Soulbound Weapons

[Brimsurfer]

I'm scanning through this extended meltdown to see if he has used the word "magic" pejoratively. Like "I guess this sword just MAGICALLY gets the same bonus that applies to arquebuses??" I don't think he does...

Well I used the term 'bad design' for this 

[illathid]

The reason I started this topic is mentioned in the first post and that is that, I find it unfair that Soulbound weapons do not follow the rules of the game, there is absolutely no reason that they should be universal items and there is no reason why they receive a deity's boon for which their type doesn't qualify.....and many agreed that this is quite cheesy but few who disagreed keep posting repeating the same things over and over again.....so I have to keep responding with what I have already said before in the topic.......

That's patently false. Soulbound weapons absolutely do follow the rules of the game. You just disagree with how those rules work.

Edited March 4, 2016 by illathid

[gkathellar]

In essence, the Soulbound weapon intermediates for its wielder. Just think of it as the magical equivalent of a smartlink weapon - it plugs into the character's soul and provides them with knowledge that they wouldn't otherwise have. The character still does the heavy lifting, but the weapon supplies data with which to do it.

Edited March 5, 2016 by gkathellar

[Brimsurfer]

 

The reason I started this topic is mentioned in the first post and that is that, I find it unfair that Soulbound weapons do not follow the rules of the game, there is absolutely no reason that they should be universal items and there is no reason why they receive a deity's boon for which their type doesn't qualify.....and many agreed that this is quite cheesy but few who disagreed keep posting repeating the same things over and over again.....so I have to keep responding with what I have already said before in the topic.......

That's patently false. Soulbound weapons absolutely do follow the rules of the game. You just disagree with how those rules work.

 

Nope they don't follow rules of the game, they are very un-cRPG like....if this was a Fantasy Action game like Darksiders or PoP then I would have no problem with how soulbound items work but since this is an RPG which tends to have a specific system in place for how things work, I am sorry I find the current soulbound items mechanics very silly.

 

People have been rationalising soulbound items cheesiness into something fantastically believable but in truth the fact that soulbound items are universal recipients of all accuracy and damage bonuses, no matter where the bonuses are coming from, is just plain stupid.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[Brimsurfer]

In essence, the Soulbound weapon intermediates for its wielder. Just think of it as the magical equivalent of a smartlink weapon - it plugs into the character's soul and provides them with knowledge that they wouldn't otherwise have. The character still does the heavy lifting, but the weapon supplies data with which to do it.

 

Nope, that's not it.......you are just rationalising like many others. Just finding a believable excuse to justify cheesiness

[Brimsurfer]

deleted,

posted in wrong topic.....

Edited March 5, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[gkathellar]

 

In essence, the Soulbound weapon intermediates for its wielder. Just think of it as the magical equivalent of a smartlink weapon - it plugs into the character's soul and provides them with knowledge that they wouldn't otherwise have. The character still does the heavy lifting, but the weapon supplies data with which to do it.

 

Nope, that's not it.......you are just rationalising like many others. Just finding a believable excuse to justify cheesiness

 

Right, I forgot, things you don't like must necessarily be bad, and when others reject your criticism, they're just rationalizing. If the game or setting includes design choices you disagree with, they must necessarily be mistakes that can't be adequately explained. By no means is this attitude intellectually dishonest.

[illathid]

 

 

The reason I started this topic is mentioned in the first post and that is that, I find it unfair that Soulbound weapons do not follow the rules of the game, there is absolutely no reason that they should be universal items and there is no reason why they receive a deity's boon for which their type doesn't qualify.....and many agreed that this is quite cheesy but few who disagreed keep posting repeating the same things over and over again.....so I have to keep responding with what I have already said before in the topic.......

That's patently false. Soulbound weapons absolutely do follow the rules of the game. You just disagree with how those rules work.

 

Nope they don't follow rules of the game, they are very un-cRPG like....if this was a Fantasy Action game like Darksiders or PoP then I would have no problem with how soulbound items work but since this is an RPG which tends to have a specific system in place for how things work, I am sorry I find the current soulbound items mechanics very silly.

 

People have been rationalising soulbound items cheesiness into something fantastically believable but in truth the fact that soulbound items are universal recipients of all accuracy and damage bonuses, no matter where the bonuses are coming from, is just plain stupid.

 

 

Finding something silly =/= breaking the rules. Obsidian decides what the rules of PoE are, so anything they intentionally do can not break the rules. In the same way, a DM can not break the rules in a tabletop game of D&D. You can disagree with it, argue why it would be better if it was handled differently, decide to not play anymore, etc. But you can't say that it "breaks the rules."

[AndreaColombo]

If we're to make soulbound weapons follow the rules, then...

 

• they should have no class-based restriction. No other weapon in the game has those restrictions, so clearly they break the rules and are silly.
• they shouldn't require you to do anything to unlock their full power. All other weapons come fully unlocked from the get-go, so requiring steps to unlock soulbound weapons breaks the rules and is silly.
• they shouldn't be restricted to a single character to which they are bound. No other weapon is only usable by a single character at a time; very silly rule-breaking mechanic!

 

And while we're at it—

 

Who was the first person in this thread to claim soulbound weapons are "one of the best in the game"?

 

Oh, it was Brimsurfer on post #20!

 

And who was the first to mention that unique weapons cost a lot to upgrade, implying that soulbound weapons are generally better as a result?

 

Ah, also Brimsurfer on post #31!

 

But by all means, accuse me of derailing the topic when I reply to points you made as though it made perfect sense (and for the record, I am very well aware of what powers soulbound weapons have; you, on the other hand, seem to completely ignore all the non-DPS abilities that unique items have.)

Edited March 5, 2016 by AndreaColombo

[anameforobsidian]

I have no problem with restricting proficiency bonuses for soulbound weapons, but there very clearly is room for it in lore.  

We already know souls can be bound into items, Caed Nua, Sanitarium, Persoq;

we already know that souls can be linked to other souls (Twin Souls);

we know that souls can link to items to make them more effective Maerwald / White Forge;  

finally, we already know that you use your soul powers through items and that items reflect the strength of your soul (might, grimoires, specialty cipher items / every martial class ever).

 

Therefore, an item that links to your soul to allow you to use it's strength more effectively is hardly controversial.

[Brimsurfer]

If we're to make soulbound weapons follow the rules, then...

 

• they should have no class-based restriction. No other weapon in the game has those restrictions, so clearly they break the rules and are silly.
• they shouldn't require you to do anything to unlock their full power. All other weapons come fully unlocked from the get-go, so requiring steps to unlock soulbound weapons breaks the rules and is silly.
• they shouldn't be restricted to a single character to which they are bound. No other weapon is only usable by a single character at a time; very silly rule-breaking mechanic!

 

And while we're at it—

 

Who was the first person in this thread to claim soulbound weapons are "one of the best in the game"?

 

Oh, it was Brimsurfer on post #20!

 

And who was the first to mention that unique weapons cost a lot to upgrade, implying that soulbound weapons are generally better as a result?

 

Ah, also Brimsurfer on post #31!

 

But by all means, accuse me of derailing the topic when I reply to points you made as though it made perfect sense (and for the record, I am very well aware of what powers soulbound weapons have; you, on the other hand, seem to completely ignore all the non-DPS abilities that unique items have.)

 

Well I am not too hot for class base restriction on Soulbound items either, but levelling up the weapon and gradually unlocking its power its a good approach why do you want to take it away? It has nothing to do with established rules.......and these items should be restricted to the character they are bound to, why shouldn't they? Thats the whole idea behind these weapons.

 

Yea two things need to be altered, that I have been saying all along, if the soulbound item is not of the type that is favoured by a particular deity then it shouldn't receive that deity's blessings  and a character must spend a talent point in corresponding weapons group focus talent to receive the mastery bonus........is it something really that abhorrent that it's inconceivable and actually make people lose their minds?

 

Not going to say much on the rest of your post except that things you pointed out, I said them only to respond to previous posts, and they are all completely justified responses imo........

Edited March 5, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[Brimsurfer]

I have no problem with restricting proficiency bonuses for soulbound weapons, but there very clearly is room for it in lore.  

We already know souls can be bound into items, Caed Nua, Sanitarium, Persoq;

we already know that souls can be linked to other souls (Twin Souls);

we know that souls can link to items to make them more effective Maerwald / White Forge;  

finally, we already know that you use your soul powers through items and that items reflect the strength of your soul (might, grimoires, specialty cipher items / every martial class ever).

 

Therefore, an item that links to your soul to allow you to use it's strength more effectively is hardly controversial.

 

Yea I totally agree due to a soul link we can tap into the hidden powers of the weapon and use it to its utmost potential and that's why we are able to proc such abilities and spells with these weapons as they level up, and all these weapons are of superb and mythical quality, its only because our soul is bound to those items, and these items become as good as a superb or mythical item in hands of a soulbound character.........because if you equip these weapons on a character without binding it to him, you will see these weapons are just like normal weapons and have no bonuses or abilities, but as soon as they are bound to a character and put in his hand, the bonuses start to appear......

 

So what you said is already happening, we are tapping into the weapon's hidden resources by being bound to it and its perfectly fine, its a great mechanic....

 

But two things,

 

1) Receiving a deity's blessing for which the item doesn't qualify for, doesn't make much sense RP-wise.......Magran favours sword and arquebus, she doesn't favour a mace or a war hammer, so a mace or a war hammer must not receive her blessing, soulbound or not.......

 

2) Also receiving weapon focus bonus from a skill in a totally unrelated weapons group also doesn't make sense RP-wise......

 

I mean to me these are blatant violations of Roleplaying........

Edited March 5, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[house2fly]

 

.is it something really that abhorrent that it's inconceivable and actually make people lose their minds?

I don't know if you can really get away with accusing people of melting down while you are yourself melting down.

[Brimsurfer]

 

 

.is it something really that abhorrent that it's inconceivable and actually make people lose their minds?

I don't know if you can really get away with accusing people of melting down while you are yourself melting down.

 

I can assure you I am not melting down .... its just your perception

 

What about the rest of my post?

Edited March 5, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[house2fly]

Well, as far as Magran favouring some kinds of weapons over others, it's not like the gods can't be tricked.  Look at stuff like this to see how people try and trick God even in the real world.

[AndreaColombo]

Yea two things need to be altered, that I have been saying all along, if the soulbound item is not of the type that is favoured by a particular deity then it shouldn't receive that deity's blessings  and a character must spend a talent point in corresponding weapons group focus talent to receive the mastery bonus........is it something really that abhorrent that it's inconceivable and actually make people lose their minds?

 

Not abhorrent; merely unnecessary and inconsistent with the game's lore.

 

As for the rest, I was being ironic. There is nothing I would change about soulbound weapons, yet there are many ways in which they defy rules that normally apply to weapons in the game. You're focusing on one of these—their being universal—whereas you're fine with the others and this inconsistency makes your argument of "soulbound weapons should follow the rules" weaker: Either they follow the same rules as other weapons in everything, or they follow the developer's vision.

 

Besides, weapons created by Wizard spells are also universal. Why is that not a problem, but soulbound weapons are?

[gkathellar]

1) Receiving a deity's blessing for which the item doesn't qualify for, doesn't make much sense RP-wise.......Magran favours sword and arquebus, she doesn't favour a mace or a war hammer, so a mace or a war hammer must not receive her blessing, soulbound or not.......

Priests in PoE almost certainly don't receive their powers from their deity. The power was inside you all along, yo.

 

2) Also receiving weapon focus bonus from a skill in a totally unrelated weapons group also doesn't make sense RP-wise......

This has been adequately explained. You don't like the explanation, but that doesn't make it wrong, and your continued insistence that this is so and that the game's internals MUST CONFORM TO YOUR WILL is ... stupid? Insane?

 

I mean to me these are blatant violations of Roleplaying........

No no no, see, "roleplaying" consists of playing a role. If you are roleplaying in Eora, you take Soulbound weapons as a fact of life, because that's what you are. You, the person, may find it difficult to suspend your disbelief due to the inclusion of Soulbound weapons; you may not want to roleplay in a setting with Soulbound weapons. But that doesn't make them a "violation of roleplaying" - as if there were a magical list of rules compiled by Gary Gygax and agreed upon by all the wisest roleplayers in the land for what is and is not acceptable in fantasy roleplaying games.

[Brimsurfer]

 

1) Receiving a deity's blessing for which the item doesn't qualify for, doesn't make much sense RP-wise.......Magran favours sword and arquebus, she doesn't favour a mace or a war hammer, so a mace or a war hammer must not receive her blessing, soulbound or not.......

Priests in PoE almost certainly don't receive their powers from their deity. The power was inside you all along, yo.

 

2) Also receiving weapon focus bonus from a skill in a totally unrelated weapons group also doesn't make sense RP-wise......

This has been adequately explained. You don't like the explanation, but that doesn't make it wrong, and your continued insistence that this is so and that the game's internals MUST CONFORM TO YOUR WILL is ... stupid? Insane?

 

I mean to me these are blatant violations of Roleplaying........

No no no, see, "roleplaying" consists of playing a role. If you are roleplaying in Eora, you take Soulbound weapons as a fact of life, because that's what you are. You, the person, may find it difficult to suspend your disbelief due to the inclusion of Soulbound weapons; you may not want to roleplay in a setting with Soulbound weapons. But that doesn't make them a "violation of roleplaying" - as if there were a magical list of rules compiled by Gary Gygax and agreed upon by all the wisest roleplayers in the land for what is and is not acceptable in fantasy roleplaying games.

 

 

Disagreed.....

 

What I pointed out is the flaw in the logic of the mechanics..........you want to play by faulty rules.... be my guest but I will speak against them and try to improve the medium......

Edited March 5, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[Brimsurfer]

 

Yea two things need to be altered, that I have been saying all along, if the soulbound item is not of the type that is favoured by a particular deity then it shouldn't receive that deity's blessings  and a character must spend a talent point in corresponding weapons group focus talent to receive the mastery bonus........is it something really that abhorrent that it's inconceivable and actually make people lose their minds?

 

Not abhorrent; merely unnecessary and inconsistent with the game's lore.

 

As for the rest, I was being ironic. There is nothing I would change about soulbound weapons, yet there are many ways in which they defy rules that normally apply to weapons in the game. You're focusing on one of these—their being universal—whereas you're fine with the others and this inconsistency makes your argument of "soulbound weapons should follow the rules" weaker: Either they follow the same rules as other weapons in everything, or they follow the developer's vision.

 

Besides, weapons created by Wizard spells are also universal. Why is that not a problem, but soulbound weapons are?

 

I don't see these things you mentioned as inconsistencies......Wizards weapons are a seperate topic.......

Edited March 5, 2016 by Brimsurfer

[house2fly]

Wizard weapons are, uh, different.

[gkathellar]

Wizard weapons are, uh, different.

They're magic!

 

Wait.

[Ymarsakar]

If they are going to go with soul bound weapons, the least they could do was leave my builds alone and not take -6 accuracy just because my class uses a non standard weapon as their focus.

 

Soul bound weapons was already too Warcrafty and micro ish, and designed for grinding xp to get new/random bonuses on each replay.

 

The main poster reminds me of those micromanagement fanatics in the Stellaris forums. They tend to go on for pages and days and days, even though Clausewitz is easily moddable.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Ymarsakar

[Livegood118]

Ya'll are getting trolled pretty hard itt

[Ymarsakar]

As for being proficient in one weapon, I have more hours in the Japanese cavalry sabre than I do playing Pillars of Eternity.

 

The knowledge doesn't transfer to an estoc or greatsword or pike 100%, but it does transfer. Different ranges and weights, and certain techniques don't work, but if you understand the basics, you understand the basics. And basics can be applied to all kinds of weapons.

 

But that's not what people care about when they talk about their fantasy LarP roleplay, of course.

Edited March 5, 2016 by Ymarsakar

[gkathellar]

Ya'll are getting trolled pretty hard itt

Yeah, but I'm enjoying it.

 

Which is weird, right?