[Class Build] Pillardin

[MadDemiurg]

Personally for a tank paladin I would drop int/dex to min, max con/per/res and put the rest in mig. You need high fortitude vs petrification and adra dragon wings (both of which can be fatal), while deflection and reflexes cover most spells/melee attacks. My first choice of order are the goldpact paladins because you don't get penalties for being cruel/deceptive - which are required if you want the best stat boosts for your character. I would pick background and talents that increase perception mostly because perception is a stat that can't be boosted by resting/foods. I like to take also bear's fortitude and snake reflexes to be able to reach 170+def/170+for/170+refl vs the adra dragon (which means only grazes from him in PotD).

Not sure this is reachable even if you min/max. Maybe with buffs from priest/chanter.

[gkathellar]

 

Personally for a tank paladin I would drop int/dex to min, max con/per/res and put the rest in mig. You need high fortitude vs petrification and adra dragon wings (both of which can be fatal), while deflection and reflexes cover most spells/melee attacks. My first choice of order are the goldpact paladins because you don't get penalties for being cruel/deceptive - which are required if you want the best stat boosts for your character. I would pick background and talents that increase perception mostly because perception is a stat that can't be boosted by resting/foods. I like to take also bear's fortitude and snake reflexes to be able to reach 170+def/170+for/170+refl vs the adra dragon (which means only grazes from him in PotD).

Not sure this is reachable even if you min/max. Maybe with buffs from priest/chanter.

 

 

Well, for reference, you need something like 158 for the Adra dragon to only ever graze or miss you on PotD. I'm pretty sure that pre-buffing and without any of the single defense-boosting talents, a balanced set of defences defenses tops out at approximately 165/115/140/115, +/-5 or so. Dunno how high they can get once you start throwing buffs on.

[MadDemiurg]

 

 

Personally for a tank paladin I would drop int/dex to min, max con/per/res and put the rest in mig. You need high fortitude vs petrification and adra dragon wings (both of which can be fatal), while deflection and reflexes cover most spells/melee attacks. My first choice of order are the goldpact paladins because you don't get penalties for being cruel/deceptive - which are required if you want the best stat boosts for your character. I would pick background and talents that increase perception mostly because perception is a stat that can't be boosted by resting/foods. I like to take also bear's fortitude and snake reflexes to be able to reach 170+def/170+for/170+refl vs the adra dragon (which means only grazes from him in PotD).

Not sure this is reachable even if you min/max. Maybe with buffs from priest/chanter.

 

 

Well, for reference, you need something like 158 for the Adra dragon to only ever graze or miss you on PotD. I'm pretty sure that pre-buffing and without any of the single defense-boosting talents, a balanced set of defences defenses tops out at approximately 165/115/140/115, +/-5 or so. Dunno how high they can get once you start throwing buffs on.

 

158 is for weapon attacks. Most (if not all) of his attacks are abilities and get +12 accuracy bonus for lvl 12. So it's 170 actually, as Kaylon correctly noted.

Edited April 22, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Kaigen42]

Am I missing something? Why no Righteous Soul? 

Well, you'll have a high Will defense already, and in my experience the Paladin tank doesn't get targeted much by Charms or Dominates. In my case, they'd rather go after my Cipher or Druid. That said, it's not like Reinforcing Exhortation is the bee's knees, so if you want to grab Righteous Soul instead as insurance, I think that's a viable pick.

[Kaylon]

 

Personally for a tank paladin I would drop int/dex to min, max con/per/res and put the rest in mig. You need high fortitude vs petrification and adra dragon wings (both of which can be fatal), while deflection and reflexes cover most spells/melee attacks. My first choice of order are the goldpact paladins because you don't get penalties for being cruel/deceptive - which are required if you want the best stat boosts for your character. I would pick background and talents that increase perception mostly because perception is a stat that can't be boosted by resting/foods. I like to take also bear's fortitude and snake reflexes to be able to reach 170+def/170+for/170+refl vs the adra dragon (which means only grazes from him in PotD).

Not sure this is reachable even if you min/max. Maybe with buffs from priest/chanter.

 

 

You can reach 160+ with food/resting bonuses and the fear aura of the adra dragon will keep Defiant Resolve up all the time which allows you to reach 170.

[MadDemiurg]

 

 

Personally for a tank paladin I would drop int/dex to min, max con/per/res and put the rest in mig. You need high fortitude vs petrification and adra dragon wings (both of which can be fatal), while deflection and reflexes cover most spells/melee attacks. My first choice of order are the goldpact paladins because you don't get penalties for being cruel/deceptive - which are required if you want the best stat boosts for your character. I would pick background and talents that increase perception mostly because perception is a stat that can't be boosted by resting/foods. I like to take also bear's fortitude and snake reflexes to be able to reach 170+def/170+for/170+refl vs the adra dragon (which means only grazes from him in PotD).

Not sure this is reachable even if you min/max. Maybe with buffs from priest/chanter.

 

 

You can reach 160+ with food/resting bonuses and the fear aura of the adra dragon will keep Defiant Resolve up all the time which allows you to reach 170.

 

Can you break that down by modifiers you use? I don't remember any good saving throw bonuses from food, this could be interesting.

[Kaylon]

 

 

 

Personally for a tank paladin I would drop int/dex to min, max con/per/res and put the rest in mig. You need high fortitude vs petrification and adra dragon wings (both of which can be fatal), while deflection and reflexes cover most spells/melee attacks. My first choice of order are the goldpact paladins because you don't get penalties for being cruel/deceptive - which are required if you want the best stat boosts for your character. I would pick background and talents that increase perception mostly because perception is a stat that can't be boosted by resting/foods. I like to take also bear's fortitude and snake reflexes to be able to reach 170+def/170+for/170+refl vs the adra dragon (which means only grazes from him in PotD).

Not sure this is reachable even if you min/max. Maybe with buffs from priest/chanter.

 

 

You can reach 160+ with food/resting bonuses and the fear aura of the adra dragon will keep Defiant Resolve up all the time which allows you to reach 170.

 

Can you break that down by modifiers you use? I don't remember any good saving throw bonuses from food, this could be interesting.

 

 

From food you can get +2mig/con/dex/int and +3res (also +1per but only 150s duration) which translates to +8fort/+10will/+4refl/+3defl and also +2mig/+2con/+2res from resting which is another +8fort/+4will/+2defl for a total of +16for/+14will/+4refl/+5defl

[MadDemiurg]

Hm, so if we go wild orlan 18 M/18 C with +3 might/con gear for total of 21/21 we have: 

 

fort: 20 (base) + 44 (stats) + 27 (maxed faith and conviction w deep faith) + 33 (lvl 12) + 10 (item) + 16 (food/rest bonuses) + 10 (wild orlan's defiance) + 10 (bull's)= 170. Looks legit. If you go min dex your reflex won't be that great even with a shield though.

Edited April 22, 2015 by MadDemiurg

[Kaigen42]

Kaylon mentions taking Bear's Fortitude, so that's probably here the extra 10 is coming from.

 

Sword and Shield Style is a pretty big Reflex boost if you keep up with enhancing your shield's quality. My Paladin had minimum Dexterity and maximum Intellect and Resolve and Reflex and Will were dead even. In the case of Orlans, it helps that you can crank Perception so high to make up for the missing Dexterity. Remember that S&S itself adds 6 to the shield's deflection, and that plus the quality modifier stacks with the shield's base deflection to transfer over to Reflex. Even with a small shield like the Outworn Buckler, that can easily be 8 (shield) + 8 (exceptional) + 6 (S&S) = 22 Reflex, not counting the extra bump from the Herald quality.

[MadDemiurg]

Kaylon mentions taking Bear's Fortitude, so that's probably here the extra 10 is coming from.

 

Sword and Shield Style is a pretty big Reflex boost if you keep up with enhancing your shield's quality. My Paladin had minimum Dexterity and maximum Intellect and Resolve and Reflex and Will were dead even. In the case of Orlans, it helps that you can crank Perception so high to make up for the missing Dexterity. Remember that S&S itself adds 6 to the shield's deflection, and that plus the quality modifier stacks with the shield's base deflection to transfer over to Reflex. Even with a small shield like the Outworn Buckler, that can easily be 8 (shield) + 8 (exceptional) + 6 (S&S) = 22 Reflex, not counting the extra bump from the Herald quality.

Yep, added bear's.

 

As for reflex, assuming 18/16/3/20/3/16 build:

 

20 base + 33 level + 27 faith and conv  + 27(buckler w herald, up to 30 with exceptional big shield) + 10 fox + 10 defiant resolve + 10 item = 157-160. + whatever you get from food/rest but if you're using might/con/res resting bonus then nothing from rest probably. Still almost enough.

 

And just to finish the picture: will

20 base + 33 level + 27 faith and conv + 10(15) item + 10 defiant resolve = 100-105 + whatever you can get from food/rest. Plus there's a paladin passive for +15 vs a lot of will based afflictions. Weakest save but still quite good.

 

All in all, looks pretty solid.

[gkathellar]

Yeah, it makes the case for playing a Wild Orlan pretty well. Makes me wish they had bearable head models.

 

Orlan mohawk auuuugh

[Kaylon]

Kaylon mentions taking Bear's Fortitude, so that's probably here the extra 10 is coming from.

 

Sword and Shield Style is a pretty big Reflex boost if you keep up with enhancing your shield's quality. My Paladin had minimum Dexterity and maximum Intellect and Resolve and Reflex and Will were dead even. In the case of Orlans, it helps that you can crank Perception so high to make up for the missing Dexterity. Remember that S&S itself adds 6 to the shield's deflection, and that plus the quality modifier stacks with the shield's base deflection to transfer over to Reflex. Even with a small shield like the Outworn Buckler, that can easily be 8 (shield) + 8 (exceptional) + 6 (S&S) = 22 Reflex, not counting the extra bump from the Herald quality.

 

Yes, Herald is another 5 fortitude, the Outworn Buckler/Little Savior are the best shields overall - compared to a large shield you lose +3defl/refl but you get +5fort/will without losing accuracy. Also you have 4 possible quests which can boost your stats and add also to your defenses. 

[Kaigen42]

Yeah, it makes the case for playing a Wild Orlan pretty well. Makes me wish they had bearable head models.

 

Orlan mohawk auuuugh

I wish they had more customization in general. Right now all you can do is pick the fur color.

[Kaylon]

Here are the stats (base stats were 15mig/18con/6dex/20/per/3int/15res) of a test paladin I used to fight the adra dragon in PotD:

I started with  15 scrolls of jolting touch + boots of the animancer (to clear the adragans fast and fight the dragon after) and I had also 5potions of major endurance. I had 10 survival to be able to keep my food buffs for the entire fight. The dragon was dead while I had nearly half of my health and lay on hands unused. I don't know if 15 scrolls of jolting touch is considered cheap, but at least now I'm convinced you can kill him solo on PotD without luck/petrify trap.

I'm not sure what the range of his breath is, but if it's less than bow range then a ranger with high int can kill him too rather easily (root him for and then pelt him with arrows while staying out of his range)

Edited April 23, 2015 by Kaylon

[gkathellar]

That's awesome.

 

Why Dex 6? Unless I'm missing something, you could go Dex 4 and Perception 21, and still have enough Reflex.

[Kaylon]

That's awesome.

 

Why Dex 6? Unless I'm missing something, you could go Dex 4 and Perception 21, and still have enough Reflex.

 

Per isn't enough to put you over 170refl because you have no means to buff perception outside items.

[gkathellar]

 

That's awesome.

 

Why Dex 6? Unless I'm missing something, you could go Dex 4 and Perception 21, and still have enough Reflex.

 

Per isn't enough to put you over 170refl because you have no means to buff perception outside items.

 

 

Right, but you can shift a point from one to the other, can't you?

[Kaylon]

 

 

That's awesome.

 

Why Dex 6? Unless I'm missing something, you could go Dex 4 and Perception 21, and still have enough Reflex.

 

Per isn't enough to put you over 170refl because you have no means to buff perception outside items.

 

 

Right, but you can shift a point from one to the other, can't you?

 

 

You can't add more points to perception because you were already at max. The only way to add mor reflex is through dex.

[gkathellar]

 

 

 

That's awesome.

 

Why Dex 6? Unless I'm missing something, you could go Dex 4 and Perception 21, and still have enough Reflex.

 

Per isn't enough to put you over 170refl because you have no means to buff perception outside items.

 

 

Right, but you can shift a point from one to the other, can't you?

 

 

You can't add more points to perception because you were already at max. The only way to add mor reflex is through dex.

 

 

Taking White That Wends for your culture would let you do it (sorry, should have said that from the start) - none of your other stats are maxed, so there's no reason not to. It's not a huge deal, but it would buy you a point of Deflection, I guess.

[omgFIREBALLS]

holy fk dem defenses

[Kaylon]

 

 

 

 

That's awesome.

 

Why Dex 6? Unless I'm missing something, you could go Dex 4 and Perception 21, and still have enough Reflex.

 

Per isn't enough to put you over 170refl because you have no means to buff perception outside items.

 

 

Right, but you can shift a point from one to the other, can't you?

 

 

You can't add more points to perception because you were already at max. The only way to add mor reflex is through dex.

 

 

Taking White That Wends for your culture would let you do it (sorry, should have said that from the start) - none of your other stats are maxed, so there's no reason not to. It's not a huge deal, but it would buy you a point of Deflection, I guess.

 

 

Ah, you're right, I forgot I took +1res when I created him -  that would make +1defl.

[jasonite]

Hi all, new here, just bought the game a couple of days ago. I'm looking at creating a Paladin for my PC. I'm wanting him as a tank and also desire good dialogue options as well and am leaning toward Kaylon's build. I haven't mastered how all of the stats affect each other, but I have an idea for him, let me know how this sounds.

 

Making him a Wild Orlan, with adjusted 1st level stats of 15mig/18con/4dex/21per/3int/17res due to his White that Wends/Aristocrat. I'll probably make him a Shieldbearer. Is this still viable to get those 170+ defenses?

 

J

[Kaigen42]

Your combined Might/Con is a little low for hitting 170+. Just to double-check, though, are you playing on PotD difficulty level? Because it's not actually necessary to get your stats that high unless you are, since enemies get bonus Accuracy at that difficulty level.

 

If you are on PotD, consider going The Living Lands/Colonist to shift a point from Perception to Might and get a bonus to Survival. The build relies on high Survival to make all those food bonuses stretch, but there's little room for Survival-boosting gear, whereas you get a class bonus to Lore and one of the best armors in the game provides a +2 Lore bonus.

 

The tricky part about the max defenses build is that hitting the 170+ point in 3 out of 4 defenses requires leveraging a lot of specific pieces of gear and food and resting bonuses, which might be daunting for someone on their first playthrough. That being said, even if you fall short of that goal, you'll still be in excellent shape against anything short of the Adra Dragon.

[jasonite]

Your combined Might/Con is a little low for hitting 170+. Just to double-check, though, are you playing on PotD difficulty level? Because it's not actually necessary to get your stats that high unless you are, since enemies get bonus Accuracy at that difficulty level.

 

If you are on PotD, consider going The Living Lands/Colonist to shift a point from Perception to Might and get a bonus to Survival. The build relies on high Survival to make all those food bonuses stretch, but there's little room for Survival-boosting gear, whereas you get a class bonus to Lore and one of the best armors in the game provides a +2 Lore bonus.

 

The tricky part about the max defenses build is that hitting the 170+ point in 3 out of 4 defenses requires leveraging a lot of specific pieces of gear and food and resting bonuses, which might be daunting for someone on their first playthrough. That being said, even if you fall short of that goal, you'll still be in excellent shape against anything short of the Adra Dragon.

 

I'll be playing on normal difficulty, actually. I'm sure I won't need defenses that high on my playthrough. I guess I just want a solid Paladin/tank build. It is important that I have good dialogue choices as the PC, and I'm still a bit lost on which abilities and skills to invest in as I level. I like your suggestions, though I won't be playing a Darcozzi. What are some target defenses to hit on my difficulty? Any recommendations would be welcome.

 

 

J

[Kaigen42]

I seem to remember someone saying that enemy accuracy is boosted by +20 for PotD. If that's the case defenses up to 150+ should serve you just fine. Your high Perception and Resolve will give you plenty of good dialog choices, so no need to worry there. For skills, I'd suggest getting Athletics up to 4, then raising Lore and Survival more or less evenly, as they both unlock additional dialog options.

 

If you're going Shieldbearer, I'm a fan of picking up Lay on Hands and Shielding Touch as an early defense buff. Other people prefer Flames of Devotion and Shielding Flames, as that buffs deflection for your party, but it doesn't buff the Paladin, only allies, and I find Lay on Hands a more useful ability overall for a tank. On the other hand, if you're running with low Intellect, Lay on Hands may not be that useful after all, since its duration will be much shorter.

 

As for other abilities, the recent patch made auras a lot better and improved exhortations a bit, so the options aren't quite as dire as my OP suggests. Take whatever aura you like best, and consider picking up Sworn Enemy at level 5 and looking for a weapon with a good on-hit effect. Reviving Exhortation has been fixed (though I haven't had the chance to test it yet), so you can grab that at 7, and then everything that opens up at 9 is good, though with your specific build Righteous Soul might be the best option to compensate for that lower Will defense.