Does Turning wheel affect all damage?

[Raven Darkholme]

With the monkability turning wheel: Does it affect damage done by retaliate and rooting pain, too?

[Casildar]

Retaliate, yes.  Rooting Pain, no.  Turning Wheel affects melee damage.  Retaliations are considered melee attacks, but Rooting Pain is an aoe.  Turning Wheel affects the the damage done to the initial target of Torment's Reach, for instance, but not the damage done to anything in the cone behind the target.

[Raven Darkholme]

Thank you.

[gkathellar]

IIRC, Turning Wheel affects all full attack damage, melee or ranged. Someone did testing on Dangerous Implement monks, and said it applied to their attacks.

 

Retaliation is a full attack. Rooting Pain is not a full attack, though. So that.

[Casildar]

Oh, I did see that Implement thread.  Wasn't thinking about ranged attacks.  I don't think it's an issue of full vs primary attack, though.  Retaliate is its own thing, unrelated to the weapon you're wielding.  It seems to have its own damage range and type.  Force of Anguish isn't a full attack, but TW applies to its damage.

[Raven Darkholme]

Hm, still not sure whether it's worth it, 5% seems so low...

[gkathellar]

Hm, still not sure whether it's worth it, 5% seems so low...

That depends on how quickly you can build Wounds.

[Casildar]

I spent the last two days messing around with various monk builds for a tcs attempt.  Finally decided not to take Turning Wheel.  What ultimately sealed the deal was that wounds only last 10-12 seconds.  I felt like by the time I'd built up 8-10 wounds, I only had a small handful of seconds at best before I started to lose stacks.

 

Because the way % damage effects are applied (see here for info http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/74865-damage-bug-vs-dr/), the value per stack at 4 or fewer stacks is not 5%.  I felt like the tradeoff that, if I'm reading that right, at 6-10 stacks each would be more valuable than 5% per would be worth it if I could control my stacks by letting them ramp up to 8, 9, or 10 and then spend them in a controlled fashion. But since wounds have a duration, that's not possible.

 

Couple that with it becoming progressively more difficult to generate stacks as enemies start to die and I felt like there wasn't enough player control over resource management to make Turning Wheel appealing.   I really dislike wounds fading, particularly because it seems like it's just a holdover from the old system where wounds actually soaked some damage and then applied it over time.  It made sense for the wound to fade once the damage it had soaked was fully applied.  No idea why that part stayed in when the rest changed.

 

Anyway, it's possible later on in PotD I'll find myself consistently staying at 7+ wounds so I'm leaving the option open of taking TW at 9th level.

[The Josip]

I spent the last two days messing around with various monk builds for a tcs attempt.  Finally decided not to take Turning Wheel.  What ultimately sealed the deal was that wounds only last 10-12 seconds.  I felt like by the time I'd built up 8-10 wounds, I only had a small handful of seconds at best before I started to lose stacks.

 

Because the way % damage effects are applied (see here for info http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/74865-damage-bug-vs-dr/), the value per stack at 4 or fewer stacks is not 5%.  I felt like the tradeoff that, if I'm reading that right, at 6-10 stacks each would be more valuable than 5% per would be worth it if I could control my stacks by letting them ramp up to 8, 9, or 10 and then spend them in a controlled fashion. But since wounds have a duration, that's not possible.

 

Couple that with it becoming progressively more difficult to generate stacks as enemies start to die and I felt like there wasn't enough player control over resource management to make Turning Wheel appealing.   I really dislike wounds fading, particularly because it seems like it's just a holdover from the old system where wounds actually soaked some damage and then applied it over time.  It made sense for the wound to fade once the damage it had soaked was fully applied.  No idea why that part stayed in when the rest changed.

 

Anyway, it's possible later on in PotD I'll find myself consistently staying at 7+ wounds so I'm leaving the option open of taking TW at 9th level.

 

For me it's easier to get lots of Wounds because I use 6 dps monks without armor and one good hit can results in 8+ Wounds. Since they are all Moon godlike endurance gets restored fast, making it easier to accumulate more Wounds (and not to die of course).

 

Regardless of that I'm still testing whether Turning Wheel is worth it because:

a) I've read that thread before

b) They negate other monk abilities; you either benefit from TW or you use other abilities and thus have no Wounds (damn if you do damn if you don't).

c) That 12 sec wound duration is BS, and to be honest the more I read about the monk more frustrated I am because it seems that everything that could be coded wrong is coded wrong. Thankfully, 90% of battles in this game are over within these 12 sec which is a reason I even went with 6 dps monks (instead of using Chanters which are even more broken class).

[Odd Hermit]

IIRC, Turning Wheel affects all full attack damage, melee or ranged. Someone did testing on Dangerous Implement monks, and said it applied to their attacks.

 

Retaliation is a full attack. Rooting Pain is not a full attack, though. So that.

 

If only all classes got blast talents. :[

 

I tried making a Wand Monk. It still did decent ranged damage but it's just not worth it w/out blast.

[Casildar]

 

For me it's easier to get lots of Wounds because I use 6 dps monks without armor and one good hit can results in 8+ Wounds. Since they are all Moon godlike endurance gets restored fast, making it easier to accumulate more Wounds (and not to die of course).

 

Regardless of that I'm still testing whether Turning Wheel is worth it because:

a) I've read that thread before

b) They negate other monk abilities; you either benefit from TW or you use other abilities and thus have no Wounds (damn if you do damn if you don't).

c) That 12 sec wound duration is BS, and to be honest the more I read about the monk more frustrated I am because it seems that everything that could be coded wrong is coded wrong. Thankfully, 90% of battles in this game are over within these 12 sec which is a reason I even went with 6 dps monks (instead of using Chanters which are even more broken class).

 

 

Yeah, I'm just doing solo so taking tolerable levels of damage and sort of wound starved or I have plenty of wounds but that means I'm likely dead in the next few seconds.  I agree with a), b), and c) though. The first sentence of c) twice. (Since I have plenty of fights way longer than 12 seconds solo.)

 

The only thing that would make b) tolerable would be the ability to accrue 10 wounds, spend 1-2, get 1-2 back, spend, etc.  But obviously can't do that with the duration.  Even then, I really like Flagellant's Path and the 3 wound cost would really cut into TW stacks.

 

 

 

If only all classes got blast talents. :[

 

I tried making a Wand Monk. It still did decent ranged damage but it's just not worth it w/out blast.

 

 

Sounded like a neat idea.  Sad that it's not workable.