Standard Newbie Question/Suggestion Thread

[Zekram Bogg]

So I just started playing PoE over the weekend (thanks for completely destroying my weekend Obsidian et al!) and for the most part, am absolutely loving it. GOOD JORB OBSIDIAN!

I just had to come to the official forums to begin further discussions on how to be a hardcore PoE-boy, hence the standard boilerplate  forum newbie tradition of asking very loud critical questions on features that forum vets have all already probably discussed ad infinitum. Since I'm new and don't want to waste anyone's time but just get a measure of the land, I'll limit this to 5 points (just like my post limit!)

1) First and foremost: where all the mods at? I've found a savegame editor, and a bunch of portrait packs (currently collecting and putting together an art-style/lore friendly collection myself) and some UI stuff. Is the game tough to mod? Are there plans for an eventual editor (found no info on this) for eventual endless player-made content? Also, voice packs - I have the audio equipment and access to varying levels of professional to semi-pro actor friends, but have only found a thread on replacing player character audio. Has anyone figured out how to create new audio categories so we can have more options rather than just 5 different male/female ones? This seems pretty critical considering the pretty low number of PC voices and long-term game modding down the road.

2) What's the deal with in active dungeon-camping?

Obviously the game recognizes location states by type. It has to, because when you play in expert mode or just turn off the help feature on the universal stash, the game will differentiate between towns and "everywhere else", restricting stash access to towns only (which is a cool feature that I dig).

And yet nothing on making camps in active dungeons five feet away from a bunch of angry cultists/spiderlings et cetera?

I mean, this seems like a huge no brainer to me coming from table-top. At least as an option like the universal stash.

Safe-Camping - On/Off. On and it works as it is in game. Off and the game makes a roll based off of two modified values - threat level and survival (a vastly underplayed skill as of yet). Threat level = Base value * current % of enemies in the location (interior locations only). Base value is set on expected player level of dungeon. If you have a level 10 dungeon and have cleared out no one you've got to beat a  roll with a threat modifier of +1000 to camp in it unmolested, or basically, you WILL get attacked should you camp. If you're in a level 2 dungeon and have cleared half of it, you have to beat a of 15 + 50 to not get attacked with half your party still asleep (prone until a timer of 30-90 seconds finishes or taking damage), and 50+50 to not have your sleep period interrupted by encroaching enemies by your watchman (whomever has the highest HP when camping) so that while combat begins with everyone likely still fatigued, at least everyone is up and awake for it. Past that it's smooth sailing. The group that attacks you being culled from a "Active Patrol" list of dungeon general baddies (with multiple groups for more diverse dungeons).

The player's roll is the PC Party's collective Survival Skill ranks + 1/2 Stealth Ranks (or Collective Stealth Ranks +1/2 Survival ranks, whichever is lowest) / by # of people in party * avg Player Character level. So, if collective Survival is 15 and 1/2 party stealth is 9 in a group of 6, you get a 4 multiplied by the Party leader's level (6) for a 1-100 roll with +36 modifier.

Or you know . . . something similar to that. Not that I haven't been thinking about this for the last 4 character levels or anything . . .

It's just, I cleared half of Raedric's keep camping next to the recently slain corpes of foes 10 feet away from their brethren and it started to bug even my munchin self.

Please Obsidian! Take away this vile camping abuse temptation!

3) Fighter needs Feats badly!

The fighter class in this game feels VERY D&D 3.5 to me, in both all of the good and bad ways. Primarily, by having a lot of highly utilitarian but emminently non-flashy abilities. A Huge chunk of them are passives or other abilities with very minimal art - like modal/temporary modifiers. Other folks get spells, auras, yells, chants, pets, et cetera. Fighters Get a knockdown and lots of stances and passives. It's all useful, but it's also all . . . undramatic.

But the Fighter class in 3.5 had one thing going for it that I think alleviated that - a LOT - Tons-o-customization through bonus feats! Sure, fighters could be Captain Boring Broadsword compared to all the flash and panache of wizards and druids and Barbarians, but they were a very talented and specialized  kind of boring! That extra oomph of variety of boring utility abilities made them the swiss army knife of classes.

This game uses talents, but the concept is the same. Fighters could use a couple of bonus talent unlocks in their level progression to give them a bit more spice than the other classes here too. Not many, like, every 4th level (so, at 4, 8, 12, 16 and 20 if and when we get to level 20). Or maybe eventually at 5,10,15 and 20 if 5 is too many. Again, if they're going to be a bit boring, they should at least be excellent at being boring.

 

(or maybe just add lots of cool, flashy stance animations since this is a video game, but that costs a lot of time and money, so I get why that's probably not feasible I mean, More Critical Death animations please!!!

Seriously, gibs are so 1990's Quake. We need more 1990's Fallout instead. We need a few beheadings, impalements, flying arms and legs. At least for Kith models. I get that this is probably annoying for all the differently shaped critters, but most of the the kith models seems to share the same skeletons. If it works for a human, it should work for an Orlan!).

4) Why can't I split up groups of stacked items? Oh, it's because I could find nowhere in the game except checking these very forums on how to do it? There's no option in the controls . . . nothing?

Seriously, this bothered me for like, just until 5 minutes ago. This game could use some better player education on this. And a lot of little things, but that's the one that bothered me the most enough to remember it.

 

5) Where are my horrible choice trade-off traits? I thought this was an Obsidian game?!

I was expecting all kinds of - "Hideous Visage. You were scarred as a youth in an awful manner and now it makes most fear you. Resolve checks for Diplomacy have +3 Resolve requirement, Intimidation, -3" or "Gangly. You're taller than most for your species, and while this causes others to look up to you (hah), it also mean you stick out like a sore thumb (-1 to all resolve check reqs with members of your species, x2 cost for Stealth Skill point progression and -5 Deflection)" and all that jazz.

 

I miss traits. . . they added so much replayability spice. The spice must flow.

 

But yeah, this game is awesome, please make more of it. I will be purchasing all of the things of it in all likelihood. And coming back here to chat with you all!

[Night Stalker]

1) First and foremost: where all the mods at? I've found a savegame editor, and a bunch of portrait packs (currently collecting and putting together an art-style/lore friendly collection myself) and some UI stuff. Is the game tough to mod? Are there plans for an eventual editor (found no info on this) for eventual endless player-made content? Also, voice packs - I have the audio equipment and access to varying levels of professional to semi-pro actor friends, but have only found a thread on replacing player character audio. Has anyone figured out how to create new audio categories so we can have more options rather than just 5 different male/female ones? This seems pretty critical considering the pretty low number of PC voices and long-term game modding down the road.

Your best bet for mods would be http://www.nexusmods.com/pillarsofeternity/ .

 

PoE runs on Unity 4, which makes the game hard to mod, and in some cases requires you to shell out a lot of money to get the editor. Unity 5 is far easier to mod for, and the personal edition is free, but it is uncertain that PoE will ever be ported to it.

 

There are no plans from the devs to make a standalone editor, and at best they tried to not make it difficult to mod the game, not to enable it (it was never a core design priority to enable the creation of mods).

Edited July 15, 2015 by Night Stalker

[Zekram Bogg]

That is a shame then. Not being an expert in Unity, does anyone know how difficult it is to port between 4 and 5?

I noticed the file structure wasn't too complicated and seemed fairly mod friendly, but saw no official support. I guess this is more a tacit go-ahead on modding then?

[Nakia]

PoE is an excellent game to play without a lot of mods. I also fail to understand why a first time player is demanding mods.  If you have not played the game through how can you possibly know what it needs or rather what you may want it to have.  

 

We were never promised a modding tool or that the casual modder would be able to mod.  We do have some experienced people who have made mods.  If you want to mod the game learn how and do it.  Stop complaining that you can't have something you were never promised.

Edited July 15, 2015 by Nakia

[Night Stalker]

That is a shame then. Not being an expert in Unity, does anyone know how difficult it is to port between 4 and 5?

 

The obvious answer is that the bigger and complex the game is, the more time it is going to take.

 

Wasteland 2 started the conversion to Unity 5 some time before the trail end of February (most likely just after release), and it is still going. Of course Wasteland 2 is also being ported to Xbox One and Playstation 4, so that is also eating up some of the time, even with Unity 5 cross platform support.

 

PoE has however far less to gain by switching to Unity 5, so I doubt it will happen - perhaps for the sequel

 

PoE is an excellent game to play without a lot of mods. I also fail to understand why a first time player is demanding mods.  If you have not played the game through how can you possibly know what it needs or rather what you may want it to have. 

 

My best bet is that people have gotten used to mods after the recent Fallouts and Elder Scrolls games. Recently there also seems to be a lot of unofficial overhauls UI mods that fixes many of the small niggles (which I guess would be the IE mod in this case).

[Nakia]

@ Night Stalkerl what you say is true and I played and modded the TES games and installed mods for Fallout NV but the owners of a game are under no obligation to provide modding tools for players.  Even when they do provide tools they are under no obligation to support those tools.  Only if the player has to pay for something is there any legal obligation as stated in the EULA.   Ranting about something like this is childish.  This is also the type of thing that causes trouble and heartache for good modders who share their work freely with others.  It simply disgusts me.  It show a lack of common courtesy and aslo knowledge of what is involved.

 

That's my rant for the day.  

[Night Stalker]

@ Night Stalkerl what you say is true and I played and modded the TES games and installed mods for Fallout NV but the owners of a game are under no obligation to provide modding tools for players.  Even when they do provide tools they are under no obligation to support those tools.  Only if the player has to pay for something is there any legal obligation as stated in the EULA.   Ranting about something like this is childish.  This is also the type of thing that causes trouble and heartache for good modders who share their work freely with others.  It simply disgusts me.  It show a lack of common courtesy and aslo knowledge of what is involved.

 

That's my rant for the day.  

 

For what it is worth I agree with you.

[Zekram Bogg]

PoE is an excellent game to play without a lot of mods. I also fail to understand why a first time player is demanding mods.  If you have not played the game through how can you possibly know what it needs or rather what you may want it to have.  

 

We were never promised a modding tool or that the casual modder would be able to mod.  We do have some experienced people who have made mods.  If you want to mod the game learn how and do it.  Stop complaining that you can't have something you were never promised.

Whoa there buddy!

 

Hi. I'm not talking about modding this game for my first playthrough (which I'm about half-done with I'm guessing?). I'm talking about the future of the game over the long term. More specifically, for content. The old Infinity Engine games had TONS of user made content for others to enjoy, and this game seeks to emulate those games, so i figured that tradition would be continued. And it is, it just seems like it's tough in Unity 4 from what I gather. Which means it's going to take longer. 

 

Also, I wasn't demanding a modding tool or "complaining" about it. You're reading a lot into what was a simple question. Calm down. Is it wrong for me to assume that modders of a game will gather at the official forums for that game? Is it wrong to assume that answers to these basic questions can be answered here before I look more deeply into things on my own?

 

As for "just do it".  I will. Just trying to get a lay of the land first. (and seriously, you think 5 voices sets per sex split over 6 races is good? This game needs some stuff like voice packs ASAP)

[Nakia]

We already have discussions about modding.  Here is a link to a recent one.

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/80700-poe-modding-sites/

 

We started asking for modding tools during the Kickstarter.    You are new to the game and yet you are already telling us what is wrong with the game and what we should do.  You do have the right to express your opinions but I also have the right to find you rather arrogant and to express my opinions.  This is a community and a pretty friendly, cooperative one.  

 

PoE is not a D&D game for which some of us are grateful.  Obsidian has worked hard on this game with a low budget and has been very responsive to players from the very beginning.  It costs money and resources to make modding tools.  Game development is not a simple thing.  Other software than the Unity Engine is used.  The IE games have been out for years judging what PoE is doing currently is IMO extremely unfair.  PoE has been out four months come back in fifteen years and see what has been done or not done.

 

Voice actors like to be paid and a lot of us have expressed that we preferred and still prefer that the money be spent on other things.

[qwert_44643]

  You know due to the hostility in this topic i was going to stay out of it but :

  1-Im new to POE but not the IE games,I got my introduction to mods way back in morrowind and have used them faithfully ever since.

  2-Ive started POE over 2 or 3 times now(always seem to start over till i get the basics down) and so far i have Shaders of Eternity active in my game which make colors more vibrant and id love to get my hands on a random encounter mod that includes camping in its scope.

  3-I see nothing wrong with what the op stated or how he stated.....im not a backer(because i didnt know bout it) but i paid for the game and plan on buying the expansion but you better believe that buying the game gives me just as much right as  the backers when it comes to what i expect and accept.

  4-To blantly attack someone calling thim arrogant,childish is well just rude and doesnt say much for POE's community which hopefully that will change.

 

 To op ive found the nexus which is pretty much where i spend my time go there check it out....check out Shaders Of Eternity cant believe the difference...

qwert

Edited July 16, 2015 by qwert_44643