[2.03] Soulbound Weapons are Weak

[theBalthazar]

After many test, in variable configurations. I think i can confirm :

 

Soulbound weapons are less powerfull (by far) than others !

 

This is not a direct problem but the most can not even reach the level of other weapons.

 

This is a problem especially for their prestige. A weapon forged with white forge worth so much more.

 

For the balancing, the soulbound weapons must be more powerfull. / improvable with white Forge.

 

10 % of paralysis is too uncertain. Too hazardous. We can not count on.

 

The only exception is Stormcaller who have a satisfaying level But in reality not even :

 

Lenas Er :

3 RD bypass.

- 5 on all defenses

+25 % electric damage.

+15 % speed attack (white forge)

+30 % damage on critics. (White forge)

+20 % of hit transfo in critics. (White forge)

 

= Best damage. The only exception is the very high RD of piercing damage or piercing immunity.

 

Stormcaller :

6 RD bypass.

+20 % electric damage (talent)

 

Yes, i don't take the 5 % - 10 % of all little talents. This is not interresting. Return of the storm is cancel by the storm of my druid (power level 5) for exemple...

 

Even the best soulbound is exceeded... The prestige relative to these weapons , takes a hit .

 

If everyone starts to actually calculate, nobody will never use these weapons. ( a shame )

 

Its not a bug but a serious problem of balancing.

Edited November 13, 2015 by theBalthazar

[Achilles]

I respectfully disagree with most of this.

 

The one area where we are in complete agreement is Stormcaller. Sagani is currently built around Persistence as a DoT beast. 1) I can't find any reason to swap out for Stormcaller and 2) if I did, it would mostly invalidate her current build. If Stormcaller had a something that did DoT (ala Wounding on Persistence), then I would feel like I found an awesome artifact.

 

Aside from that one very minor beef, I feel the soulbound weapons are great.

 

EDIT: Would be interested in seeing if shock damage applied from normal use and/or Crackling Bolt added to a cipher's Focus.

Edited November 13, 2015 by Achilles

[SamHam]

I'll agree that you can find weapons with better raw damage potential, seeing as how you can improve them to +12 accuracy and +45 dmg, 25% elemental damage and +15% attack speed (some also having +50crit dmg). But they're not NEARLY as versatile and awesomely creative as the solbound weapons. Having the option to improve them with the white forge would be fun, don't get me wrong, but it's not like you feel underpowered at high levels, pretty much just butchering enemies left and right.
If there's a gripe, then it's this: There's too few souldbound weapons :D

Edited November 13, 2015 by SamHam

[theBalthazar]

Achilles :

 

With Superb quality, all of soulbound can be "great", its certain.

 

But the real question is : better ou lower than the others weapons.

 

With superb quality + white forge enchant, the standard unique weapons are better.

 

Grey sleeper

 

• 10% chance to cast  Paralyse on Hit or Critical Hit.
• 2 powers on hit that come very rarely. (5 %...)
• A great power named Slow spirit but "by rest".

 

Blade of the Endless Path

 

• +35 % Attack Speed
• Marking: +10 Accuracy granted to an ally attacking the same target
• +30 % damage with critics.
• 20 % of hits transfo in critics.

 

In the end game , no need to slow down the enemy, we are enough effective. So the second weapon is far far ahead... Paralysis is effectively "sexy", but rather rarely triggers . (10%)

Edited November 13, 2015 by theBalthazar

[Elric Galad]

On the one hand, I would say Durgan steel has an opportunity cost. You have maximum 10 Durgan steels. If you use 6 for armors, you have only 4 left for weapons. If you use 2 for Lenas Er, you sacrifice something unless playing with reduced party.

I don't get why returning storm would be canceled by druid relentless'. For me it is a separate effect that deals a lot of damage. I tend to feel Stormcaller more versatile than Lenas, and slighly more powerful (6DR is huge) WITHOUT Durgan steel. With Durgan steel, Lenas is probably better.

 

On the other hand, I would say that there is not a single reason not to be able to enchant soulbound weapons with durgan steel too...

[Achilles]

I guess I'm looking at it differently. Ostensibly, you're only going to be able to apply Durgan-Reinfocement to a handful of items. Having a selection of soulbound weapons frees up that limited resource. For example, I can add the white forge enchantment to Tidefall for an amazing weapon...or I can just give Pallegina St. Ydwen's Redeemer and enchant her armor instead. To me the latter sounds like a no-brainer.

 

Ideally, you're going to have somewhere between 7-10 ingots and 10-12 companions (for a party of 13 including your player and more if you have hirelings). Even in the best case scenario of 10 ingots, not everybody is going to get one. Hand out 5 soulbound weapons and now you have 7-10 ingots for 8 weapons or pieces of armor.

 

EDIT: Looks like Elric and I were on the same page

Edited November 13, 2015 by Achilles

[Elric Galad]

Well it depends also on party composition. If you have 3 casters (I will never sacrifice Durgan for caster weapon) and 2 1-hander, then you have enough Durgan.

 

But in most case, Durgan save does matter.

[theBalthazar]

Without white forge, we take this hypothesis. The gap is narrowing indeed.

 

BUT^^ I prefer a stable bonus of +20 % of Speed and +10 accuracy for my allie (stable also) rather than a 10 % or 5 % of a side-effects which rarely appear. For the paralysis, the new power of magician is excellent and deal damage. (great novelty that these powers in passing. I like them, its a great and surprisingly idea)

 

Its a real choice between the two, even without the forge !^^ (according to me of course)

 

If in addition , there is the white forge, the weapon is far ahead, that's a fact.

Edited November 13, 2015 by theBalthazar

[Achilles]

Yeah, at this point it sounds like we're talking about preferences. I think any time a new game mechanic is added, there is an opportunity to skew the balance of some items. For the most part, I think Obsidian got it right here.

 

@Elric: I agree. I was using a simple "nose count" for the purpose of the example. It's looking like my PC is going to take up 3 of the 7 ingots I got. Eder gets 2 (armor and weapon), Pallegina gets 1 (armor), and Kana will probably get the last 1. If my PC only takes 2, then I'll probably use the "extra" on Devil's armor. 

Edited November 13, 2015 by Achilles

[AndreaColombo]

Personally, I think soulbound weapon are generally pretty good. I like how they are powerful without necessarily being the no-brainer most powerful weapon of their kind.

 

Stormcaller is, in my opinion, one of the strongest. Lenas Er is great but applying 6 Shock DR reduction with every hit is massive when you're dealing Pierce/Shock damage (and most enemies don't have great Shock DR to begin with.) The proc are bonus (the Ranger proc is the best, but I usually give the bow to my Cipher.) If you take Heart of the Storm, you get +20% damage to every attack as well as to the proc, which is great synergy.

 

It is true that Durgan Steel is extremely good. Tidefall is already better than St. Ydwen's Redeemer without, and becomes no-brainer-grade better with it (except against Vessels, of course, as that's where St. Ydwen's Redeemer is the best weapon in the game.) If the Redeemer's proc chance was increased to, say, 15% I guess that would help close the gap (the proc on Redeemer are pretty good.)

 

The Greenstone Staff is rather good when given to a Monk, but ... well, Monks tend to use their fists most of all, right? And they switch to something else when they're faced with enemies that are either immune or highly resistant to Crush damage, which is what their fists deal. Now, what damage type does their soulbound weapon deal? Crush. Well, then. Why should I ever use a slower two-hander with my Monk when I can use my fists instead? I rather value the speed, which enables my Monk to wear heavy armor, and wouldn't give it up for the Nature's Mark proc. If the staff was given another damage type, like Crush/Slash or something, it would be much more appealing. Then again, justifying it in-game would be tricky (it's only obvious that staffs would deal Crush damage.)

 

The Grey Sleeper is good, but could be better. The 10% paralysis is great, and the 5% Twin Stones is nice although very rare. What strikes me as out of place is the 5% evoke Vessels: While cool on paper, it is completely useless by the time you get the Estoc. Every enemy you face from that point on is going to be much more powerful than the Vessels the Estoc evokes, to the point enemies will mostly ignore them too (so they're not even good as fodder.) I'd rather have 10% Twin Stones, then.

 

 

Nightshroud is OK, I guess. I don't play Rogues and I have no use for it on my Priest, so I can't really comment on it.

[theBalthazar]

For the most part, I think Obsidian got it right here.

 

 

it all depends where you want to put these weapons in terms of power.

 

When Obsidian announced , I expected slightly more powerful weapons and unique than conventional weapons.

 

They are more original, yes. But on side of the power... nope^^

 

I love Stormcaller wich is the only good soulbound, but the rest is very bad.

Moreover, it is limited to three class (except one), so very restrictive on use. It must have the good class + the good talent for use the soulbound in the best conditions.

 

Finally, these weapons are less powerful than the other . They are similar to bonuses via a Russian roulette (5 % ... 10 % ... Mouai...). This is quite disappointing . They are supposed to have style and be on top . We need to train with to discover their full potential. And in the end it is worse ?

 

Even if there is no improvements of white forge, there is debate.

 

But with, they are largely exceeded. We are all agree with this ?

 

Still, I think Obsidian thought them as weapons "gold" , that stands out. That 's why I find it deceptive . If we are honest, they are inferior to others .

 

It's like in Diablo II, the unique weapons that were less powerful magic weapons base ^^!

Edited November 13, 2015 by theBalthazar

[Achilles]

Yeah, at this point it sounds like we're talking about preferences.