This is relevant and impacts most of us

 

@ TN

 

Just to be clear why was the last thread closed? We were discussing crime in the EU and the impact the refugees have on this 

The reasons stated were clear. Use the PM function if you want to discuss moderator decisions.

The reasons stated were clear. Use the PM function if you want to discuss moderator decisions

Sure, I will

I think it is now the time where Europe must changed...for a very long time eastern peoples have adapting and resisting westernization, now it is Eurpe turn to accept and resist easternization...it is just normal, it is a cycle of history, or some may call it "karma"...

 

You guys western know how hard for us in the east to maintain our culture and traditions from all western attacks? It is a struggle...like me for example, i was westernized but i don't want to loose my identity, i hold up what i know about being a Malay people and a Muslim...it is an internal struggle, endless struggle, i must keep balance of all influence i got...

 

So now i think it is western turn to feel what eastern people feel all these time....maybe in 5 years we can see western women with  hijab and western men with turban and beard walking on the streets of Europe...

Edited December 2, 201510 yr by Qistina

Yes...i can see it in 5 years...if propaganda work

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08M0T_Vco-g

I think it is now the time where Europe must changed...for a very long time eastern peoples have adapting and resisting westernization, now it is Eurpe turn to accept and resist easternization...it is just normal, it is a cycle of history, or some may call it "karma"...

 

You guys western know how hard for us in the east to maintain our culture and traditions from all western attacks? It is a struggle...like me for example, i was westernized but i don't want to loose my identity, i hold up what i know about being a Malay people and a Muslim...it is an internal struggle, endless struggle, i must keep balance of all influence i got...

 

So now i think it is western turn to feel what eastern people feel all these time....maybe in 5 years we can see western women with  hijab and western men with turban and beard walking on the streets of Europe...

When you make posts like this I think you are trolling because this has been discussed at length

 

The West allows Muslims to practice freedom of religion and be Muslim . Why would you battle to maintain to be Malay or Muslim, do you mean living in Malaysia ?

 

The West won't force women to wear a hijab ...we have no codes around dress  and that will stay like that unless Western governments lose elections to conservative ones 

Can't you see it? Maybe you never feel anything because it is not your country and your people who being a victim of western colonization...so you don't know how it feel, you don't know the value...

 

My country just being liberated from British 58 years ago...my people have changed much, some are western oriented, some are nationalist extremist, some are Arabinized Islamic...it is a chaos...because we have lost our identity due to western colonization

 

You don't know how my people begging to work with white masters, treated as slaves and lower beings, you white people dictate on how we should live....you bring in your values, you bring democracy, and your culture...you changed us becoming what we are not...

 

 

So now it is your turn...

Can't you see it? Maybe you never feel anything because it is not your country and your people who being a victim of western colonization...so you don't know how it feel, you don't know the value...

 

My country just being liberated from British 58 years ago...my people have changed much, some are western oriented, some are nationalist extremist, some are Arabinized Islamic...it is a chaos...because we have lost our identity due to western colonization

 

You don't know how my people begging to work with white masters, treated as slaves and lower beings, you white people dictate on how we should live....you bring in your values, you bring democracy, and your culture...you changed us becoming what we are not...

 

 

 

So now it is your turn...

No you are wrong there, I am a white English person but I was born in Africa so I know a lot about Colonialism 

 

When were your people begging for work?

Edited December 2, 201510 yr by BruceVC

 

Can't you see it? Maybe you never feel anything because it is not your country and your people who being a victim of western colonization...so you don't know how it feel, you don't know the value...

 

My country just being liberated from British 58 years ago...my people have changed much, some are western oriented, some are nationalist extremist, some are Arabinized Islamic...it is a chaos...because we have lost our identity due to western colonization

 

You don't know how my people begging to work with white masters, treated as slaves and lower beings, you white people dictate on how we should live....you bring in your values, you bring democracy, and your culture...you changed us becoming what we are not...

 

 

 

So now it is your turn...

No you are wrong there, I am a white English person but I was born in Africa so I know a lot about Colonialism 

 

When were your people begging for work?

 

 

Aaaah don't play that game...if you know about colonizations then you know what i am talking about...

 

There used to be a time where my people depend on British almost as if withoout the British we will lost, working with white masters is a guarantee of life...become your servant, your ghurka, polishing your shoes, open the door, carrying your stuff, and say "yes mem...yes sir...", working in your plantations and mines in our land, working in your companies in our own land...this is the life of us Malays under your "western education"...

 

Do not pretend you don't know what you done to indegenious peoples around the world...

Edited December 2, 201510 yr by Qistina

 

 

Can't you see it? Maybe you never feel anything because it is not your country and your people who being a victim of western colonization...so you don't know how it feel, you don't know the value...

 

My country just being liberated from British 58 years ago...my people have changed much, some are western oriented, some are nationalist extremist, some are Arabinized Islamic...it is a chaos...because we have lost our identity due to western colonization

 

You don't know how my people begging to work with white masters, treated as slaves and lower beings, you white people dictate on how we should live....you bring in your values, you bring democracy, and your culture...you changed us becoming what we are not...

 

 

 

So now it is your turn...

No you are wrong there, I am a white English person but I was born in Africa so I know a lot about Colonialism 

 

When were your people begging for work?

 

 

Aaaah don't play that game...if you know about colonizations then you know what i am talking about...

 

There used to be a time where my people depend on British almost as if withoout the British we will lost, working with white masters is a guarantee of life...become your servant, your ghurka, polishing your shoes, open the door, carrying your stuff, and say "yes mem...yes sir...", working in your plantations and mines in our land, working in your companies in our own land...this is the life of us Malays under your "western education"...

 

Do not pretend you don't know what you done to indegenious peoples around the world...

 

Yes of course I understand what Colonialism means

 

Sadly I had family member who were involved in Apartheid 

 

And yes Colonialism was a terrible system that mistreated many people. But I'm still not sure what you would like the UK to do now ? If its justice you are after the West has bled and suffered immensely during  WW1 and WW2 

 

But seriously what would you like from the West?

 

And BBC calls them Islamophobic

 

In Muslim-majority countries, they are often being lashed and imprisoned for blogging, hacked to death in open daylight, or sentenced to death for writing poetry. Here in the West, they are often being disowned from their families, ostracized from their communities, and even murdered by their own families in "honor killings." There are thirteen countries, all Muslim-majority, where atheism is punishable by death. And Saudi Arabia has declared that all atheists are terrorists.

Maryam Namazie's Council of Ex-Muslims of Britain started the #ExMuslimBecause campaign last week, encouraging dissidents from across the Muslim world to come out and say why they left Islam. The response was tremendous. By early Friday morning, #ExMuslimBecause was the U.K.'s top trending hashtag. We heard from secret LGBT Saudis; women who had been forced into marriages; closeted atheists in Egypt and Pakistan tweeting under pseudonyms; young women disowned by their families in the U.S.; and more.

Being part of Muslim families and communities, ex-Muslims not only receive the same bigoted treatment as other Muslims, but are also persecuted (often severely) by Muslims who consider them heretics and apostates. Ex-Muslims often find themselves caught between the anti-Muslim bigotry of the far right that demonizes all Muslims, and the apologism of the far left that conflates any legitimate criticism of Islam with "bigotry" or "Islamophobia". Many ex-Muslims feel betrayed by their liberal counterparts in the West. The fight against Islamic jihad should come from a position of moral strength, not xenophobic bigotry. This is a fight that liberals should take on themselves before it's hijacked by the far right.

Some of the tweets are:

 

>#ExMuslimBecause I was told I was a Muslim. But then I learned that religion is not a gene and being born to believers doesn't make you one.

>#ExMuslimBecause No REAL God should need protection from bloggers & no REAL prophet should need protection from cartoons.

>#ExMuslimBecause my being unveiled is NOT the cause of earthquakes or other calamities

 

Many of those brave enough to speak out about Islamic apostasy taboos via the hashtag risked threats, intimidation and even violence. Yet the BBC chose to defend Islamists and attack the hashtag as “hateful”, “Islamophobic” and “bad timing” due to the Paris attacks.

The BBC’s program featured presenter Anne-Marie Tomchak talking with two male Muslim “community experts”, almost exclusively about how the hashtag was “problematic” and “hateful”. The words “Ex-Muslim” were put in quotation marks, as if to suggest ex-Muslims did not really exist, and there was little discussion about the bravery of the participants and the positive message behind the campaign. “Community expert” Mobeen Azhar appeared to think that the real victims of the Paris attacks were in fact Muslims.

The presenter also asked Mr. Namazie: “Can you speak is one thing. When you speak is another. And if you look at the recent new events—say for example what happened in Paris, lets look at the refugee crisis around Europe—did it occur to you that this is possibly not the time to put out a hashtag like this?”

Maryam responded by explaining that killings and persecutions have been going on in the Muslim world for centuries, and to view this whole debate through the prism of the recent Paris attack is wrong.

“People are saying #ExMuslimBecause is “hateful”. How can telling people why you left a religion be “hate”? By what bizarrely twisted logic?”, tweeted Richard Dawkins.

To see Islam as the victim in the Allahu-Akbaring of 130 mostly non-Muslim Parisians is vile”, tweeted Canadian ex-Muslim Ali A. Rizvi at the BBC journalist.

 

https://archive.is/NLyAd

https://archive.is/YP2A0

 

 

 

Can't you see it? Maybe you never feel anything because it is not your country and your people who being a victim of western colonization...so you don't know how it feel, you don't know the value...

 

My country just being liberated from British 58 years ago...my people have changed much, some are western oriented, some are nationalist extremist, some are Arabinized Islamic...it is a chaos...because we have lost our identity due to western colonization

 

You don't know how my people begging to work with white masters, treated as slaves and lower beings, you white people dictate on how we should live....you bring in your values, you bring democracy, and your culture...you changed us becoming what we are not...

 

 

 

So now it is your turn...

No you are wrong there, I am a white English person but I was born in Africa so I know a lot about Colonialism 

 

When were your people begging for work?

 

 

Aaaah don't play that game...if you know about colonizations then you know what i am talking about...

 

There used to be a time where my people depend on British almost as if withoout the British we will lost, working with white masters is a guarantee of life...become your servant, your ghurka, polishing your shoes, open the door, carrying your stuff, and say "yes mem...yes sir...", working in your plantations and mines in our land, working in your companies in our own land...this is the life of us Malays under your "western education"...

 

Do not pretend you don't know what you done to indegenious peoples around the world...

 

Yes of course I understand what Colonialism means

 

Sadly I had family member who were involved in Apartheid 

 

And yes Colonialism was a terrible system that mistreated many people. But I'm still not sure what you would like the UK to do now ? If its justice you are after the West has bled and suffered immensely during  WW1 and WW2 

 

But seriously what would you like from the West?

 

 

I just want the west admit your crimes in the past and making an open apology...

 

This is post-liberation Malays...see what you done to us...?

 

 

What i mean is, if you fear your western values gone because of refugees in your country, i say it is "karma"....you will change like you changed us...

Edited December 2, 201510 yr by Qistina

I just want the west admit your crimes in the past and making an open apology...

 

This is post-liberation Malays...see what you done to us...?

 

 

What i mean is, if you fear your western values gone because of refugees in your country, i say it is "karma"....you will change like you changed us...

Nah you were 'conquered' by power which was more evolved, and that power left 60! years ago and you still whine? If you would like return to your origins you can throw that PC you are writing on out of the window and go on rice field, no-one is restricting this to you, that is that bad 'western' value UK left here - freedom. But immigrants to EU are quite opposite, using our good will to destroy something they are unable to achieve themself from jealousy? Or 60 years old grudge? That way czechs would be still killing germans and russians would be throwing A-Bombs on USA now...

No, what i mean is the west never apologize, the west still up to today westernizing all peoples in the world, like i said above, it is not end there, it is continous, we going through a lot of struggles about our own identity, our own value, we don't know ourselves anymore...you see my picture here in the left? This is the new identity of my people...we have no identity anymore...we have lost it, the west took away everything...our wealth, our land, our identity...we become a people with no face....we only assume our face look like what we are now...look at this below...my people are not like this before westernization...the west changed us into this....into your clone...

 

Edited December 2, 201510 yr by Qistina

Your face is same if you wear burka or cylinder. What you cant take is that its not 'west' what influence you, but progress. Do you think that Poles wear same cloths 100 years ago as now? Everyone 'lost' something but you cant blame 'west', whatever you think it is, geez

Your face is same if you wear burka or cylinder. What you cant take is that its not 'west' what influence you, but progress. Do you think that Poles wear same cloths 100 years ago as now? Everyone 'lost' something but you cant blame 'west', whatever you think it is, geez

 

I can blame the west because my country colonized by the west, my people have been fighting the west for about 600 years damn it!

 

The Potuguese Crusaders, the VOC, the East India Company, the Spanish, then the British Imperial....for 600 years!

Edited December 2, 201510 yr by Qistina

 

 

 

 

Can't you see it? Maybe you never feel anything because it is not your country and your people who being a victim of western colonization...so you don't know how it feel, you don't know the value...

 

My country just being liberated from British 58 years ago...my people have changed much, some are western oriented, some are nationalist extremist, some are Arabinized Islamic...it is a chaos...because we have lost our identity due to western colonization

 

You don't know how my people begging to work with white masters, treated as slaves and lower beings, you white people dictate on how we should live....you bring in your values, you bring democracy, and your culture...you changed us becoming what we are not...

 

 

 

So now it is your turn...

No you are wrong there, I am a white English person but I was born in Africa so I know a lot about Colonialism 

 

When were your people begging for work?

 

 

Aaaah don't play that game...if you know about colonizations then you know what i am talking about...

 

There used to be a time where my people depend on British almost as if withoout the British we will lost, working with white masters is a guarantee of life...become your servant, your ghurka, polishing your shoes, open the door, carrying your stuff, and say "yes mem...yes sir...", working in your plantations and mines in our land, working in your companies in our own land...this is the life of us Malays under your "western education"...

 

Do not pretend you don't know what you done to indegenious peoples around the world...

 

Yes of course I understand what Colonialism means

 

Sadly I had family member who were involved in Apartheid 

 

And yes Colonialism was a terrible system that mistreated many people. But I'm still not sure what you would like the UK to do now ? If its justice you are after the West has bled and suffered immensely during  WW1 and WW2 

 

But seriously what would you like from the West?

 

 

I just want the west admit your crimes in the past and making an open apology...

 

This is post-liberation Malays...see what you done to us...?

 

 

What i mean is, if you fear your western values gone because of refugees in your country, i say it is "karma"....you will change like you changed us...

 

Yes I understand this but for reasons of expected reparation the West can't apologize or admit it was wrong in a case of Malaysia 

 

But I'll apologize, sorry. My advice is you don't need an apology to find your identity?

 

Your face is same if you wear burka or cylinder. What you cant take is that its not 'west' what influence you, but progress. Do you think that Poles wear same cloths 100 years ago as now? Everyone 'lost' something but you cant blame 'west', whatever you think it is, geez

 

I can blame the west because my country colonized by the west, my people have been fighting the west for about 600 years damn it!

 

Yeah and what, my country was fighting muslims for 600 years (Turks and Ottomans, then few crusades, some Mongols here and there... cant count everyone). And you were colonised by UK, not west. My state was occupied by russians for 40 years too. Doesnt mean I want all russian peoplo to crumble. And as you states 60 years west dont care about you and you are free to do whatever you want, yet as it seems only think you can do is using 'west' tech to attack it, even tho you can just go back to your roots on rice field, so i dont see your point at all

Your face is same if you wear burka or cylinder. What you cant take is that its not 'west' what influence you, but progress. Do you think that Poles wear same cloths 100 years ago as now? Everyone 'lost' something but you cant blame 'west', whatever you think it is, geez

Chillloutman what she is saying is complicated but also true ....but its hard to understand if you didn't live in country that practiced Colonialism like me

 

I know what she means  

 

 

Your face is same if you wear burka or cylinder. What you cant take is that its not 'west' what influence you, but progress. Do you think that Poles wear same cloths 100 years ago as now? Everyone 'lost' something but you cant blame 'west', whatever you think it is, geez

 

I can blame the west because my country colonized by the west, my people have been fighting the west for about 600 years damn it!

 

Yeah and what, my country was fighting muslims for 600 years (Turks and Ottomans, then few crusades, some Mongols here and there... cant count everyone). And you were colonised by UK, not west. My state was occupied by russians for 40 years too. Doesnt mean I want all russian peoplo to crumble. And as you states 60 years west dont care about you and you are free to do whatever you want, yet as it seems only think you can do is using 'west' tech to attack it, even tho you can just go back to your roots on rice field, so i dont see your point at all

 

 

My country is a creation after WW2, before that Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Philipine never exist...it was Empire of Melaka and Malay city states before the west ruin everything. We never fight anyone, we don't care about the world outside SEA...but the west come...like i mentioned Portuguese Crusaders, VOC, EIC, Spain, British Imperial....you change us all in SEA into what we become today

 

Your face is same if you wear burka or cylinder. What you cant take is that its not 'west' what influence you, but progress. Do you think that Poles wear same cloths 100 years ago as now? Everyone 'lost' something but you cant blame 'west', whatever you think it is, geez

Chillloutman what she is saying is complicated but also true ....but its hard to understand if you didn't live in country that practiced Colonialism like me

 

I know what she means

 

I live in country that was 40 years under communist regime of different state, we get out in 1990 from it, I think I know what I am talking about

 

 

 

Your face is same if you wear burka or cylinder. What you cant take is that its not 'west' what influence you, but progress. Do you think that Poles wear same cloths 100 years ago as now? Everyone 'lost' something but you cant blame 'west', whatever you think it is, geez

 

I can blame the west because my country colonized by the west, my people have been fighting the west for about 600 years damn it!

 

Yeah and what, my country was fighting muslims for 600 years (Turks and Ottomans, then few crusades, some Mongols here and there... cant count everyone). And you were colonised by UK, not west. My state was occupied by russians for 40 years too. Doesnt mean I want all russian peoplo to crumble. And as you states 60 years west dont care about you and you are free to do whatever you want, yet as it seems only think you can do is using 'west' tech to attack it, even tho you can just go back to your roots on rice field, so i dont see your point at all

 

 

My country is a creation after WW2, before that Malaysia, Indonesia, Singapore, Philipine never exist...it was Empire of Melaka and Malay city states before the west ruin everything. We never fight anyone, we don't care about the world outside SEA...but the west come...like i mentioned Portuguese Crusaders, VOC, EIC, Spain, British Imperial....you change us all in SEA into what we become today

 

My country was created after WW1, before we were Austria-Humngaria. We never fought aggresive war, we only defend against Ottoman raids. Then we were occupied by Nazis and then by Russian commies. Bring on something heavier. Still cant cry for your 60 years of freedom

When i say "my people" this Malays, i don't mean Malaya or Malaysia, i mean the whole original SEA people....we called ourselves "Nusantara"...you know what is Nusantara? That is what you called "South East Asia". We are one people no longer...for 600 years the west divide and conquer us...like what you did to American natives....

 

This is Nusantara...

 

Edited December 2, 201510 yr by Qistina

 

 

Your face is same if you wear burka or cylinder. What you cant take is that its not 'west' what influence you, but progress. Do you think that Poles wear same cloths 100 years ago as now? Everyone 'lost' something but you cant blame 'west', whatever you think it is, geez

Chillloutman what she is saying is complicated but also true ....but its hard to understand if you didn't live in country that practiced Colonialism like me

 

I know what she means

 

I live in country that was 40 years under communist regime of different state, we get out in 1990 from it, I think I know what I am talking about

 

No its not the same 

 

I'll try to explain because I can see how you may think it is

 

Colonialism stripped people of any identity or feeling of purpose. It was also implemented initially against nations that were living very simple but happy lives

 

Communism was forced on you and it was terrible but it was suppose to be about equality ... it was not a reality where you were treated as not even human 

When i say "my people" this Malays, i don't mean Malaya or Malaysia, i mean the whole original SEA people....we called ourselves "Nusantara"...you know what is Nusantara? That is what you called "South East Asia". We are one people no longer...for 600 years the west divide and conquer us...like what you did to American natives....

Yeah nations are created and divided. We were part of HRE, then Austria-Hungaria, then SSSR - choose what you like.

 

Well I can do it for you:

 

Ohh those evil Islamists. We were part of our beutifull HRE and then Ottomans come and break it and now I am no longer HRE, bee, I want to be citizen on HRE again, evil Ottomans bee