PC Retail DRM?

[DRM-FREE]

Hi. Just want to find out if the PC retail version of Pillars of Eternity will have DRM.

Yes, I know the GOG version has no DRM but I would like to buy a retail version without DRM.

 

So does retail = Steam? Or can I look forwards to retail not having DRM?

[LadyCrimson]

Yes, retail boxed versions = Steam.

 

DRM-free copies of the game are either GoG (digital) or from the Kickstarter backer tiers as one of the tier rewards.

[DRM-FREE]

Damn. Looked like a game that I could add to my collection to play for many years. There really should be DRM-FREE options for retail.

 

Thanks for answering.

[Maviarab]

Why not just buy it on GoG and put the files onto a disc, print a cover off for a DVD case?

[santanzchild]

Damn. Looked like a game that I could add to my collection to play for many years. There really should be DRM-FREE options for retail.

 

Thanks for answering.

 

Almost noone does DRM free anymore.  That is why it was such a big perk for backers.  I am sure you can get in on it when the expansion KS comes around if they go that route.

[DRM-FREE]

To me it's sad that Steam (DRM) has encumbered the retail PC market. You say that it's a big perk for the backers to not have DRM. That means that there is still a big market for DRM-FREE games at retail. There needs to be a way for both to live in the same world.

 

Release games early with DRM. Make the money from day 1 sales. Then Patch and fix the games.Release the DLC, make more money. Patch and fix again. When there is an complete game with little bugs, release the DRM-FREE game at retail.

I would wait for a DRM-FREE version at retail. People are like waiting for game of the year editions. Just make that the DRM-FREE edition.

 

Point is, I want Pillars of Eternity. I want the manual. I want the map. I want the DRM-FREE retail product. I really want to buy this game, not just to play but to support Obsidian. I just wished they made a product for me to support.

[santanzchild]

The problem is most publishers will not let a DRM free game out the door it just makes it to easy to pirate and they look at that as money coming straight out of there pocket.  It is a sad state for the industry and one that the market is finally pulling back from but it is still the current state of the industry.

[DRM-FREE]

I don't want to start a DRM debate on here. Just wanted to ask that question. But seeing as you mentioned it. I have to say.

 

DRM has nothing to do with piracy or pirates. As in nothing. I still see the DRM games being pirated. So DRM has nothing to do with pirates. It's just easy for them to point the finger at pirates.

I've been following the numbers for long time. Not going to go too much into it. What was the effect of Steam DRM. Less PC games sold. More consles and console games sold. Steam makes money off every PC game sold.

 

Steam only caters to the online/internet gamer. The offline/non internet gamer can't buy PC games. That offline/non Internet gamer is not going to go and download the pirated game.

 

The evil side to pirates is those who sell pirated games. Now you mentioned publishers + DRM = no pirates. Or that's how the lie is painted.

Xbox 360 saw a hell of a lot of flased consoles and pirated games sold. But publishers were still making lots and lots of money from console games sold.

No DRM on retail console games and publishers are still making lots of money.

 

So it's not fair to use the pirate argument to explain DRM. DRM was never about the pirates. Just like the second-hand market has nothing to do with DRM on the Xbox One. Oh wait, that lie didn't work. Back to pirates.

[Matt516]

Just an FYI - Steam games do not have to have DRM. Steamworks DRM is available to devs/publishers, but not required for publishing on Steam. And many choose not to use Steam's DRM - plenty of Steam games can have the files copied anywhere and run without being logged into Steam at all (online OR offline mode). Just like GoG, you only have to log in to download/install the game, and can then do what you want with it afterwards. Partial list here: http://steam.wikia.com/wiki/List_of_DRM-free_games

 

Many Paradox games (PoE publisher) are DRM-free, actually. Mostly their grand strategy games.

 

Unfortunately, I just tested PoE and it is NOT DRM-free. Don't know why the hell Obsidian decided to go this route since they're releasing on GoG as well anyway, but there it is. Maybe if we raise enough of a stink about it, they'll remove Steamworks from the Steam version and make it DRM-free as well.

 

Seriously, Obsidian. Cut this crap.

Edited March 30, 2015 by Matt516

[dancingcrab]

@Matt516 How did you check/test for DRM?

[DRM-FREE]

He tried to sell the game and Steam said no. lol.

 

Using semantics is not really helping. DRM-FREE offers so much more than what you mentioned. So using one thing like starting a game without Steam after needing Steam before you could start the game without Steam, doesn't really scream DRM-FREE.

[Matt516]

@Matt516 How did you check/test for DRM?

 

Easiest way is to log completely out of Steam, then try and start the game from the game's *.exe in its folder. If the game starts up without Steam popping up a login box, it's DRM-free. PoE, unfortunately, popped up a login box when I did this. Bastion, on the other hand, started right up (because it's DRM-free on Steam).

 

Not sure if there's an easier way to check. If the "SteamworksNative.dll" file is in the game's folder, it's a good bet it's using Steamworks though. 

 

 

He tried to sell the game and Steam said no. lol.

 

Using semantics is not really helping. DRM-FREE offers so much more than what you mentioned. So using one thing like starting a game without Steam after needing Steam before you could start the game without Steam, doesn't really scream DRM-FREE.

 

I'm not sure you know what "DRM" means. It doesn't mean you can resell a game, it means the game doesn't have any Digital Rights Management (DRM) built in that requires some sort of authentication, internet connection, passkey, physical CD, etc before you can play it. Games without Steamworks (or any other 3rd party DRM) can be booted up as long as the game files are on your hard drive - period.

 

By your definition, GoG's games aren't DRM free either since you need to log into your GoG account to download a game you purchased from them. Non-DRM Steam games are the exact same way. Log in to download and install, then never log into Steam again (unless you want updates, in which case you have to log in again - as with GoG). You could even copy the files to a thumb drive and move them to another computer without Steam, and the game would still run just fine.

 

So if you want to use your weird funky definition... sure. But by the definition most people use... no. You can't claim GoG is DRM-free and non-Steamworks Steam games aren't DRM-free, because they function identically. Purchase, download, install, then play whenever you want with no strings attached. That's not semantical trickery, that's the definitions of words and concepts.

 

EDIT: Not that I'm against being able to resell games, mind. But not being able to do so is not DRM. In fact, in the age of digital distribution you'd pretty much need to have (actual) DRM in order to be able to resell games. Otherwise how would you transfer ownership?

Edited March 30, 2015 by Matt516

[DRM-FREE]

I was talking about RETAIL. Buying retail games. I don't think there is one game at retail with GOG codes to force you to install some GOG software before you can even install the game.

 

In the digital world DRM and DRM-FREE, same damn thing for the same damn users. And that's all fine. But I am speaking about DRM-FREE retail games. The retail gaming world = offline/non internet gamers and of course you online/internet users who wants Steam codes in everything. "Steam DRM-FREE" means what to the offline/non internet gamer? Still means they ain't buying the game at retail.

 

If you want to look at how a video game should be released where all gamers has the option to buy the game, meaning offline buyers and online buyers, look at CDPR's The Witcher 3. That is how video games should be released. No one is cut off from buying the game. All gamers has access to purchase the game. DRM and NON-DRM working together with no conflict.

Edited March 30, 2015 by DRM-FREE

[dancingcrab]

I was talking about RETAIL. Buying retail games. I don't there is one game at retail with GOG codes to force you to install some GOG software before you can even install the game.

 

Minor clarification: GOG doesn't "force you to install some GOG software" at any point.

[Matt516]

So by "DRM-free", you mean "purchasable and installable without an internet connection or any download client software installed".

 

Ok. Just FYI, that's not what the phrase "DRM-free" means - though I do agree with you that it would be nice to be able to purchase games from brick-and-mortar stores that can be installed without an internet connection. I agree with you on that sentiment and I'm not arguing with you there. Just... do know that you're using words to mean things that they do not mean. DRM-free and purchasing/installing without an internet connection are two completely different things.

[DRM-FREE]

A retail product and a digital product is not the same thing. Product value vs no value. So DRE-FREE is not the same as "Steam DRM-FREE" Technical, meanings, semantics, yes, but DRM-FREE at retail comes with so many options and product value, that can not be the same as "Steam DRM-FREE" because many of those options and product value is just not there with Steam in retail. That is what I am talking about. I'm not talking about, do you know what drm means.

 

And to the, Minor clarification: GOG doesn't "force you to install some GOG software" at any point., guy. I was making a retail example of how retail games don't come with a GOG code and you felt the need to clarify GOG digital installation.

Edited March 30, 2015 by DRM-FREE

[Matt516]

I mean... again... I'm not disagreeing with you in philosophy. But words have meanings. DRM = Digital Rights Management. Something that limits your ability to copy or use a digital product (song, game, etc). It's not an all-encompassing term for everything that inconveniences consumers in getting to their games. And given your username, I felt that it was important that I point that out.

[DRM-FREE]

I don't need an explanation on what DRM means nor how it works. My name is just about that question I asked all the way on the top. Will Pillars of Eternity = Steam at retail? That is all my name is about and that is all that I cared about knowing. But you felt the need to speak to me like I don't know anything and tried to play the semantics game with me, in order to promote DRM at retail by avoiding talking nor linking back to retail. lol. Same old ... just a different day.

[dancingcrab]

And to the, Minor clarification: GOG doesn't "force you to install some GOG software" at any point., guy. I was making a retail example of how retail games don't come with a GOG code and you felt the need to clarify GOG digital installation.

I felt the need to clarify an inaccuracy. You understand that "installing some [..] software", product redemption codes, and digital platforms are all different and totally discrete concepts/issues, right?

 

In fact, your terminology and analogies are so confused that your own example, referencing The Witcher 3, is flawed. That game will almost certainly come with a GOG code! Of course, being CDProjekt, you won't be required to use it.

 

I'm totally on board with DRM-free discs, and personally really dislike how all discs are little more than data files for a Steam-unlock these days.

[DRM-FREE]

See you say stuff like The Witcher 3 will come with a GOG code but it's just not true nor does it make sense. Here is why it doesn't make sense. The Witcher 3 PC version at retail will be DRM-FREE. Install the game and play. By adding a GOG code or even a Steam code into the box, that means you now have two copies of the game. Do you really think you will be getting two games for the price of one? Not likely, nor the meaning of DRM-FREE. lol. You guys are on some "meaning" expedition.

[dancingcrab]

They did it for The Witcher 2, albeit retroactively.

 

You really are coming across silly, you know. Both Matt516 and I have agreed we want Steam-free discs. Yet most of what you say is just nonsense. Particularly stuff like this:

 

I've been following the numbers for long time. Not going to go too much into it. What was the effect of Steam DRM. Less PC games sold. More consles and console games sold. Steam makes money off every PC game sold.

 

Steam, indisputably, equals more PC games sold. I understand that that may not be true in certain parts of the world, but for western Europe and much of North America (two of the largest geographical groups of videogame consumers), it certainly is.

 

The fact that consoles have done well is due to the complexity of the PC-platform. Steam has helped make the PC relevant again.

[DRM-FREE]

The words you quoted was in reference to like what was it, 2003-2004. But you say I'm silly because you turned my words into 2015.

 

The Witcher 2, I don't think ever came with a GOG code. Steam code yes but I don't think there was a GOG code. But you say they did and I am silly. To assume how they released The Witcher 2 is going to be the same as how they releasing The Witcher 3.

 

Steam helped make PC relevant again lol. Let's see Steam crashed the PC gaming ship. PC retail now = Steam, Origin, Uplay, GOG, Social Club, Blizzard, more to come. There is not one option for offline/non internet users. Well console retail games but they working on changing that. And The Witcher 3.

 

All that it means, Pillars of Eternity I want to buy it but I wished they made a version for me to support.

[DRM-FREE]

BTW Thread can be locked. I got my answer. I'm not here to deal with silly people playing semantics.

[Valsuelm]

BTW Thread can be locked. I got my answer. I'm not here to deal with silly people playing semantics.

 

Then feel free to stop reading the thread. You have no ownership of this thread and the world doesn't revolve around you.

 

That said, yea... it blows all sorts of bad stuff that you can't get a non-steam retail version of the game. With Paradox being in charge (they have a heavy Steam fetish these last couple years) though, that's to be expected.

[Mansen]

To me it's sad that Steam (DRM) has encumbered the retail PC market. You say that it's a big perk for the backers to not have DRM. That means that there is still a big market for DRM-FREE games at retail. There needs to be a way for both to live in the same world.

 

Yeah... about that. DRM Free isn't such a big sales pitch any more. Just look Paradox's own games. Their most popular title, Crusader Kings 2 was initially only planned for Steam. A loud minority convinced them to put money into a DRM-Free version through Gamersgate.

 

Want to take a guess at how many copies that sold? Single Digit - The lower half. It didn't even begin to cover the costs of having someone work on a port for every patch.

 

So what did Paradox do? They went full Steam only - And proceeded to implement Steamworks' Multiplayer API which has made Multiplayer games more stable than ever.