Spells per encounter: A gentle slide

[James Harrison]

TL/DR: I think giving casters one spell "per encounter" every three levels would be cool, and not overpowered. <Edit: in a later post I talk myself round too one spell per 4 levels... look for the green.>

 

It's been mentioned before that there is an odd disjoint in the power level of casters (Clerics, Druids and Wizards). Notably at 9th level all their 1st level spells become per encounter (and similarly their 2nd level spells become 'per encounter' at 11th level). I, and some others, think that a more gradual unlocking of 'per encounter' spells would be good for the game.

 

Given patch 1.05 will partly address balance issues I believe it isn't unreasonable to expect that some update to "per encounter" spells, and the rate they are acquired, may be implemented. Thus I wanted to discuss (& suggest) rates of 'per encounter' spell acquisition,So here we go...

 

Classes seems to be designed around a two level cycle: Every two levels you get a class related ability (for casters this is access to a new level of spells), and one talent. This pattern lends itself to gaining 'once per encounter' spell slots every two levels. I personally feel this could be too powerful (or too dull). Why? I'd like my per encounter spells to increase in their spell level - so at this rate by level 9 I'd have have 4 per encounter spells, and they'd either all be level one (quite dull) or they would be from different levels; a level one, two, three and four spell... which means I would feel significantly more powerful than the current 9th level caster.

 

This pattern also steps on some of the Cypher's toes (kicking out their most powerful abilities every encounter), and leaves only the most powerful spells a truly limited resource. Still this might be ok (say combined with a reduction in maximum spells cast per level from 4 to 3).

 

I favour a less powerful approach, of having one spell being made per encounter every 3 levels. While this breaks the "every two levels" aspect of levelling, it does gain me cool abilities at a rate that isn't too slow, and doesn't outdo the other classes. This progression seems like it would really shine past 12th level - not overloading casters with too many per encounter abilities, but giving them enough to cast spells in "easy fights" without cost.

 

OK, what are your thoughts?

Edited April 18, 2015 by James Harrison

[View619]

One encounter spell every three levels, beginning with one cast of Level 1 spells once your character hits level 4. That could become 2 casts at Level 7, 3 casts at Level 9 then you move on to Level 2 spells once your character hits Level 11 and repeat the process.

 

Make this the progression for all spell casters, where Druids and Priests must select a specific spell per cast (e.g. For Priest, one cast of Barbs of Condemnation and one of Restore Minor Endurance OR two of either), and Wizards are able to mix up the different spells available through the use of their Grimoire (e.g. Mage can have two casts of slicken, then decide to switch it to two casts of Fan of Flames at will).

 

That's my suggestion.

[BrickleberryPi]

I suggested basically something like this in a previous post of mine. However, a response that caught me off guard was basically that having per encounter spells of each level would mean the player would have to select one particular spell. In turn, this would harm the wizard's best strength: versatility.

 

I think I would probably make a different suggestion from OP by saying that at level 6, casting arcane assault will grant the wizard a combat only level one spell use. Every three levels after that, arcane assault will add another spell level. That way, by level 12, a wizard will potentially get six combat only spell uses across three spell levels.

[Jojobobo]

I don't see why this should be done. Early level spells like Fan of Flames and Slicken are still very powerful at high levels, per encounter would trivialise combat a great deal.

[James Harrison]

So the issue is that at level 9 all your 1st  level spells become per encounter... this is a huge jump in power. Moreover at level 11 all your 2nd level spells become per encounter... one caster has 8 spells he cast cast almost non-stop - meaning the current system can trivialise combat at higher levels... I believe the issue is not limited to wizards, as it seems that druids and priests get this buff.

 

We could scrap the per encounter spells all together - however this is less fun for casters, having to much a reliance on resting... we could keep the current system, with its problems (and potential issues in the future -at level 15 all 1st, 2nd 3rd and 4th level spells per encounter anyone? That's what should happen extrapolating the current system) - or we need to find some way of changing the casters. This is what I am suggesting; one possiable way of changing them which is fun, and not overpowered (Subject to discussion)

 

The arcane assault idea is interesting, and would require priests and druids "encounter casts" to become tied to their radiance and spirit-shift respectively. I don't know if that is fun or fiddly, but it's certainly worth investigating.

 

Lets see what this looks like:

 

One Spell Per 3 levels; spell level rising.

Level 3   - One spell per encounter (One 1st level spell)

Level 6   - Two spells per encounter (One 1st & one 2nd level spell)

Level 9   - Three spell per encounter (One 1st, one 2nd & one 3rd level spell)

Level 12 - Four spells per encounter (One 1st, one 2nd, one 3rd & one 4th level spell)

 

That is what I would like to see. I don't think the power gain is too sharp and I think having a variety of per encounter spells is fun. However having higher level spells as per encounter spells might bee too good. A few of ways to offset this come to mind. 1) Starting the progression later, 2) Having a couple of the spells stack at each level before getting two the next spell tier... eg: (not actually a spoiler)

 

 

One Spell Per 3 levels; spell level slowly rising.
Level 3 - One spell per encounter (One 1st level spell)
Level 6 - Two spells per encounter (Two 1st level spells)
Level 9 - Three spell per encounter (Two 1st and one 2nd spell)
Level 12 - Four spells per encounter (Two 1st and Two 2nd level spells)

 

 

This might be more balanced, I'd just prefer throwing around more "big spells" more frequently... I don't prefer trivialising combat, so this could be the way to go. Assuming this is more balanced than a per encounter 4th level spell seems reasonable - but might not be. It's certainly is less powerful, yet if I just want to cast my bigger spells I can rest a reasonable amount (even on hard)... having higher level spells per encounter, as long as they are not game breaking, means less resting between a caster (in my case my wizard) being fun. I'll look at one final progression - once per 4 levels:

 

One Spell Per 4 levels; spell level rising.
Level 4 - One spell per encounter (One 1st level spell)
Level 8 - Two spells per encounter (One 1st & one 2nd level spell)
Level 12 - Three spell per encounter (One 1st, one 2nd & one 3rd level spell)
 

 

I guess this is the super cautious approach. It's enough spells to make casters meaningful in every encounter (Durance always has a withdraw to save me in a pinch! Woot!), but doesn't risk spells becoming two over powering (quadratic casters?)... even at high levels. It is the lower half of your spells known that have One spell being per encounter. At 20th level this means you could be casting 5th level spells every fight - but you have 10th level spells... which should massively outshine them when needed! Gah! I think I've talked myself into liking this progression best... I still get lots of cool toys, I can be relevant in every fight, but don't feel I can cake walk anything or that I'm able to frequently cast my highest level spells without cost. Yup, this is a progression I would be very happy to see in the game! 

Edited April 18, 2015 by James Harrison