. Sometimes it lags out my computer its so satisfying.

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Yes, it's the no.1 melee dmg class once it has Heart of Fury and if you know what to do. If you combine it with AoE debuffs and Combusting Wounds it gets really crazy. I like barbs - also because they usually are low maintenance AoE dmg dealers with the option to also do some auto CC as side effect. But they are not especially effective against the tough single enemies - but I think that was the plan all along. ;)

Monks are also very powerful if you know them in and out, but require a lot more micromanagement.

 

I can't say that I consider the fighter especially powerful, but he has his niches where he's really usefull - like against dragons. And he's one of the most powerful classes in the early game (together with ciphers, monks and and rogues) and that's also worth something. Regeneration and +20 accuracy nearly right from the start are very good.

Edited by Boeroer
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Yeah - Caed Nua is a spike in difficulty because of the phantoms and other spirits. Phantoms cause stun on graze, hit and crit and also deal Sneak Attack. Being a pale elf and wearing Rhymrgand's Mantle helps a lot. After Caed Nua, in Defiance Bay, the game gets a lot more easy and you can level quickly.

 

I also never use one main tank who's supposed to take all the heat. It's at least two, more often three sturdy frontliners who are not 100% defensively build but can also contribute other things to the party. That's why I seldomly have the problem that my "tanks" are not tanky enough - even in the early game. In my opinion this MMORPG-approach of having tanks that take aggro and can't do much else while having glass cannons in the back doesn't work well in PoE.

I used to use that approach, I used to send a fighter in with enormous deflection who was virtually invincible but I got tired of that approach. I don't use a single tank anymore, I generally use two tanky dps such as a dual wield barb with massive healing bonus from high survival and belt of bountiful healing and a dual wield fighter with high hp recovery.

 

I kind of have this thing that I need a dps fighter in the group mainly becuase they are so damn good at taking down dragons lol. I think I might just be bad. PoTD run I did was with two priests and two fighters LOL. 

 

 

Can 2 front-liners without a shield actually tank the harder difficulties? If so, I might try. I guess they have to be Fighters or Paladins?

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Sure. Depends what you have in the backline, too. If you for example have a backline with reliable and disabling CC then it's no problem. If you go for the self-healing approach then it's an advantage to have classes that have a decent health pool. But I also did a run with Priest of Berath + Tidefall in the middle flanked by dual hammer fighter and dual sabre barb, using Veteran's Recovery and all that self healing stuff. At first the priest had to rest a lot because of low health (not so bad because that also made me spend my spells), but it quickly got better.

Edited by Boeroer
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Sure. Depends what you have in the backline, too. If you for example have a backline with reliable and disabling CC then it's no problem. If you go for the self-healing approach then it's an advantage to have classes that have a decent health pool. But I also did a run with Priest of Berath + Tidefall in the middle flanked by dual hammer fighter and dual sabre barb, using Veteran's Recovery and all that self healing stuff. At first the priest had to rest a lot because of low health (not so bad because that also made me spend my spells), but it quickly got better.

 

I am thinking something along this line:

 

1st line: 1 dual wield Paladin (main), 1 2H Paladin

2nd line: 2 Pike Chanters (probably Tall Grass and Jena's Lance?)

3rd line: 1 Priest, 1 Wizard

 

I might just run 1 Pike Chanter and convert the 2nd Pike Chanter to a War Bow Chanter (Borresaine).

 

Would this be too painful early on?

 

Edit: At least 1 Paladin will be a Wayfarer for the extra heals. And 1 of them will be running Zealous Endurance for the extra DR. So the extra heals and DR will provide some additional survivability to compensate for the lack of a conventional shield user. If that's not enough, I could also make the 2nd Paladin a dual wield as well, but give this guy some disabling weapons like the stun Warhammer.

Edited by Lampros

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I think with two paladins you would get bored later in game and really I would prefer a barb or a fighter using duel wield over a paladin. A bleak walker with a 2 hanger is pretty OP though when you use flames of devotion. I have ran with a dual wield barb as a tank and a paladin offtank and it works extremely well. 

 

With two chanters and two pally's in your team is would seriously make things boring, you would just pop sacred immolation with both pallys and probably have both chanters using dragon thrashed and everything would just almost instantly vanish.

Edited by Ymiraku

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Technically FoD (especially of a Bleak Walker) is best with arquebuses against high DR (average base damage of 30) or blunderbuss (7.5 times 6 = 45) against low or zero DR.

Not so great with melee weapons like two handers (average base damage of 17). Even things like Savage Attack + Two Handed Style cannot close the gap. Except of course with Firebrand which has 25 plus Annihilating - it does tremendous FoD damage with a Bleak Walker or Goldpact Knight on a crit. Over 200 crit damage on an average damage roll is possible. It's my favorite melee weapon for FoD besides a durganized Hours of St. Rumbalt (usually follows Firebrand in the late game). I know: it's only 3/ rest. But I tend to rest after 3 tough fights anyway. In the easier ones I can still use a regular great sword. I lust love that fiery sword... also great for ciphers (hello focus overflow), monks with Turning Wheel and Lighting Strikes (whooha!) and rogues with invisibility + Deathblows + Backstab (Mr. One-Shot).

 

Bleak Walker with Executioner's Hood, Sanguine Plate and Firebrand is so... fiendish. :)

Edited by Boeroer

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Technically FoD (especially of a Bleak Walker) is best with arquebuses against high DR (average base damage of 30) or blunderbuss (7.5 times 6 = 45) against low or zero DR.

 

Not so great with melee weapons like two handers (average base damage of 17). Even things like Savage Attack + Two Handed Style cannot close the gap. Except of course with Firebrand which has 25 plus Annihilating - it does tremendous FoD damage with a Bleak Walker or Goldpact Knight on a crit. Over 200 crit damage on an average damage roll is possible. It's my favorite melee weapon for FoD besides a durganized Hours of St. Rumbalt (usually follows Firebrand in the late game). I know: it's only 3/ rest. But I tend to rest after 3 tough fights anyway. In the easier ones I can still use a regular great sword. I lust love that fiery sword... also great for ciphers (hello focus overflow), monks with Turning Wheel and Lighting Strikes (whooha!) and rogues with invisibility + Deathblows + Backstab (Mr. One-Shot).

 

Bleak Walker with Executioner's Hood, Sanguine Plate and Firebrand is so... fiendish. :)

When I said two hander I should have specified Hours of St Rumbalt. You are dead right when you say that firebrand and rumbalt are the two best two-hander options. I ran A bleak walker with forgemasters fingers for firebrand with scion of flame, merciless hand, dungeon delver etc. With priests champion boon on the paladin I would see crits for over 300 with FoD lol. Although I never tried it with a chanter in the party though with aefyllath ues mrth fyr I could imagine crits over 400.

 

Firebrand is so cool plus it kind of reminds me of those death knight guys around durlags tower which would wreck your face in 3 hits.

Edited by Ymiraku
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Technically FoD (especially of a Bleak Walker) is best with arquebuses against high DR (average base damage of 30) or blunderbuss (7.5 times 6 = 45) against low or zero DR.

 

Not so great with melee weapons like two handers (average base damage of 17). Even things like Savage Attack + Two Handed Style cannot close the gap. Except of course with Firebrand which has 25 plus Annihilating - it does tremendous FoD damage with a Bleak Walker or Goldpact Knight on a crit. Over 200 crit damage on an average damage roll is possible. It's my favorite melee weapon for FoD besides a durganized Hours of St. Rumbalt (usually follows Firebrand in the late game). I know: it's only 3/ rest. But I tend to rest after 3 tough fights anyway. In the easier ones I can still use a regular great sword. I lust love that fiery sword... also great for ciphers (hello focus overflow), monks with Turning Wheel and Lighting Strikes (whooha!) and rogues with invisibility + Deathblows + Backstab (Mr. One-Shot).

 

Bleak Walker with Executioner's Hood, Sanguine Plate and Firebrand is so... fiendish. :)

When I said two hander I should have specified Hours of St Rumbalt. You are dead right when you say that firebrand and rumbalt are the two best two-hander options. I ran A bleak walker with forgemasters fingers for firebrand with scion of flame, merciless hand, dungeon delver etc. With priests champion boon on the paladin I would see crits for over 300 with FoD lol. Although I never tried it with a chanter in the party though with aefyllath ues mrth fyr I could imagine crits over 400.

 

Firebrand is so cool plus it kind of reminds me of those death knight guys around durlags tower which would wreck your face in 3 hits.

 

 

Are you f-ing serious? 300-plus hits with 1 swing? I think I am going 2H on a dude next time! ;)

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Critical hits with annihilating two hander. And only on Firebrand I'm afraid. In the late game with Durgan Steel, superb or legendary enchantment and a burning lash Hours of St. Rumbalt will be better (also because it will crit more often).

 

I also like Runner's Wounding Shot a lot on a paladin. It also works in melee and adds some nice raw damage that can double your damage for one strike. And because it also gets +1 ACC per level it crits more often than auto-attacks. It gives the paladin an additional strike that's not a boring auto-attack. Great with Sworn Enemy!

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Critical hits with annihilating two hander. And only on Firebrand I'm afraid. In the late game with Durgan Steel, superb or legendary enchantment and a burning lash Hours of St. Rumbalt will be better (also because it will crit more often).

 

I also like Runner's Wounding Shot a lot on a paladin. It also works in melee and adds some nice raw damage that can double your damage for one strike. And because it also gets +1 ACC per level it crits more often than auto-attacks. It gives the paladin an additional strike that's not a boring auto-attack. Great with Sworn Enemy!

 

Hmmm, in terms of overall DPS for a Paladin, what is the best 2H? St. Rumbalt? Or Tidefall? Overall, I am inclining toward using St. Rumbalt, because you have a CC effect as well, but then Tidefall has a Superior enchantment, so I don't need to waste a Sky Dragon eye on it - and I will have a weapons-heavy group next.

Edited by Lampros

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This might be a really dumb question but where is brisk recitation? Is it only available if you actually rolled as a chanter as the main character? I have played a chanter a long time before my current chanter and even then i don't remember having this ability.

 

Chanter is a custom npc, on level 13 so far and tanks like a champion xD. 

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Starts at lvl 4 with 10% and then adds 10% every 3 levels. At lvl 16 your phrases will only take 50% of the original time to finish. Linger time is not affected of course.


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Just a question:

 

How much how Freeze DR is required to reliably shrug off Chillfog Freeze damage? If I pick an entire front-line of Pale Elves (so +5 DR), give them Rymrgand's Mantle (another +5), and Secrets of Rime (another +5), is that enough? That's +15 DR.

 

Edit: I am trying to figure out a way to be able to use either Chillfog or Slicken in TC playthroughs in the future without suffering too much friendly fire. In fact, I want to practice it now in a normal PotD run.

Edited by Lampros

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Look at the description. It says how much damage Chillfog will do. That's the amount of freeze DR you might want to have. MIN damage will always go through though.

 

But the problem with Chillfog is not the freeze damage but the blinding. You'd need very high fortitude to avoid it - or immunity via the Crossed Patch.

 

Rhymrgand's Mantle will give you DR but the healing part doesn't work on your own Chillfog (last time I tried).

 

Against Slicken you can use the boots of stability and Coastal Aumauas with Weapon & Shield plus high reflex. That alone should be enough I guess. Blaidh Golan armor (Brackenbury Sanatorium) and Pike's Pride armor (Copperlane merchant) both have Break Out which lowers prone/stun duration by 50% which gives you a good edge vs the enemies. Because of your high defenses you will only catch a graze if any, and grazes already only have 50% duration. So you would only have 25% duration while the enemy has 50%, 100% or 150% (at graze/hit/crit).

This can be combined with preservation items. Irfin Byrngar's Solace (shield, Drake in the Endless Paths lvl 5 after the pit jump) stacks with Blaidh Golan, giving you +100 to all defenses when you are prone in theory. That's a bit buggy sometimes. But it works most of the time.

A front line like this would be great if you use it with Slicken.

 

Maybe try a rogue? He wouldn't get hit that often because enemies are prone - and his Adept Evasion ability might prevent a LOT of Slicken hits.

Edited by Boeroer
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Look at the description. It says how much damage Chillfog will do. That's the amount of freeze DR you might want to have. MIN damage will always go through though.

 

But the problem with Chillfog is not the freeze damage but the blinding. You'd need very high fortitude to avoid it - or immunity via the Crossed Patch.

 

Rhymrgand's Mantle will give you DR but the healing part doesn't work on your own Chillfog (last time I tried).

 

Against Slicken you can use the boots of stability and Coastal Aumauas with Weapon & Shield plus high reflex. That alone should be enough I guess. Blaidh Golan armor (Brackenbury Sanatorium) and Pike's Pride armor (Copperlane merchant) both have Break Out which lowers prone/stun duration by 50% which gives you a good edge vs the enemies. Because of your high defenses you will only catch a graze if any, and grazes already only have 50% duration. So you would only have 25% duration while the enemy has 50%, 100% or 150% (at graze/hit/crit).

This can be combined with preservation items. Irfin Byrngar's Solace (shield, Drake in the Endless Paths lvl 5 after the pit jump) stacks with Blaidh Golan, giving you +100 to all defenses when you are prone in theory. That's a bit buggy sometimes. But it works most of the time.

A front line like this would be great if you use it with Slicken.

 

Maybe try a rogue? He wouldn't get hit that often because enemies are prone - and his Adept Evasion ability might prevent a LOT of Slicken hits.

 

Hmm, I like the Slicken idea, but I guess I have to give up on Chillfog.

 

I don't want a Rogue front-liner. Maybe a Tall Grass Rogue. But wouldn't a Tall Grass Barbarian be superior?

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Depends. If you want to take out certain enemies quickly, then the rogue is better. "Escaping" to your target and killing it quickly while having +25 deflection can be very good.

If you want to grind down whole groups, then barbarian is better.

 

Both can be very effective with Tall Grass. The barb has the advantage of being a lot meatier after some levels - while the rogue does crit a lot more often which can lead to perma-prone.

 

Actually now, after I wrote about it, I desperately want to try out a Slicken + Adept Evasion combo in my party. Why on earth didn't I think of this ealier...? :)

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Depends. If you want to take out certain enemies quickly, then the rogue is better. "Escaping" to your target and killing it quickly while having +25 deflection can be very good.

If you want to grind down whole groups, then barbarian is better.

 

Both can be very effective with Tall Grass. The barb has the advantage of being a lot meatier after some levels - while the rogue does crit a lot more often which can lead to perma-prone.

 

Actually now, after I wrote about it, I desperately want to try out a Slicken + Adept Evasion combo in my party. Why on earth didn't I think of this ealier...? :)

 

If I go with 2 pike/quarterstaff users to prevent the idle melee problem I had the last game, then what would you suggest as a 2nd reach weapon? Other than Tall Grass, I see nothing really appealing on the Wiki. Perhaps duplicate Tall Grass?

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Na. Always this duplicating. ;)

 

I would take Tall Grass and then Llawran's Stick (has speed) with shocking lash (just because it fits) and Durance's Staff as backup for when you meet crush resistant/immune foes(two damage types).

 

Llawran's stick is really fast if you combine it with things like Frenzy, Swift Strikes or Swift Aim.

 

A barb is also not too bad with Jena's Lance. Grazes with Carnage suck and the lance prevents some. Also the +1 CON stacks with every other CON bonus.

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