[Class Build] Rangerer

[Exoduss]

has nothing to do with guns either use arbalest if you dont like guns just not a bow

[Crucis]

has nothing to do with guns either use arbalest if you dont like guns just not a bow

 

Has nothing to do with guns, arbalests, or bows.  Has everything to do with you acting like a jerk to the OP.  Try being more civil.

[Exoduss]

jeesus you kids nowdays are so butthurt ,"civil" roflmao u even know what that means ... get lost 

[Blovski]

theory crafting something that is prooven to be garbage ( bows on ranger and animal companion talents like defensive bond ) is a waste of time , as its clear that pillars can be completed with any party with any builds or even without a party so if you prefer bows there is noone to stop you , another issue would be bringing it up to the forums and then denying any advice and sticking to bows seems like wasted 44 posts and a thread .

 

/thread

 

Pahaha wow.

 

My idea of viable is something that A) fulfills its role (YMMV as to what you think this means) and B) has features the alternatives for the role wouldn't. This build meets both of those criteria.

 

I'm not stopping people making a thread on Gun Rangers or Bow Rogues if they want to work out their perfectest most powerful DPS build to go with their minmaxed 3 might fighters that can't ever be hit by any enemy in the game ever. This is not really that thread, much as it's nice that the peripheral discussion allows you to pick out the little things a bow ranger build gives you.

[Crucis]

jeesus you kids nowdays are so butthurt ,"civil" roflmao u even know what that means ... get lost 

 

What makes you think that I'm a kid?  And for the record, I damned well know what "civil" means.  Why don't you get lost?  And try to be civil while you're at it. 

[rheingold]

Sagani with a good warbow rocks on hard difficulty, she does insane consistent damage, not spike damage. POTD, like heart of fury mode is not balanced, and you probably need min/maxed characters to do well. And frankly, for most people POTD is irrelevant. Ranger with a bow works fine on hard, if that floats your boat. Most definitely not gimped, in fact quite the opposite. Just get a decent bow like cloud piercer.

[Blovski]

Sagani with a good warbow rocks on hard difficulty, she does insane consistent damage, not spike damage. POTD, like heart of fury mode is not balanced, and you probably need min/maxed characters to do well. And frankly, for most people POTD is irrelevant. Ranger with a bow works fine on hard, if that floats your boat. Most definitely not gimped, in fact quite the opposite. Just get a decent bow like cloud piercer.

Eh, the key difficulty increases for POTD are defences and enemy accuracy. Rangers have the highest ranged accuracy of anyone and enemy accuracy isn't enormously relevant to a backline character. I'd be surprised if Rangers didn't scale pretty well.

[rheingold]

 

Sagani with a good warbow rocks on hard difficulty, she does insane consistent damage, not spike damage. POTD, like heart of fury mode is not balanced, and you probably need min/maxed characters to do well. And frankly, for most people POTD is irrelevant. Ranger with a bow works fine on hard, if that floats your boat. Most definitely not gimped, in fact quite the opposite. Just get a decent bow like cloud piercer.

 

Eh, the key difficulty increases for POTD are defences and enemy accuracy. Rangers have the highest ranged accuracy of anyone and enemy accuracy isn't enormously relevant to a backline character. I'd be surprised if Rangers didn't scale pretty well.

Could be, not having any experience on POTD, I don't know, but I do know that a ranger with bows/guns/arbelest is seriously underrated. And the pet is just gravy.

[Blovski]

Lack of an edit button is deeply frustrating.

Anyway, noteworthy updates:

 

- as of 1.05, Animal Companion Fatigue is being removed
- as of 1.05, Marked Prey is being made a free action, which drastically improves its value for this kind of build.

I am currently running a party with a custom hunting bow ranger NPC through PotD. This time, I'm running an Island Aumaua with a backup Arquebus and Scepter for encounters with high general/piercing DR. It certainly seems to be holding up just fine. Adra Animats are the main enemy that my archer backline (at level 8ish) doesn't really have much of an answer to and they're hardly a major challenge as long as my frontline are alive; otherwise I'm very pleased with the performance.

Considerations with War Bows - 

Fine War Bows seem to be easier to find early on than Fine Hunting Bows. Defiance Bay contains two of the game's best War Bows. Borresaine is a Fine Stunning, Draining War Bow, which can be purchased in the Copperlane Market. Since your Ranger is a crit machine, it works very well for them and if you're not planning to join the Dozens, you should pick it up as soon as you arrive.

Cloudpiercer is a Fine, Spell Striking: Jolting Touch, Rending War Bow and is a reward for The Bronze Beneath The Lake, requiring you to side with the Dozens. You can also get it by murdering Wenan, if you're that determined. Rending is great. Spell Striking is something I've never been able to work out when it does and doesn't trigger. I'm honestly not sure if it is or isn't better than Borresaine but it would save you 10,000ish gold for a Figurine or the faction vendor accessories.

Either of these will carry you up until the third (I think) round of Bounties (requires act 3 and a few difficult fights), where you can pick up The Rain of Godagh Field, a Superb Speed (I should note that Speed is apparently bugged/not working as intended currently) War Bow, off of the Foemyna Bounty (Woodend Plains). Honestly if you're not angling for other Bounty equipment and you're prepared to up the quality enchantments, you can probably just take Borresaine and use it to the end of the game.

Edited May 2, 2015 by Blovski

[Crucis]

Lack of an edit button is deeply frustrating.

 

Anyway, noteworthy updates:

 

- as of 1.05, Animal Companion Fatigue is being removed

- as of 1.05, Marked Prey is being made a free action, which drastically improves its value for this kind of build.

 

I am currently running a party with a custom hunting bow ranger NPC through PotD. This time, I'm running an Island Aumaua with a backup Arquebus and Scepter for encounters with high general/piercing DR. It certainly seems to be holding up just fine. Adra Animats are the main enemy that my archer backline (at level 8ish) doesn't really have much of an answer to and they're hardly a major challenge as long as my frontline are alive; otherwise I'm very pleased with the performance.

 

Considerations with War Bows - 

 

Fine War Bows seem to be easier to find early on than Fine Hunting Bows. Defiance Bay contains two of the game's best War Bows. Borresaine is a Fine Stunning, Draining War Bow, which can be purchased in the Copperlane Market. Since your Ranger is a crit machine, it works very well for them and if you're not planning to join the Dozens, you should pick it up as soon as you arrive.

 

Cloudpiercer is a Fine, Spell Striking: Jolting Touch, Rending War Bow and is a reward for The Bronze Beneath The Lake, requiring you to side with the Dozens. Rending is great. Spell Striking is something I've never been able to work out when it does and doesn't trigger. I'm honestly not sure if it is or isn't better than Borresaine but it would save you 10,000ish gold for a Figurine or the faction vendor accessories.

 

Either of these will carry you up until the third (I think) round of Bounties (requires act 3 and a few difficult fights), where you can pick up The Rain of Godagh Field, a Superb Speed War Bow, off of the Foemyna Bounty (Woodend Plains).

 

IIRC, from what I've read in here, a Spell Striking effect only triggers once per encounter (unfortunately).  Spell Striking: Jolting Touch is an excellent effect, since it zaps a number of nearby enemies with strong amount of shock damage (see the Jolting Tough spell for the exact numbers, I suppose).  I actually added a +25% shock damage effect to Cloudpiercer because it felt like a really good extra bonus from a roleplaying perspective.

 

Is it better than Borresaine?  I don't know.  I think that I like it better, but I'll admit that that's not the same as knowing whether it's really better or not.  Of course, as you pint out, Cloudpiercer's availability is more limited than Borresaine's, to take that for what it's worth.  I will say that the Stunning effect's time seems rather limited on Borresaine.  3 seconds, IIRC?

 

 

The Rain of Godagh Field warbow is technical better than the other warbows, being as it's a Superb weapon.  OTOH, I found it rather boring since it didn't have any other interesting effects (besides, Speed, IIRC).

 

 

 

Speaking of Marked Prey above.  When you say that it will become a "free action", do you mean that it can be used an unlimited number of times per encounter? 

[rheingold]

Nope the change to marked prey is that it is now instantaneous, there is no casting time. It can still only be used once an encounter. Still with the AC fatigue issue fixed and marked prey not taking up any casting time it's a pretty big improvement for rangers. Still not sure if the speed bonus on weapons actually works. If not they need to fix that.

[Blovski]

 

Lack of an edit button is deeply frustrating.

 

Anyway, noteworthy updates:

 

- as of 1.05, Animal Companion Fatigue is being removed

- as of 1.05, Marked Prey is being made a free action, which drastically improves its value for this kind of build.

 

I am currently running a party with a custom hunting bow ranger NPC through PotD. This time, I'm running an Island Aumaua with a backup Arquebus and Scepter for encounters with high general/piercing DR. It certainly seems to be holding up just fine. Adra Animats are the main enemy that my archer backline (at level 8ish) doesn't really have much of an answer to and they're hardly a major challenge as long as my frontline are alive; otherwise I'm very pleased with the performance.

 

Considerations with War Bows - 

 

Fine War Bows seem to be easier to find early on than Fine Hunting Bows. Defiance Bay contains two of the game's best War Bows. Borresaine is a Fine Stunning, Draining War Bow, which can be purchased in the Copperlane Market. Since your Ranger is a crit machine, it works very well for them and if you're not planning to join the Dozens, you should pick it up as soon as you arrive.

 

Cloudpiercer is a Fine, Spell Striking: Jolting Touch, Rending War Bow and is a reward for The Bronze Beneath The Lake, requiring you to side with the Dozens. Rending is great. Spell Striking is something I've never been able to work out when it does and doesn't trigger. I'm honestly not sure if it is or isn't better than Borresaine but it would save you 10,000ish gold for a Figurine or the faction vendor accessories.

 

Either of these will carry you up until the third (I think) round of Bounties (requires act 3 and a few difficult fights), where you can pick up The Rain of Godagh Field, a Superb Speed War Bow, off of the Foemyna Bounty (Woodend Plains).

 

IIRC, from what I've read in here, a Spell Striking effect only triggers once per encounter (unfortunately).  Spell Striking: Jolting Touch is an excellent effect, since it zaps a number of nearby enemies with strong amount of shock damage (see the Jolting Tough spell for the exact numbers, I suppose).  I actually added a +25% shock damage effect to Cloudpiercer because it felt like a really good extra bonus from a roleplaying perspective.

 

Is it better than Borresaine?  I don't know.  I think that I like it better, but I'll admit that that's not the same as knowing whether it's really better or not.  Of course, as you pint out, Cloudpiercer's availability is more limited than Borresaine's, to take that for what it's worth.  I will say that the Stunning effect's time seems rather limited on Borresaine.  3 seconds, IIRC?

 

 

The Rain of Godagh Field warbow is technical better than the other warbows, being as it's a Superb weapon.  OTOH, I found it rather boring since it didn't have any other interesting effects (besides, Speed, IIRC).

 

Speaking of Marked Prey above.  When you say that it will become a "free action", do you mean that it can be used an unlimited number of times per encounter? 

 

Ah, that explains a lot about Spell Striking. Jolting Touch is pretty great in the early game and electrical damage is really useful against a lot of Pierce-Resistant enemies (Platemail wearers and Animats especially) and Rending is generally a good thing to have on Bows. I seem to be getting reasonably good stuns (6-10s) on Borresaine out of my Rogue on my current game.

 

WRT Marked Prey, next patch it ought to have zero recharge time, so you can use it and then instantly do other things.

[Sanctuary]

Swift aim is useless with a bow, because a bow doesn't have reload. It is quite decent for firearms.

Wait what?  Do you mean it doesn't work, as in "it's just not as good for bows as it is for guns"?  Because it technically does give an increased amount of shots with bows.  It doesn't just affect reload time, and a stopwatch will show you as much. 

[the streaker]

This discussion happened alrdy on other threads : rangers with war bows dont do half the damage of the real build , i played both and it is massive difference , also rogue with same warbow will outdamage ranger atleast twice

 

Reloading can be improved in many many ways ( gunner , swift aim , chanters chant , weapon with speed like forgiveness or holdwall , and last but not least le quick switch)

 

Can you guys post some numbers or something? Everyone says rogue does twice the damage, but where are the figures?

[Blovski]

 

This discussion happened alrdy on other threads : rangers with war bows dont do half the damage of the real build , i played both and it is massive difference , also rogue with same warbow will outdamage ranger atleast twice

 

Reloading can be improved in many many ways ( gunner , swift aim , chanters chant , weapon with speed like forgiveness or holdwall , and last but not least le quick switch)

 

Can you guys post some numbers or something? Everyone says rogue does twice the damage, but where are the figures?

 

Rogues deal more damage if an enemy is vulnerable to sneak attack. They have lower accuracy and don't have driving flight, stunning shot or binding roots. Will a Ranger archer fill its role adequately on PotD? Yes. Will it offer some things that a rogue doesn't? Yes. Hence, it's a viable build even if it's not dealing the highest potential damage.

If people want to make their own Ranger-gunner thread, I'd welcome it as a contrast, and I'm certainly going to consider trying it out next run. The point of this thread was to illustrate the viability of and discuss the nuances of bow ranger builds.

 

For me personally, the combination of quick switch fatigue (will be improved by the next patch, I think) and the feat investment required to get the most out of a gunner kinda puts me off. I believe a Ranger built for that will have a whopping -22 aim relative to the bow build (-5 firearms, -10 no vicious aim, -7 swift aim), -27 if you have to go Island Aumaua instead of Wood Elf for The Most Possible Guns and will not have space for a spell-binding item in their off-hand. That is a lot of hits, crits and grazes you'll be missing out on and you need the rest of your party (Sure-Handed Chanter, accuracy buffing Priest etc) to be built around it.

 

Additional info, you can actually acquire Cloudpiercer by murdering Wenan if you're so inclined.

[Sanctuary]

Additional info, you can actually acquire Cloudpiercer by murdering Wenan if you're so inclined.

 

 

Is this so you can get the crit bonus from the Doemenels?  Also, regarding the Cloudpiercer vs whatever else Hunting/War Bow, you could always just use Cloudpiercer until it procs and then switch to another bow for utility I guess.  Only downside is you'd need twice as much for enchantments (triple if you use another slot too), which I'm not sure some are actually factoring into these theorycrafted "best" setups.

[Blovski]

 

Additional info, you can actually acquire Cloudpiercer by murdering Wenan if you're so inclined.

 

 

Is this so you can get the crit bonus from the Doemenels?  Also, regarding the Cloudpiercer vs whatever else Hunting/War Bow, you could always just use Cloudpiercer until it procs and then switch to another bow for utility I guess.  Only downside is you'd need twice as much for enchantments (triple if you use another slot too), which I'm not sure some are actually factoring into these theorycrafted "best" setups.

 

Well, it's a bit niche/psychotic but you then get your talent of choice (crit if your ranger's the lead, DR if you have a tank as the main character) and you can pick up one of the other factions' second quest rewards as well. Yeah, you could do that but since Cloudpiercer has Rending anyway it'd probably be more efficient in terms of inventory slots and crafting thingies to just pick one and stick with it.

[b0rsuk]

For me personally, the combination of quick switch fatigue (will be improved by the next patch, I think) and the feat investment required to get the most out of a gunner kinda puts me off. I believe a Ranger built for that will have a whopping -22 aim relative to the bow build (-5 firearms, -10 no vicious aim, -7 swift aim), -27 if you have to go Island Aumaua instead of Wood Elf for The Most Possible Guns and will not have space for a spell-binding item in their off-hand. That is a lot of hits, crits and grazes you'll be missing out on and you need the rest of your party (Sure-Handed Chanter, accuracy buffing Priest etc) to be built around it.

 

Additional info, you can actually acquire Cloudpiercer by murdering Wenan if you're so inclined.

 

 

I'm going to try Swift Aim arquebus ranger somewhere in the future. Swift Aim, because those +25% damage criticals are not worth it. Swift and Steady is a talent giving +5 Accuracy in Swift Aim mode, so Swift Aim only has a penalty of -2, not -7. -7 is with gun accuracy. If you add an animal as target spotter, you end up at +3.

In fact, a party with 3 shooters (archery contest) is on my list of things to try.

[Blovski]

 

For me personally, the combination of quick switch fatigue (will be improved by the next patch, I think) and the feat investment required to get the most out of a gunner kinda puts me off. I believe a Ranger built for that will have a whopping -22 aim relative to the bow build (-5 firearms, -10 no vicious aim, -7 swift aim), -27 if you have to go Island Aumaua instead of Wood Elf for The Most Possible Guns and will not have space for a spell-binding item in their off-hand. That is a lot of hits, crits and grazes you'll be missing out on and you need the rest of your party (Sure-Handed Chanter, accuracy buffing Priest etc) to be built around it.

 

Additional info, you can actually acquire Cloudpiercer by murdering Wenan if you're so inclined.

 

 

I'm going to try Swift Aim arquebus ranger somewhere in the future. Swift Aim, because those +25% damage criticals are not worth it. Swift and Steady is a talent giving +5 Accuracy in Swift Aim mode, so Swift Aim only has a penalty of -2, not -7. -7 is with gun accuracy. If you add an animal as target spotter, you end up at +3.

In fact, a party with 3 shooters (archery contest) is on my list of things to try.

 

Ah, with Swift and Steady that's a less extreme -17 total relative to the bow build. I think my next run'll have one with a chanter and priest for the necessary support. Would maybe drop stunning shot for something else with the lower rate of fire. I suspect that if you're building for the unique Ranger quick reload it's superfluous to go the whole hog with Island Aumaua, Quick Switch etc.

 

General question: Is anyone getting mileage out of implements as Rangers? There are some really good ones in Od Nua and it gives you a different damage type to your other backliners.

[b0rsuk]

General answer: why Ranger with an implement when you can have a monk ? Dangerous Implement, Human, Swift Strikes, Lightning Strikes (25% in 1.05), Turning Wheel.

Edited May 2, 2015 by b0rsuk

[Crucis]

General answer: why Ranger with an implement when you can have a monk ? Dangerous Implement, Human, Swift Strikes, Lightning Strikes (25% in 1.05), Turning Wheel.

 

One possible answer.

 

I tend to play in a rather role-playing style, so I tend to not see magical implements as something that should be used by anyone other than wizards, and I suppose Ciphers and perhaps Chanters.  And maybe a priest that was being role played as a backline spellcaster who didn't even wear much of any armor.  OTOH, the idea of normal non-spellcasting combatants using magical implements seems wrong to me.  At least outside the normal stereotype for a fantasy setting.

[Manty5]

Wounding shot's quite nice for a firearms-ranger.  I'm running Sagani with dual pistols and it's a really nice opener to Wounding shot-swap-Wounding shot on the two most dangerous  squishies.  When that squishie is also a melee (Like Xaurip Skirmashers with paralyse), the hobble is even a nice bonus.

 

A Warbow rogue with a Gun Ranger is a nice pair to take out high-value backrow targets.  You just need a blind on top to activate deathblows.

 

Also:  Way too many people on these forums saying that they're "role-playing" when what they're ACTUALLY doing is finding an excuse to hold to ancient D&D conventions instead of adapting to PoE's universe.  PoE isn't a place where monks run around naked (although sometimes they do go unarmed) and Priests are front-line fighters infused with powerful self-only buffs and only wizards use wands.  For example if you want to make a Paladin that's like its D&D counterpart, that's fine.  But don't say that you're roleplaying better than the guy who treats them more like war-leaders than holy warriors.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Manty5

[Crucis]

Wounding shot's quite nice for a firearms-ranger.  I'm running Sagani with dual pistols and it's a really nice opener to Wounding shot-swap-Wounding shot on the two most dangerous  squishies.  When that squishie is also a melee (Like Xaurip Skirmashers with paralyse), the hobble is even a nice bonus.

 

A Warbow rogue with a Gun Ranger is a nice pair to take out high-value backrow targets.  You just need a blind on top to activate deathblows.

 

Also:  Way too many people on these forums saying that they're "role-playing" when what they're ACTUALLY doing is finding an excuse to hold to ancient D&D conventions instead of adapting to PoE's universe.  PoE isn't a place where monks run around naked (although sometimes they do go unarmed) and Priests are front-line fighters infused with powerful self-only buffs and only wizards use wands.  For example if you want to make a Paladin that's like its D&D counterpart, that's fine.  But don't say that you're roleplaying better than the guy who treats them more like war-leaders than holy warriors.

 

1. If people want to role play their characters in a certain way, why not just leave them be?  If they want to RP in a more DnD stereotypical way, I don't really care.   As for Paladin as war-leaders vs holy warriors, I think that this was a bad decision.  It's seems to have made paladins into rather weak and a bit boring shadows of what they were in the old IE games, particularly BG2.

 

2. I'm not all that enamored with pistols.  Oh, sure, they can hit hard.  There's no denying that.  My problem with them is their short range, which I find rather limiting.  I suppose that pistols (and blunderbusses) aren't so bad on front liners, particularly if you're only going to fire one shot and switch to melee weapons.  But for back liners, it seems to me that longer ranged weapons would give you more flexibility.  That said, if pistols float your boat, more power to ya.

Edited May 26, 2015 by Crucis

[Manty5]

> If people want to role play their characters in a certain way, why not just leave them be?  If they want to RP in a more DnD stereotypical way, I don't really care. 

 

You're misunderstanding cause and effect.  I'm perfectly happy leaving them be.  It's their tromping around the forums lecturing people about how they're worshipping the one true roleplaying God that's offensive.  Maybe they don't actually mean it that way, but they're terrible writers if so because that's how they come off.

 

They're almost as bad as the "lowering a stat to 8 is min-maxing" crowd.  Can't enter a forum anymore without them sniffing down their long noses.

 

> I'm not all that enamored with pistols.  Oh, sure, they can hit hard.  There's no denying that.  My problem with them is their short range, which I find rather limiting.

 

They're only 2m shorter than aquebuses, reload and fire quicker (important if you're not using quick switch cheese), have a good enough damage to reload ratio to make taking the reload talents worthwhile, and you have one with a crit bonus that is of more magnitude than the inherent penalty.  I think I read somewhere here that the overall DPS for a rogue with a pistol outdamaged all the other choices.

 

However, what you say is totally true.  You have to be careful to move the front lines forward enough so that the ranger can reach the enemy mages.  I admit there are times I'm tempted to go arbalest or crossbow and say foo to the DPS.  Maybe when that one speed arbalest is fixed.

[Crucis]

> If people want to role play their characters in a certain way, why not just leave them be?  If they want to RP in a more DnD stereotypical way, I don't really care. 

 

You're misunderstanding cause and effect.  I'm perfectly happy leaving them be.  It's their tromping around the forums lecturing people about how they're worshipping the one true roleplaying God that's offensive.  Maybe they don't actually mean it that way, but they're terrible writers if so because that's how they come off.

 

They're almost as bad as the "lowering a stat to 8 is min-maxing" crowd.  Can't enter a forum anymore without them sniffing down their long noses.

 

> I'm not all that enamored with pistols.  Oh, sure, they can hit hard.  There's no denying that.  My problem with them is their short range, which I find rather limiting.

 

They're only 2m shorter than aquebuses, reload and fire quicker (important if you're not using quick switch cheese), have a good enough damage to reload ratio to make taking the reload talents worthwhile, and you have one with a crit bonus that is of more magnitude than the inherent penalty.  I think I read somewhere here that the overall DPS for a rogue with a pistol outdamaged all the other choices.

 

However, what you say is totally true.  You have to be careful to move the front lines forward enough so that the ranger can reach the enemy mages.  I admit there are times I'm tempted to go arbalest or crossbow and say foo to the DPS.  Maybe when that one speed arbalest is fixed.

 

1.  Perhaps you find them offensive, but remember that PoE, like the BG and IWD games, is a computer role playing game.  Is it really any surprise that role players think that min-maxers aren't playing the game the way it's meant to be played?    Or for that matter, maybe you should understand that some of them may find extreme power gamers "offensive" because the role players see them as going against the spirit of a role playing game.

 

As for "Can't enter a forum anymore without them sniffing down their long noses", while I won't claim that you're doing this, I've certainly had some power gamers look down their noses at me, a moderate role player who min-maxes a little, when I try to talk builds.  Some of them seem to think that the Characters, etc. sub-forum only exists for their (i.e. the extreme min-maxing power gamers') use.  They insult me for daring to suggest less than perfectly efficient character builds.

 

 

 

2. Regarding pistols:  It's a good point that pistols hit nearly as hard as rifles (I'm getting tired of calling them arquebusses, too hard to spell), and fire more quickly, though at the expense of range, which is 80% of a rifle's range.    I actually have my current party's ranged rogue use a rifle or an arbalest for an opening shot (for the maximum damage) and a warbow (Cloudpiercer) for the rest of the battle, for the rate of fire.  (She also has the Arms bearer talent for the 3rd weapon slot for her melee weapon.)  So, I don't find the idea of using two ranged weapons all that strange.

 

Anyways, I don't doubt that pistols can be nasty weapons and all.  I just don't like giving up the range of bows and crossbows/arbalests for a sniper character (like a ranger or a ranged rogue), since there's value in being to hit targets at that range.  Still, that's not to say that there can't be a role for a pistoleer in a party.  Maybe a cipher would be a good choice for a pistoleer?  Just a thought.

 

You're right about "Speed" weapons.  It's a shame that they don't work (yet), ranged or melee.