[Class Builds] Ranged Ranger, Ranged Rogue, Melee Rogue

[MoxyWoo]

Moar numbers (done in the attack speed sheet)

 

Swift Aim 10 dex DR 0 / DR 12 / DR 20

-Warbow 13.51 / 3.42 / 2.7

-Hunting 13.65 / 2.73 / 2.73

 

+Might 20 (30%) + Penetrating (-5 DR) + Superb (45%) + 20 Dex (30 attack speed)

-Warbow 34.25 / 24.81 / 14.02  

-Hunting 34.6 / 22.01 / 9.52

 

+Dangerous Implements

-Wand/Scepter 37 / 24.11 / 10.94

-Rod--------- 32.58 / 23.14 / 12.35

 

+Quickswitch vs 0 DR

-Blunderbuss 84.09 / 122.71 = 206.8

-Arquebus 70.27 / 103.04 = 173.31

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Viscous Aim 10 dex DR 0 / DR 12 / DR 20

-Warbow 8.97 / 3.38 / 1.93

-Hunting 9.06 / 2.6 / 1.81

 

+Might 20 (30%) + Penetrating (-5 DR) + Superb (45%) + 20 Dex (30 attack speed)

-Warbow 19.85 / 15.22 / 9.93

-Hunting 20.05 / 13.88 / 6.98

 

+Dangerous Implements (25%)

-Wand/Scepter 20.98 / 14.81 / 7.75

-Rod-------- 18.47/ 13.84 / 8.55

 

+Quickswitch

-Blunderbuss 126.46 / 113.1 = 239.56

-Arquebus 101.13 / 90.34 = 191.47

 

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*Math maybe bad at this point as I only used frames on the sheet:*

Warbow 113 frames with swift aim = 16.5 avg dmg / 113 frames = .14

Pistol 104 +77 reload frames with swift aim  = 31 avg dmg (5 DR put in) / 181 = .17 

OR 104 + 15.4 (gunner + surehand ila) 119.4 frames = .25963

 

Means Pistol by frames will actually deal the most damage.

 

On the spreadsheet though, with the numbers put in, you only get 9.5 dps at 20 DR so something is off for the guns at least.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Cranked the numbers through the attack speed chart:  https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1vDm5MOrCK6S95h5u0EzZbGTv_u_rYqjuO0-zupqk0_A/edit?pli=1#gid=1264774515

 

Vicious Aim is obviously better for the Quickswitch, but part of that chart is experimental, so YMMV.  Still technically ~160 avg dps.

 

Swift Aim seems to have the most impact (from my wizard melee testing, it tends to be attack speed helps slower weapons a lot).

 

Of special note:  Wounding shot = crazy amount of DoT since each pellet its on damage effect (thanks Peddroelm for testing this.) aka, this is 150+ dmg over 10 seconds easily aka +15 dps for the ranger.

 

I tried to plug in the numbers for Forgiveness Pistol, as its the same weapon group as Ruffian, but it broke down on me for the spreadsheet.

 

If it was fixed, 2 Blunderbuss + Accurate Wounding Shot = DoT applies on with a +10 modifier... But unfortunately, only the hobble effect gets the +10 acc bonus.

 

Swift Aim Gunner Talents:  Ruffian > Marksman > Steady and Swift > Stalker's Link > Penetrating shot > Quick Switch > Gunner (possibly skip gunner or stalker's, sorry won't bother testing all this)

 

Vicious Aim version requires one less of course, so can easily have all of the above minus Steady and Swift.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

TLDR:  Swift aim, even with the slightly decreased alpha of Quick Switch has the most impact for a ranger's dps, assuming everything else is the same, but costs 1 more talent to make the gap a little closer.  

 

Wizards are like this too, they get insane attack speed modifiers so things with huge recovery like Estocs or 2 handers in general are awesome on them but they lack damage modifiers so the only time the dps is surpassed is with faster weapons around 90% dmg modifier.  Hence why the rogue doing melee can crank out so much more than a ranger's shots, but even with warbow, the lack of attack speed from its base = less dps.

 

Practical optimization wise, since the sheet broke down for guns, I'd probably try a Ruffian + 2 blunderbuss for the Wounding shot stacking and then end on a pistol with Island Aumua.  Even if the sheet is off, 9.5 dps from the Pistol is comparable for 20 DR targets like warbow would be, and if the attack speed modifier off Forgiveness worked, it'd be even better.

Edited May 3, 2015 by MoxyWoo

[Urocyon]

In regard to the initial post, what is the rogue dps using the arquebus and what is the ranger dps using the warbow? Seems kind of like an apples to oranges comparison at the moment.

[B4nJ0]

Atm I see the ranger more like a melee toon then anything else... And I like it. Maybe 1 or 2 more playable feats and he will be decent in that role.

 

But if you talk about ranged well... I don't see why I should play him over any other toon to be honest :V

[rheingold]

Yup the pet is really no more fragile than my melee rogue. It also does reasonable damage with the 2 damage talents it gets. It's no point comparing ranger v rogue without taking a micro managed pet into account. To get the best out of a ranger you have to actively manage the pet. While I can see why people don't like this, it is the way the class is designed. Bottom line, micro managing the pet will increase the Rangers dps significantly, both from stalkers link and the extra damage the pet does. It all adds up. If you don't like the pet go rogue instead. It's really simple.

[the streaker]

In regard to the initial post, what is the rogue dps using the arquebus and what is the ranger dps using the warbow? Seems kind of like an apples to oranges comparison at the moment.

 

I compared the best builds for both classes. Ranger can make arquebus work only because of the big reload speed bonuses they get. Rogue cannot. The rogue shines with the warbow, which is the highest damage ranged weapon without absurd reload lengths or penalties to crit dmg. Overall, the ranger is far better as far as ranged DPS is concerned.

[MoxyWoo]

I think one consideration for the Ranger should be the RAW DoT of wounding shot.

 

It bypasses all DR.

 

It stacks on itself with Blunderbuss pellets, so can tick away from a 54 base max dmg (which is insanely high).  The next in line of Arquebus, but its still 20ish away for the max. 

 

Sadly, it doesn't show up on the sheet or even the combat logs from my brief testing, so...  there's not much proof except things melt when they get hit by it.

 

Edit to add:  Lion has faster movement for those wondering, its kinda fun to pull with it and use the ranger as a tank.

Edited May 3, 2015 by MoxyWoo

[the streaker]

What are the numbers for raw DoT of wounding shot? Is it not a percentage of the damage? I haven't seen anything that proves them, and unfortunately shooting your own guys does not seem to trigger wounding shot.

 

I have tried blunderbuss with marked prey and wounding shot, though, and it does in fact massacre most enemies. So hard to calculate though, the combat log shows very little about the individual pellets.

 

Oh, I also don't think it's fair to take into account quick switching, because it is currently bugged in all likelihood. You clearly weren't meant to be able to take one talent that lets you bypass recovery period of weapons in 0.5s. You can micro the **** out of it, vicious aim for the increased shot damage, then swift aim for the reload speed right afterwards, and quick switch to skip the recovery time. Most definitely will get fixed at some point.

Edited May 4, 2015 by the streaker

[MoxyWoo]

I know.. Peddroelm did the testing, but it basically boiled down to face melting whatever he was attacking.

 

The ability says Weapon x1 damage (or 100% weapon damage for similar effects).... I only assume since the max of a base shot of a blunderbuss is 54 (9*6) vs the arquebus at 36, which is unaffected by DR for the DoT means just how chunky it can be.

 

Edit to add:  Also from that thread, adding combusting wounds added to each DoT tick separately, which is also nuts.

Edited May 4, 2015 by MoxyWoo

[peddroelm]

What are the numbers for raw DoT of wounding shot? Is it not a percentage of the damage? I haven't seen anything that proves them, and unfortunately shooting your own guys does not seem to trigger wounding shot.

here's some damage numbers on wounding shot

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/78716-104-i-cant-figure-out-enduring-flameswounding-shot-dot-damagetick/?do=findComment&comment=1678559

 

But I still don't know exactly how it works ..

[the streaker]

Noticed a mistake on the spreadsheets that incorrectly accounted for missed shots. Revised is below:

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s2dSwb53xGedRD7yZlknm6gk780KMWzAawco3Kq4OpE/edit?usp=sharing

 

My methodology for working out damage per hit is:

 

main damage = [%chance to graze/hit/crit] * [avg weapon dmg * (base hit + might mod + quality mod + dmg mods from abilities) - (DR - weapon DR bypass - ability DR bypass)]

lash damage = [%chance to graze/hit/crit] * [25% of avg weapon dmg * (base hit + might mod + quality mod + dmg mods from abilities) - 25% of DR]

 

where "base hit" = (%graze / %graze/hit/crit) * 0.5 + (%hit / %graze/hit/crit) * 1 + (%crit / %graze/hit/crit) * (weapon crit mod)

 

The results push the advantage further in the ranger's favor, who is now number 1 in total DPS (vs melee or ranged rogues sneak attacking) when considering driving flight. Main target only, he's about 60% of a melee rogue sneak attacking.

 

You can see why - sneak attack and all other rogue +dmg skills are just one part of the damage formula, adding up in the "dmg mods from abilities" section of the formula. Meanwhile, the ranger's speed boosts increase attacks/second, and effectively multiply the whole damage formula by the amount of extra attacks they give. Driving flight likewise.

Edited May 7, 2015 by the streaker