Most overpowered builds post patch 2.02

[Cantousent]

Actually, reading the posts from home, I can see that it's been a heated debate, but no name calling. That's a plus. Folks get invested in these arguments, and heated exchanges are part of the fun, but don't let one argument (especially class, which is a lightning rod for heated debate) turn into a vendetta. If it's getting too hot, take a breather. Be a happy warrior. Just a quick thought. Other than that, I see that the arguments are far too involved for me to address from a 'member' standpoint and I can't see anything really bad anyone's done. So, I guess I'll pop back out and let you guys keep fighting the good fight. Very interesting exchange to me, and I have no stake in this debate.

[Gairnulf]

It's not my point to prove that the Barbarian is weak. I think playing the game proves this by itself. I'm interested if anyone can prove me wrong.

 

Go ahead, tell me your viable Barbarian build. I don't see it? Post the videos of how you fight and win as a level 3-5 barbarian. I want to see how effective your build is in combat.

 

But none of this will be posted or shown of course.

[Zenbane]

 

Can you please cite what your argument is then?

Mate the more we reply back to them the more they crap on. Enough has been posted on here for people to read.

 

They no barbs are inferior to fighters and rogues, everyone nows. They are just arguing for the sake of arguing and it's getting pathetic. People will be able to tell that by reading there posts.

 

People can also read where a Developer came in and completely countered your argument against Barbs, proving that Barb's are not inferior. The only one "arguing for the sake of arguing" is you. The only person really backing you up is Gairnulf, which should be a strong indicator that you're on the wrong side of a debate.

[brindle88]

 

 

Can you please cite what your argument is then?

 

Mate the more we reply back to them the more they crap on. Enough has been posted on here for people to read.

They no barbs are inferior to fighters and rogues, everyone nows. They are just arguing for the sake of arguing and it's getting pathetic. People will be able to tell that by reading there posts.

People can also read where a Developer came in and completely countered your argument against Barbs, proving that Barb's are not inferior. The only one "arguing for the sake of arguing" is you. The only person really backing you up is Gairnulf, which should be a strong indicator that you're on the wrong side of a debate.

Post your build to gairnulf then. It's pretty easy. Just do that and you have proven your point.

[brindle88]

I hear silence?........lol

 

You won't post it because you know your full of BS

 

Please post your build to gairnulf and let him test it

[Zenbane]

Gairnulf was asking Teloh to post a build, although I don't recommend that Teloh waste any time. We already read a Dev post a Barb strategy that beats a Rogue:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82781-most-overpowered-builds-post-patch-202/?p=1746376

 

The point was proven, but you just close your eyes and plug your ears to deny it over and over again. It doesn't matter what anyone posts, you will find some way to type up a long-winded diatribe that you only "think" countered someones opinion.

[Gairnulf]

Just post it to everyone. Said developer countered nothing. All he said was the Barbarian was strong with high INT and MIG = 30.

Edited November 5, 2015 by Gairnulf

[brindle88]

Yeah man we want to see the build post it. You or whoever is for this?

 

Gairnulf will be happy to post you his builds if you require why can't you do the same?

[Zenbane]

via Imgflip Meme Maker

[Parasol_Syndicate]

The developer post was that a specific Barbarian build cosplaying a Swiss pikeman works well with other party members and buffs. 

Stop the presses. 

 

Not really the raging frontline damage machine the class features suggest. 

[brindle88]

The developer post was that a specific Barbarian build cosplaying a Swiss pikeman works well with other party members and buffs. 

Stop the presses. 

 

Not really the raging frontline damage machine the class features suggest. 

read the thread. the dev did not post a build he said if a barb takes a scoll and is behind a paladin and gets then he will do damage?

[brindle88]

why would you argue with someone and then not present facts???

 

where is the build post it??

[Parasol_Syndicate]

That is indeed what I was referencing. 

 

see 'other party members and buffs'...

[Cantousent]

This is why I hate congratulating opposing parties in a thread. I swear, someone's going to end up reporting someone else and then I'll actually have to work at something other than pushing new member posts. Stop taunting each other or I'll time out the thread and berate you all or something. Well... I'm too lazy to berate you. I'll ask you to go to a corner and berate yourself for ten minutes or so. That's a lot less effort on my part. Come on guys, get back to logical, long winded, and convolutedly clever arguments. Sure, it makes them harder to read but at least folks can recognize the thought that went into them.

 

...And, here's the deal with barbs: (Notice how I'm going to be careful to nod to both sides? It won't be an accident.)

 

First of all, if you're looking for the most powerful build, I can't make an intelligent argument. *Most* powerful is a completely theoretical argument and only requires one person to find a clever exploit. However, in terms of playing the game, QA is the tops when it comes to things like this. Really. I think even Sawyer would own that the QA team comes up with crazy ways to break the game and make hugely powerful characters. It's their job to do so. If we get away from *most* powerful, then any class is powerful *enough.* I think every class is viable. Sure, some will be more powerful, but, at least on hard, it seems to me you can make them all work. Conversely, why do you care if other folks think barbarians aren't all that and a bag of chips? If some folks observe that, in their experience, barbarians are sub-standard, you could probably take for granted, unless they're out and out trolling (which I don't believe) that they've looked into barbarian builds and find them lackluster. Saying your barbarian isn't as good as other classes is simply not the same as questioning you or your personal integrity. It just means that they've looked at the figures and have concluded that one class is not as good as another.

 

I'm going to let you guys duke it out, but I'll probably give this thread a timeout if you guys start reporting one another. ...And I don't want to because I've had fun reading your responses.

[Zenbane]

 Conversely, why do you care if other folks think barbarians aren't all that and a bag of chips?

 

There's a difference between stating that a Barbarian is just "okay" versus what was actually said, which was:

"BARBARIANS ARE VASTLY INFERIOR TO FIGHTERS/ AND ROGUES"

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/82781-most-overpowered-builds-post-patch-202/?p=1745049

 

The reason the discussion continues to take a turn for the worst, is because ever since brindle made that terrible post, people have been trying to voice their opinion against the claim that this class is VASTLY INFERIOR. Yet as soon as someone makes a post on that specific issue, brindle topic shifts and turns it in to "OMG YOUR COUNTER ARGUMENT DOESNT PROVE BARBS ARE OVERPOWERED"

 

It's quite the neat trick; one that I do consider trolling. Make a blanket statement about Subject Matter A, when someone counters Subject Matter A, make another blanket statement about how the counter doesn't prove Subject Matter B. Rinse and repeat for each letter in the alphabet, and use numbers if you have to lol

 

That's the main reason I chose not to fall for the troll bait when brindle repeatedly asked for someone to post an "overpowered Barb Build." I knew that the real question is whether or not someone can post a build that proves Barbarians are not "vastly inferior." That's already been done, but brindle will continue to deny it based on his endless supply of red herrings.

 

As for quality Barb builds (not overpowered), I love the options here, with a special affinity towards the Human Fireball:

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=416939844

Edited November 6, 2015 by Zenbane

[brindle88]

A topic was raised.

 

We asked for proof.

 

All you have to do is post the build. If you want gairnulf to post builds to prove the argument that barbarians are weaker then rogues and fighters just ask him

[Teioh_White]

Can you please cite what your argument is then?

 

I'm really not sure if your serious. This is some deadpan stuff, if not.  But we'll rehash things.

 

What started this?

Folks claimed Barbs are worse than the other martial classes. (Everyone I think agrees everything is lackluster compared to Wizzy).

Folks also make claims that getting value out of on-crit weapons in PotD is not sustainable.

 

Thesis statement here:  ----Barbarians power level is in-line with the other martial classes----   Reasons and facts for why this is so followed in same post.

 

1.)List out what advantages have over Barbarian (fighter was initial example, which is getting irrational praise in this thread)

2.)List out what Barbarian has in exchange for those.

3.)Spell out why it's simple to get consistent crits in PotD

 

The response to this?

1.)Request for a build (Which is incredibly asinine; beyond that doesn't have many 'builds', it doesn't argue against anything. It's attempting to punt an argument)

2.)Respond that we want to compare to Fighter and Rogue, not casters. (which I did in the initial post, but I guess not in-depth enough)

3.)Respond with extremely narrow and off target mark on a side topic (high functioning stuff, not sure if intentional, again)

4.) Respond to on-crit argument by bringing up level 3 fights in Act 1.....where there are no on-crit weapons. When the post specifically mentioned Act 3.

 

Where'd we go next?

1.)Mention the obvious logic flaws and point missing in 2+4

2.)Go in-depth on the requested comparisons, Fighter and Rogue. Give stat values for the Barb. Assign conservative estimates for stats, and focus on damage only; standard procedure to bias against what is being proven. 

3.) Come to conclusion that yes, Barbarian is very solid in what it's stated niche is: 3+mobs. Stuggles against Rogue in Rogues niche: single target.

 

From there:

1.)Response gets weird; difficult to interpret response on 'hypo's v. 'playthroughs' as though numbers weren't giving proof to what happens in play throughs. Confusing, hence the 'Let's Play' comment attempting to make the statement have some logical worth.

2.) Mentions Barbarians start out worse, but get better later. Progess? (no) confusing comparison to Casters, which already established were stronger and said we're not comparing too.

3.) Strange response that it doesn't matter that Barbs are stronger later on, as everyone is stronger. Only logical implication I can draw claiming it does not matter how strong a class is, once it gets a certain strength it becomes a wash, all classes will reach this point, so only  the relative power before this point matters?

4.)Possibly related follow up: claiming that a class being good in the larger physical timeframe of the later levels is insuffcient to make up for being worse in the shorter physical timeframe of the early levels.

 

Where we ended?

1.)Attempt to c;arify if the arguments above, were in fact the intended arguments, as they are very.... strange arguments.

2.) Quick run down over Act 1 class strength, if that was actually the hidden argument all along.

3.) As relates to initial desired discussion of Barb v. Fighter/Rogue, Barb similar to fighter, blown away by Rogue

 

And that's about where the discussion ended. I'm not sure where any misrepresentations took place, but that's really beside the point, which is for anyone reading this thread without fully understanding the game mechanics to come away with the idea that Barbs are somehow an inferior class to the other martial classes.

 

As an aside on Barb, I do find it funny that of all the Cheesey stuff in the game, Barb was the one who had it all taken away. I actually used to put it up with the casters in the power level around launch. Granted, that's because it was clearly not working as intended, but what some of the casters can do makes it strange to think it was okay to intend to do that. (Referring to Carnage jolting touch scrolls, Carnage Retaliationx2+Battle-forged, and One Stands Alone +20 hilarity)

[Cantousent]

Okay, I've removed a couple of posts from this thread. I'll be contacting Fionavar for admin involvement in order to straighten out the issue. I'm closing this thread indefinitely. If there is a problem that has spilled out of this board and we can find out evidence of such, then we will take appropriate action. For shame, folks. We're talking about class builds. It should *never* have gotten to be personal enough for me to be forced to seek admin involvement. I'm dead serious, I'm disappointed.