Most overpowered builds post patch 2.02

[KDubya]

I see 60-70 damage per hit with 95 on a crit, all with deathblows active. With higher DR than Thaos the Monk would be taking less damage, more like 50-60 per hit, 85 on a crit. To get deathblows or even to just get sneak attack bonus you need to get past either a 122 fortitude or a 94 reflex both of which are higher than the Rogues accuracy.

 

Also the Rogue in the screen shots is fully buffed. I'd assume that PvP would be no potions, scrolls, summons, food, resting bonus or prostitutes.

 

There won't be any summons to set up flanking or to take the hits. The Monk will be striking faster with his fists than you will be with sabres and will have near double the endurance.

 

All of this is not considering the monk summoning the Twins or just hitting you once with a Force of Anguish that puts you prone for ten seconds.

 

Even spotting you 200 points of damage to start the fight the Monk just needs one action to summon two 280 endurance monsters that will surround, flank and beat on the Rogue.

 

I don't think it will be as one sided as you seem to imagine it.

 

 

 

I brought up the Paladin into the PvP discussion based on the strength of the heals from LoH. Instead of just needing to overcome his 220 or so endurance you also have two 200+ heals. The Paladin would effectively have up to 600 endurance. Factor in his Sacred Immolation burning and he can stand there healing himself while you burn.

[Njall]

Also, if you're assuming magic items, both characters will probably sport a second chance item. Unfortunately for the rogue, this means that the monk gets a chance to retaliate  ( and knock the rogue on his ass with FoA ) pretty much every time, regardless of how hard the rogue hits.

Still, PoE isn't really tuned for PvP.

If I had to duel, though, I'd choose a tank (likely a paladin). That 130-140 deflection is pretty hard to hit without party buffs.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Njall

[Boeroer]

Why would you usw Wuthering Strikte first and not open up the fight with Spreading Plague from Rotfinger Gloves? This would cause two afflictions that trigger Deathblows and you can cast it from range plus it has bonus accuracy. Also I would then shoot the monk with blinding strike and then I would go melee. But even then I think the monk would win most of the time because he just needs to land one Force of Anguish and the rogue is done. 10 seconds of prone are really powerful. Maybe the cloak of the Master Mystic could turn the Tides?

 

Talking about PvP: I think a ranger with stormcaller, Ryona's Vembraces, a tanky pet and stunning shots would be hard to beat. How do you want to reach it except invisibility?

[AndreaColombo]

Josh - if you are reading this please, for the love of all that is good, make a high-level Chanter ability called "Wuthering Strike" in TWM pt. II.

 

It's the ultimate literary pun.

Edited October 30, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Boeroer]

Roflmao - I curse you, smartphone keyboard! *shake fist*

[Parasol_Syndicate]

This thread makes me wish they had left One Stands Alone, er, alone. 

[AndreaColombo]

But wouldn't your Lady of Pain be even more powerful if it were a monk?

 

Likely.

 

After years disliking Monks on the base of their (A)D&D implementation, playing Zahua as the Juggernaut opened my eyes to how good (and, above all, how much fun) they are in PoE. Indeed, I've been toying with the idea of making a cross-over Juggernaut of Pain build to see how much of an AWESOMESAUCE button it would turn out to be. Then again, if I combined both builds into a single character, I'd have one less interesting build in my party

 

Honestly, the things that keep me anchored to the Fighter class for my build are mostly these:

 

• Generally speaking, I prefer flat bonuses that stay on all the time to bonuses that only last for a given amount of time. Case in point: Swift Strikes takes wounds to activate and has a set duration that is generally insufficient for a whole fight, so you need to spend time reactivating it; it also doesn't stack with Frenzy or Deleterious Alacrity of Motion. Armored Grace is always on and stacks with DAoM.
• I like big numbers in my character sheet (yes, I know it's stupid) and I prefer consistent damage output to spike damage output (this is also a reason why Rogues don't really click with me, despite being pretty good in PoE.) Fighters have access to specialization chains that grant damage bonuses that stay on all the time; Monk abilities like Lightning Strikes or Turning Wheel either have a limited duration, or require you to have wounds. With this I'm not saying Monks are bad, worse than Fighters, or that their abilities are in short supply and can't be spammed or used to a good extent in combat; I'm merely stating my preference for stuff that doesn't require an activation and doesn't expire.

Edited October 30, 2015 by AndreaColombo

[Boeroer]

I see. And I would like to add that a fighter requires way less micro than a monk. Next run I want to go with a two handed fighter - the new Armored Grace looks good and all the reading about 15 frames of recovery waters my mouth. Maybe I will add a chanter for wuthering strikes...

[brindle88]

I see 60-70 damage per hit with 95 on a crit, all with deathblows active. With higher DR than Thaos the Monk would be taking less damage, more like 50-60 per hit, 85 on a crit. To get deathblows or even to just get sneak attack bonus you need to get past either a 122 fortitude or a 94 reflex both of which are higher than the Rogues accuracy.

 

Also the Rogue in the screen shots is fully buffed. I'd assume that PvP would be no potions, scrolls, summons, food, resting bonus or prostitutes.

 

There won't be any summons to set up flanking or to take the hits. The Monk will be striking faster with his fists than you will be with sabres and will have near double the endurance.

 

All of this is not considering the monk summoning the Twins or just hitting you once with a Force of Anguish that puts you prone for ten seconds.

 

Even spotting you 200 points of damage to start the fight the Monk just needs one action to summon two 280 endurance monsters that will surround, flank and beat on the Rogue.

 

I don't think it will be as one sided as you seem to imagine it.

 

 

 

I brought up the Paladin into the PvP discussion based on the strength of the heals from LoH. Instead of just needing to overcome his 220 or so endurance you also have two 200+ heals. The Paladin would effectively have up to 600 endurance. Factor in his Sacred Immolation burning and he can stand there healing himself while you burn.

The DEATHBLOWS bill be activated straight away with the rot finger gloves as per boerer suggestion, then 4 shots all DEATHBLOWS activated then once you summon twins who's to say I simply Say I just run of screen untill they disappear. Thaos obvisouly would have high fort, will and I can't remember the last time my rogue never landed a blinding strike or it's equivalent as they have an increased accuracy and the rogue will have the highest accuracy in the game so this will negate your monks defences. The affliction strikes from rogues ALLWAYS land. And I have a compete immunty button with invis to use at any time.

 

I also have the option of punishing you with a firearm from range adding crippling afflictions that willl slow your move speed.

 

There are more options there but I'm still confident I would kill you instantly as per the op did to thaos. He only landed one crit remember, crits also increase duration of afflictions by 50%, if I landed a crit with the opening fearsome strike or blind you dead. You are also over looking blind, this will basically disable you from being able to hit me, just like my invis

[brindle88]

 

I see 60-70 damage per hit with 95 on a crit, all with deathblows active. With higher DR than Thaos the Monk would be taking less damage, more like 50-60 per hit, 85 on a crit. To get deathblows or even to just get sneak attack bonus you need to get past either a 122 fortitude or a 94 reflex both of which are higher than the Rogues accuracy.

 

Also the Rogue in the screen shots is fully buffed. I'd assume that PvP would be no potions, scrolls, summons, food, resting bonus or prostitutes.

 

There won't be any summons to set up flanking or to take the hits. The Monk will be striking faster with his fists than you will be with sabres and will have near double the endurance.

 

All of this is not considering the monk summoning the Twins or just hitting you once with a Force of Anguish that puts you prone for ten seconds.

 

Even spotting you 200 points of damage to start the fight the Monk just needs one action to summon two 280 endurance monsters that will surround, flank and beat on the Rogue.

 

I don't think it will be as one sided as you seem to imagine it.

 

 

 

I brought up the Paladin into the PvP discussion based on the strength of the heals from LoH. Instead of just needing to overcome his 220 or so endurance you also have two 200+ heals. The Paladin would effectively have up to 600 endurance. Factor in his Sacred Immolation burning and he can stand there healing himself while you burn.

The DEATHBLOWS bill be activated straight away with the rot finger gloves as per boerer suggestion, then 4 shots all DEATHBLOWS activated then once you summon twins who's to say I simply Say I just run of screen untill they disappear. Thaos obvisouly would have high fort, will and I can't remember the last time my rogue never landed a blinding strike or it's equivalent as they have an increased accuracy and the rogue will have the highest accuracy in the game so this will negate your monks defences. The affliction strikes from rogues ALLWAYS land. And I have a compete immunty button with invis to use at any time.

I also have the option of punishing you with a firearm from range adding crippling afflictions that willl slow your move speed.

There are more options there but I'm still confident I would kill you instantly as per the op did to thaos. He only landed one crit remember, crits also increase duration of afflictions by 50%, if I landed a crit with the opening fearsome strike or blind you dead. You are also over looking blind, this will basically disable you from being able to hit me, just like my invis

One thing we have missed is that your monk would more then likely be bettered by a wizard in one on one combat. Your monk does not have invisibility, therefore no ability to to get up close to the wizard and inniate melee without copping a high level spell first. You would be petrified then chain cast with alacrity fireballs (fast speed cast spell) plus the alacrity. This is something the rogue can avoid you can't

[Livegood118]

Just wanted to chime in here and give the Barbarian an honourable mention.

 

With stats allocated as follows:

 

Might: 18

Con: 10

Dex: 10

Int: 18

Per: 14

Resolve: 8

 

and with Frenzy (33%), Bloodlust (20%), a Durgan Enhanced Tidefall (15% or 20% can't remember) and the recovery penalty gloves (15%) with Durgan enhanced robes (Gwisk Glas is good) you can easily reduce base weapon recovery by nearly 70%-90% which means with a Dex bonus added in (let's say with the +3 dex ring) you'll end up completely whacking your opponents in a large AOE almost once a second. More speed can obviously be achieved through other means (e.g. hastening exhortation, potions of power) though bear in mind the cap is 100%.

 

Tidefall has the draining property which means as long as your dude is attacking more than 3 mobs at once and isn't being disabled he will be golden. For more mobs maybe throw on the lvl1 priest spell holy radiance to prevent interrupts or lay down crowd control.

 

Other builds have used Firebrand for this kind of approach but I don't think that's as valuable any more because (a) Firebrand now targets deflection rather than reflexes and (b) you lose a lot of accuracy by using Firebrand (The weapon itself and potentially your glove slot depending on what kind of support you have). Better to have tidefall for survivability imo.

 

I don't think any class can't match the Barbarians sustained AOE DPS - Wizards, Druids and Priests included.

Edited October 30, 2015 by Livegood118

[Boeroer]

When it comes to monk vs. wizard I also would bet on wizard.

[brindle88]

When it comes to monk vs. wizard I also would bet on wizard.

I agree, actually I'm 99% certain.

 

So I think it's fair to say that in terms of most overpowered build 1 vs 1

 

A wizard will beat the juaggernaught monk.

 

A wizard will be able to beat all classes except a rogue who can activate invisibility, there fore evading spells and being able to position to be able to take the wizard down in melee.

 

This will make the rogue then winner in a all vs all class combat.

 

The wizard may........be able to defeat the rogue with that contingency that activates when it reaches below 50% endurance and knocks everyone prone around it. Unfortunately at the moment we can't try this out as the game won't allow pvp combat.

[brindle88]

 

When it comes to monk vs. wizard I also would bet on wizard.

I agree, actually I'm 99% certain.

So I think it's fair to say that in terms of most overpowered build 1 vs 1

A wizard will beat the juaggernaught monk.

A wizard will be able to beat all classes except a rogue who can activate invisibility, there fore evading spells and being able to position to be able to take the wizard down in melee.

This will make the rogue then winner in a all vs all class combat.

The wizard may........be able to defeat the rogue with that contingency that activates when it reaches below 50% endurance and knocks everyone prone around it. Unfortunately at the moment we can't try this out as the game won't allow pvp combat.

The contingencies and spell triggers really are what differentiates wizards from all other classes in traditional d&d and what makes them so powerful. Pillars hasn't really touched on this matter yet.

[KDubya]

It would depend on the geometry of the arena and at what range combat is initiated.

 

Are you at 10 meters or are you at 2? Are you out of visual range and can activate stealth? Are you in combat mode right at the start which would allow buffing or are you out of combat mode until you visually spot one another?

 

Again I'd bring up the Monk's walking around, not optimized gear or talents, 122 Fortitude. Go ahead with Rotfingers, petrify whatever spell or affliction you want, overcoming that is not going to be simple. Remember there is no team stacking debuffs before you land the big crowd control ability. If you spend time trying to debuff, which still has to bypass defenses, it leaves you open to an affliction attack or even just a normal attack. Also the Monk has Crucible of Suffering which boosts defenses by ten after the first attack.

 

A Wizard is godly against the AI but I think you are overstating its potential in PvP. There are not any auto hit Missile strikes like DnD has, everything has to overcome a defense and Wizards have low base accuracy. Plus all defensive buffs need to be cast in combat.

 

In PoE really high defenses are really powerful, and both Rogues and Wizards have no bonuses to defenses that Monks and Paladins innately have. The Wizard has spells and Arcane Veil but they both take time to set up. No one is going to give the Wizard time to buff, and without buffs the Wizard is vulnerable to attacks and at a big disadvantage trying to penetrate high defenses.

[brindle88]

It would depend on the geometry of the arena and at what range combat is initiated.

 

Are you at 10 meters or are you at 2? Are you out of visual range and can activate stealth? Are you in combat mode right at the start which would allow buffing or are you out of combat mode until you visually spot one another?

 

Again I'd bring up the Monk's walking around, not optimized gear or talents, 122 Fortitude. Go ahead with Rotfingers, petrify whatever spell or affliction you want, overcoming that is not going to be simple. Remember there is no team stacking debuffs before you land the big crowd control ability. If you spend time trying to debuff, which still has to bypass defenses, it leaves you open to an affliction attack or even just a normal attack. Also the Monk has Crucible of Suffering which boosts defenses by ten after the first attack.

 

A Wizard is godly against the AI but I think you are overstating its potential in PvP. There are not any auto hit Missile strikes like DnD has, everything has to overcome a defense and Wizards have low base accuracy. Plus all defensive buffs need to be cast in combat.

 

In PoE really high defenses are really powerful, and both Rogues and Wizards have no bonuses to defenses that Monks and Paladins innately have. The Wizard has spells and Arcane Veil but they both take time to set up. No one is going to give the Wizard time to buff, and without buffs the Wizard is vulnerable to attacks and at a big disadvantage trying to penetrate high defenses.

 

Of course you would not start a fight 2 meteres away from each other.

 

The rot fingers cause afflictions that are not affected by any defence

 

I also just noticed that you where the op for the juggernaught monk, hence why you have such a bond with it and are defending it so much.

 

I have started a new play through today, and am using your build the monk. I have already started and tbh I think you are over rating it. It's human nature to be proud of something you created but you need to listen to reason and open your mind a little bit.

 

Just like I have by playing your monk:)

[brindle88]

 

It would depend on the geometry of the arena and at what range combat is initiated.

 

Are you at 10 meters or are you at 2? Are you out of visual range and can activate stealth? Are you in combat mode right at the start which would allow buffing or are you out of combat mode until you visually spot one another?

 

Again I'd bring up the Monk's walking around, not optimized gear or talents, 122 Fortitude. Go ahead with Rotfingers, petrify whatever spell or affliction you want, overcoming that is not going to be simple. Remember there is no team stacking debuffs before you land the big crowd control ability. If you spend time trying to debuff, which still has to bypass defenses, it leaves you open to an affliction attack or even just a normal attack. Also the Monk has Crucible of Suffering which boosts defenses by ten after the first attack.

 

A Wizard is godly against the AI but I think you are overstating its potential in PvP. There are not any auto hit Missile strikes like DnD has, everything has to overcome a defense and Wizards have low base accuracy. Plus all defensive buffs need to be cast in combat.

 

In PoE really high defenses are really powerful, and both Rogues and Wizards have no bonuses to defenses that Monks and Paladins innately have. The Wizard has spells and Arcane Veil but they both take time to set up. No one is going to give the Wizard time to buff, and without buffs the Wizard is vulnerable to attacks and at a big disadvantage trying to penetrate high defenses.

Of course you would not start a fight 2 meteres away from each other.

The rot fingers cause afflictions that are not affected by any defence

I also just noticed that you where the op for the juggernaught monk, hence why you have such a bond with it and are defending it so much.

I have started a new play through today, and am using your build the monk. I have already started and tbh I think you are over rating it. It's human nature to be proud of something you created but you need to listen to reason and open your mind a little bit.

Just like I have by playing your monk:)

And your completely ignoring that contingency I mentioned, it's a level 5 wizard spell called llengraths safeguard, have a look at it. This would give the wizard two guaranteed chances of landing spells at you, once at the opening of combat and once after this contingency has activated, man if you reply back and say that your monk could survive 2 shots of either a petrify or a crushing doom I'm going to stop posting to this cause your just being way to ignorant

[KDubya]

It sounds like Rotfingers needs to be fixed then. Everything else has an attack versus a corresponding defense, there should not be an exception to that basic rule.

 

The melee guy would prefer starting at 2 meters instead of at ten If you start out of visual range you could activate stealth which would let you close the distance a bunch before spotted. Again it would depend on how the arena is set up.

 

The Juggernaut build does not really start to take off until you get the Shod in Faith boots and then Modality and Crucible of Suffering for the defenses.

 

I do wish that there was an arena where various builds could be put into combat against each other. Until then the best we have is our Theorycrafting. Concerning the Rogue versus Wizard I think the Rogue would win due to its large offensive burst capability and the Wizards low endurance and need to buff.

[dudex]

game isnt made for pvp. there are no invisible enemies so there is no stealth detection mechanic. using invisibility as the rogue's trump card is plain stupid to be honest since there are no skills made to counter it because enemies dont use it.

 

every class can just stay stealth indefinably if there is a pvp fight. No characters would start a fight unstealthed and no one would break stealth because they cant find each other leading to a stalemate 100% of the time.

Edited October 31, 2015 by dudex

[brindle88]

game isnt made for pvp. there are no invisible enemies so there is no stealth detection mechanic. using invisibility as the rogue's trump card is plain stupid to be honest since there are no skills made to counter it because enemies dont use it.

 

every class can just stay stealth indefinably if there is a pvp fight. No characters would start a fight unstealthed and no one would break stealth because they cant find each other leading to a stalemate 100% of the time.

mate we have all acknowledged the game isn't made for pvp read the entire thread.

 

And where not talking about stealth where talking about the rogue ability shadowing beyond

[KDubya]

I'd assume that detecting stealth would be the same as it works with enemies now. At a certain range the circle fills up yellow and then fills in red after which you are seen.

 

Another possibility would be to start at the limits of visual range. This way there'd be no using stealth at all. Rogue could still go invisible, but they can only do that once and it has a duration. At the start the Rogue goes invisible and you run around for ten seconds to outlast the invisibility or just take the Rogues alpha strike and fight back.

 

I still believe that having really high defenses and a self heal would be really useful in PoE PvP. There won't be Priest buffs or Scrolls of Valor or Potions of Eldritch Aim, all you'd have is your base accuracy and whatever you got from your weapons and equipment. Deflection and defenses would be much higher and would result in more misses and grazes.

[brindle88]

I'd assume that detecting stealth would be the same as it works with enemies now. At a certain range the circle fills up yellow and then fills in red after which you are seen.

 

Another possibility would be to start at the limits of visual range. This way there'd be no using stealth at all. Rogue could still go invisible, but they can only do that once and it has a duration. At the start the Rogue goes invisible and you run around for ten seconds to outlast the invisibility or just take the Rogues alpha strike and fight back.

 

I still believe that having really high defenses and a self heal would be really useful in PoE PvP. There won't be Priest buffs or Scrolls of Valor or Potions of Eldritch Aim, all you'd have is your base accuracy and whatever you got from your weapons and equipment. Deflection and defenses would be much higher and would result in more misses and grazes.

mate I tried playing your monk, after playing it for a bit came to the conclusion that I just don't enjoy playing monks. I just find there play style really boring and not fun at all. Weapon and item selection is not really optimized for them so that takes the fun out of collecting loot, I do realize you still can use items on them but most of there abilities aren't optimized for this. I also feel as though they fill into the cliché "budda" type monk, in a robe etc. not really a cool class and not as fulfilling as playing a magic user or strong weapon user.  

 

The last point I raised, using weapons and magic is generally why I play these games, monks still do this to a certain degree but not to the full effect. I find them incredibly boring.

 

Having said that they may be a strong build 1v1 but I would consider rogues and fighters (especially after latest patch) to be stronger.

 

Anyway im done with this thread. maybe im biased because I find them boring like I said.

 

By all I need to get back to the real world haha

[Boeroer]

Heh? My experiences with monks are totally different. Why on earth wouldn't you use weapons? All his abilities work with melee weapons. He hits superhard, he has awesome defenses, his starting stats (deflection, endurance, ACC and so on) are the best in the game, he moves fast and does cc, he has two elemental buddies.

One of the most fun melee class there is in my opinion. Lot of micro though.

[aweigh0101]

invisible rogue counting on alpha-backstab... ok, let's see here:

clueless Fighter suddenly gets backstabbed by de-stealthing rogue, combat initiates, let's assume the absolute worst-case scenario that the alpha-stab killed him, so Unbroken activates and Fighter immediately gets back up with 125~ish endurance and boosted stats.

fighter knocks rogue prone. activates Unbending.

fighter lands sundering blow on prone rogue. 

fighter keeps rogue prone, while regenerating endurance from his recovery And Unbending.

Unbroken is guaranteed resurrection with better stat boosts than frenzy, and Unbending is capable of staving off death even if the blow would reduce endurance to zero while it lasts.

the only way the fighter loses is if his 1st knockdown misses.

EDIT: remember the fighter has Critical Defense, and unbending has 3 uses per rest. unbroken revives him with +5 DR, 100+ endurance and +10 to all defenses including deflection and lasts for a full base 15 seconds. the casting time on Unbending, the damage-into-healing ability, is "Instant". 

seriously, don't you guys remember how ridiculous enemy fighters are on PotD? the Eothesian Warden fighter bounty that you fight in the Easternwood graveyard is hilariously hard to kill. Sure, he can't do anything once you're focusing on him and killed off his buddies, but it's pretty funny how much concentrated whaling is required to make the dude go down lol.

the fighters in cragholdt bluffs are another prime example. unless you focus them they just WILL NOT GO DOWN ! on the flip side, you fight tons of enemy rogues throughout the campaign, but in the cragholdt map the most numerous enemies are casters and fighter/monks. i think that says it all concerning who are the top dogs in imaginary pvp.

Edited October 31, 2015 by aweigh0101

[brindle88]

invisible rogue counting on alpha-backstab... ok, let's see here:

 

clueless Fighter suddenly gets backstabbed by de-stealthing rogue, combat initiates, let's assume the absolute worst-case scenario that the alpha-stab killed him, so Unbroken activates and Fighter immediately gets back up with 125~ish endurance and boosted stats.

 

fighter knocks rogue prone. activates Unbending.

 

fighter lands sundering blow on prone rogue. 

 

fighter keeps rogue prone, while regenerating endurance from his recovery And Unbending.

 

Unbroken is guaranteed resurrection with better stat boosts than frenzy, and Unbending is capable of staving off death even if the blow would reduce endurance to zero while it lasts.

 

the only way the fighter loses is if his 1st knockdown misses.

yeah I found them incredibly strong to,  check my OP.

 

I think a case is building for a pvsp combat, untll then we will never no

 

you can make a case for just about every build.

 

In PVSP saves would be a big deal, there is still a fair amount of luck to what happens in this game.

 

I think overall there is no strongest build, only classes that perform different roles. This is what obsidian where after IMO and they succeeded