Survival and other PoE skills

[Drath]

As noted by Darth Roxor and Decado in their reviews and also a good number of forumers here, the current skill system mostly only makes Mechanics (which you need increasingly high ranks, but can confine it to 1 person) and Athletics (which everyone needs a minimum of 2-3 ranks to reduce resting), essential skills. The rest are a good deal more situational.

IMHO, it would be nice to have a system similar to the Athletics-Fatigue setup for Survival to make its effects felt throughout the game as there are few conversation checks for it and +5% Consumable duration is kinda meh, at least for me.

Let's call it Survival-Hunger, whereby as a baseline:
No food/drink for 1 day => Status: Hungry (stacks with Fatigue): -5 Accuracy, -2 all defenses, -10 Concentration
No food/drink for 2 days => Status: Famished (stacks with Fatigue): -10 Accuracy, -4 all defenses, -2 Might/Con/Dex, -25 Concentration
No food/drink for 3 days => Status: Starving (stacks with Fatigue): -15 Accuracy, -6 all defenses, -4 Might/Con/Dex, -50 Concentration

And ranks in Survival extend the time before you get hit with hunger status effects. This would also make food a little more useful. Of course the details above can be tweaked. It's just a basic template.


Similarly it would be nice to see Lore getting more applications, especially on say solving mysteries/puzzles, decoding scripts, gathering information etc.
Crafting would also be nice to have as a skill as noted here, though a valid concern is that it would end up somewhat like Mechanics (one person taking high ranks, the rest never bothering with it).

Most of the other DnD skills like Climb/Swim/Jump appear to have been collapsed into Athletics. Balance/Tumble/Move Silently are represented by Dex and Athletics or Dex and Stealth. I can't really think of many other DnD skills that could make the transition well and have enough uses in a CRPG to warrant putting skill points into it. What are everyone's thoughts on this? Would you like to have the exact same system in an expansion or would you tweak it?

Edited June 11, 2015 by Drath

[MunoValente]

Lore is probably the best skill right now, scrolls are really good and it has a lot of dialogue options.  Survival definitely needs the most work, followed by stealth then athletics.  

 

Tying skills to some of the crafting would probably good, but would do it for all the skills not just lore.

 

With athletics I might have it increase move speed at higher levels or add to the reflex or fortitude at very high levels.

 

Survival could decrease time between maps, perhaps help fill in bestiary entries for monsters, increase the amount of planets and animal parts you get, maybe also improve will or fortitude at high levels.  Also if potions were more useful, then survival would be better.  For whatever reason using potions seems slow to me and I feel like I'd be better off taking other actions most of the time.

Edited June 11, 2015 by MunoValente

[tinysalamander]

More micromanagement… meh.

[manageri]

The only thing needed for survival is higher difficulty settings. Getting your ass kicked = consumables are now worth something, and therefore so is survival.

[EdwinP]

I would like to see survival skill have a real impact when the PC is in a wilderness area.

 

1. Reveal hidden paths on a wilderness encounter map

 

Example:

1. Reveals entrance to a cave - a PC within Skill 6 automatically sees a hidden entrance to a cave, without searching.
2. Reveals a ford across a raging river (i.e. cross at the ford and you suffer no fatigue penalty, cross in other places and you suffer a +30 fatigue penalty),
3. Reveals path or a shortcut to or through a wilderness area
4. Without survival skill you find a difficult path to climb a cliff (i.e. Survival Skill 0 - Path 1 uncovered by searching provides a +30 fatigue penalty). With survival skill 6 the path is easier to climb with a lower +10 fatigue penalty. (i.e. reduces fatigue penalty by 10% per survival skill level).
5. In a swamp, moving off the path imposes a +30 fatigue penalty, Survival skill reduces this.
6. In a swamp / bayou, survival skill reveals a less fatiguing path through the swamp.

 

2. Highlight plant ingredients. Survival skill 0 - plant ingredients are not automatically highlighted, Skill 3 - plant ingredients within a radius of 1x are automatically highlighted (without searching), Skill 6 - plant ingredients within a radius of 2x are highlighted (without searching), Plant ingredients within a radius of 3x are highlighted at Survival Skill level 9.

 

3. Survival skill provides a chance to avoid random encounters when traveling through a wilderness area.

Edited June 11, 2015 by EdwinP

[SlayerDorian]

It'd be nice to see survival decrease travel time through wilderness as long as one party member has a high rank.  Though, it wouldn't matter much due to time having no value in the current system. 

 

Also, even on PoTD, I don't bother with food 95% of the time.  Perhaps if you could craft better recipes with survival skill.

[MunoValente]

The only thing needed for survival is higher difficulty settings. Getting your ass kicked = consumables are now worth something, and therefore so is survival.

 

I don't know I still think it's weak, the consumables still have a time cost that prevents you from taking other actions and unlike lore where higher levels give you access to really great actions like revive/paralyze/maelstrom, survival is mostly only making fairly low level actions slightly better.  Making potions much faster to use might help some though.  The food items don't the have in battle time cost, but the food bonuses are all pretty boring and not really game changing.

[manageri]

 

The only thing needed for survival is higher difficulty settings. Getting your ass kicked = consumables are now worth something, and therefore so is survival.

 

I don't know I still think it's weak, the consumables still have a time cost that prevents you from taking other actions and unlike lore where higher levels give you access to really great actions like revive/paralyze/maelstrom, survival is mostly only making fairly low level actions slightly better.  Making potions much faster to use might help some though.  The food items don't the have in battle time cost, but the food bonuses are all pretty boring and not really game changing.

 

 

Yeah, I haven't done a gigantic amount of testing on them, but it seems sometimes it takes a really long time for a dude to take a potion, especially if they're taking hits and getting interrupted. I'm fairly sure it's bugged actually, as the actions seem to mysteriously get cancelled at times.

[EdwinP]

Most of the other DnD skills like Climb/Swim/Jump appear to have been collapsed into Athletics. Balance/Tumble/Move Silently are represented by Dex and Athletics or Dex and Stealth. I can't really think of many other DnD skills that could make the transition well and have enough uses in a CRPG to warrant putting skill points into it. What are everyone's thoughts on this? Would you like to have the exact same system in an expansion or would you tweak it?

 

In an expansion I would like to see skills have a much bigger impact on gameplay. A PC that is highly skilled in athletics, survival, or lore should standout from lesser / unskilled companions.

 

Example: Athletics

 

Let athletics shine by creating path options with large fatigue penalties, and provide new movement options for PCs with high skills in this area.

 

Swimming a sewer has a fatigue penalty of 20 - A character with no Athletics skill will be fatigued after swimming through the sewers.

Climbing a low cliff has a fatigue penalty of 20

Climbing a high cliff has a fatigue penalty of 40

Character with Athletics 9 can jump from to the far side of a river of lava (if standing on a predetermined jump tile)

Character with Athletics 9 can jump to the far side of a crevasse (if standing on a predetermined jump tile), lesser skilled characters can't make this jump - or face a chance of certain death if they try (i.e. 100% less 12% per Athletics skill level).

 

Example Lore:

 

Let higher level in lore reveal new spells or enchantments.  Perhaps a high lore level unlocks a new quest - i.e. at level 10 you learn the location of a legendary magical sword, a grimore of necromantic spells, nature spells or the tomb of an ancient wizard (D&D Tomb of Horrors).

 

Specializing in a skill; reaching level 9 or higher, should offer a big benefit. Now, my characters are a Jack of Trades as there is no major benefit to focusing on one skill area.

Edited June 12, 2015 by EdwinP

[MunoValente]

Maybe skills like athletics and stealth could tie into the engagement system somehow, athletics could give you a boost to defense against disengagement attacks, while stealth could give a chance to bypass engagement if you're running past someone, like a roll against opponent perception or decrease in the engagement distance or something like that; armor could reduce the effects.  Melee rangers and rouges seem like they should operate in this manner.