How about introducing critical misses, fumbles or weapons that may break?

[IndiraLightfoot]

Why just crits and happy successes of high damage rolls?

I for one miss the annoying, but sometimes very entertaining fact that non-magical weapons could break in BG. It would enhance the RPG aspect of PoE if this was reintroduced in this "IE spiritual successor".

 

I'd love to see this concept of failure broadened a bit as well. I wish to see critical misses in combat, obviously just as rare as weapons that break, but with weird consequences, interesting "fumbles". Spells that turn into wild magic, even damaging the party or the caster in a pretty bad way. 

 

I'm aware of lots of people hating this, but for an old PnP-er, this would make my day.

Edited September 5, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Sensuki]

BG had a lore reason for weapons breaking (contaminated iron ore).

 

While I enjoy the more random nature of the IE die rolls too, there's no chance that the attack resolution system will be altered.

[PrimeJunta]

Meh, those are IMO a poor fit for a cRPG when you can just reload if something really bad happens. Either the breaking weapons are disposable in which case it makes no difference, or they're not in which case you'll reload.

 

I don't feel the randomness contributed much positive to the combat in the IE games. It was tempting to abuse (Feeblemind Firkraag, reload if it didn't bite), while it rarely did much to enhance the experience when playing at all well. If an encounter went bad, Hail Mary passes hardly ever turned them around, and if you played well you didn't rely on them. The only thing it did when playing at all well was occasionally make your perfectly sound tactics fail, forcing a reload.

 

So yeah, I prefer more deterministic combat.

[IndiraLightfoot]

PJ: Here's the weird bit, though. I almost never reloaded in those cases, I took it as a pretty great part of my RPG combat experience.  I even did that recently, not a plug or anything, but here's proof:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68266-bgee-indira-lightfoot-and-her-bad-band/

 

As for the RNG god of the IE games, that entity's almost sacred to me. I repeat the words of Sensuki: Balance==Banalce.

[Ink Blot]

As an old PnP gamer, I like the idea... for PnP sessions. I don't really like it in games (except maybe, perhaps, possibly the fumble/critical miss mechanic - which are tied together, no? - but even then I'd need some convincing). Breaking weapons I do not like, nor do I like having to maintain/repair them. I've not yet played a game with a weapon-breaking or repair mechanic where I thought the game was better for it or it was a fun aspect.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Ink blot: I actually loathe weapon repairing systems in CRPGs, but for some reason, I find weapons breaking in the midst of combat priceless and challenging (when you didn't ask for it, like a leftfield curveball, mixing metaphors, I think).

[Ink Blot]

Ink blot: I actually loathe weapon repairing systems in CRPGs, but for some reason, I find weapons breaking in the midst of combat priceless and challenging (when you didn't ask for it, like a leftfield curveball, mixing metaphors, I think).

I can definitely see how that could be fun, don't get me wrong. But the issue arises in how to implement it. Does it only happen to mundane weapons? If so, then very early on it's not going to be a factor. Does it happen to magical weapons? If so, then most players are going to be pissed at losing that nice sword and just reload. I admit I'd be a reloader in that case. And I'd be really pissed if that reload meant I had to replay a big chunk of time if I hadn't thought to save before that particular battle.

 

*edit* A fumble system where - on rare occasions - the character drops the weapon and has to spend a turn picking it up. Now that would be something I could accept.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Ink Blot

[IndiraLightfoot]

Ink Blot: No magical weapons will break during my watch!   Only non-magical weapons, and it would fit PoE fine, since those weapons seem to be very important throughout, or at least up until lvl 5-8.

[Ink Blot]

... and it would fit PoE fine, since those weapons seem to be very important throughout, or at least up until lvl 5-8.

A good point. But in this case, my statement about being pissed by losing time would still stand.

[Gromnir]

PJ: Here's the weird bit, though. I almost never reloaded in those cases, I took it as a pretty great part of my RPG combat experience.  I even did that recently, not a plug or anything, but here's proof:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68266-bgee-indira-lightfoot-and-her-bad-band/

 

As for the RNG god of the IE games, that entity's almost sacred to me. I repeat the words of Sensuki: Balance==Banalce.

am not sure what proof you is offering. example: in another thread, you mentioned how much you loved the bg companions and how even though you played mp with a created party, you left open-slots to add bg companions. hell, bgee even has three new companions with full bg2 style quests and you still didn't leave open slots.  am not sure what proof we can get from your anecdotal play o' bgee. heck, three possible companions have been available to you thus far and you has spurned them all. 'course now that we made this point we suspect somewhere along the way you will adopt a companion... that will show Gromnir, eh?

 

*shrug*

 

also, is kinda funny, but weapon degradation actual were planned as an initial feature. is not same as bg breaking (which as noted already were a bg plot point and complete irrelevant once you got magic weapons early in the game) nevertheless, josh thought it were a good credit sink. *shrug* fans didn't like the feature, and more important, it appears that the other PoE team members didn't like it neither. removing weapon degradation were, it seems, a very easy change as it were only affected by a single skill. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Seari]

The Iron Throne is at it again boys, they sure are persistent.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

PJ: Here's the weird bit, though. I almost never reloaded in those cases, I took it as a pretty great part of my RPG combat experience.  I even did that recently, not a plug or anything, but here's proof:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68266-bgee-indira-lightfoot-and-her-bad-band/

 

As for the RNG god of the IE games, that entity's almost sacred to me. I repeat the words of Sensuki: Balance==Banalce.

am not sure what proof you is offering. example: in another thread, you mentioned how much you loved the bg companions and how even though you played mp with a created party, you left open-slots to add bg companions. hell, bgee even has three new companions with full bg2 style quests and you still didn't leave open slots.  am not sure what proof we can get from your anecdotal play o' bgee. heck, three possible companions have been available to you thus far and you has spurned them all. 'course now that we made this point we suspect somewhere along the way you will adopt a companion... that will show Gromnir, eh?

 

*shrug*

 

also, is kinda funny, but weapon degradation actual were planned as an initial feature. is not same as bg breaking (which as noted already were a bg plot point and complete irrelevant once you got magic weapons early in the game) nevertheless, josh thought it were a good credit sink. *shrug* fans didn't like the feature, and more important, it appears that the other PoE team members didn't like it neither. removing weapon degradation were, it seems, a very easy change as it were only affected by a single skill. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Heh! You missed the context by a mile. That playthrough of mine is all about them six characters I rolled up myself (I have played the game dozens of times, I don't need to hear from those companions yet again. It's my prerogative to play BG the way I want to. However, some quest-xp-only people seem hell-bent on policing how it should be played. Also, for this crowd, companions > carefully roleplayed party of six you rolled up yourself. Why is this? I don't know.      ^{they are slaves under the laudatory quotes on the box.})

My proof is that I keep on playing even if my party nearly got wiped out or if a weapon broke. I didn't re-roll, instead I roll with the punches. That's my way to RP combat in that playthrough. Obviously, if they all die I need to reload. So far, it hasn't happened.

Edited September 6, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Gromnir]

 

 

PJ: Here's the weird bit, though. I almost never reloaded in those cases, I took it as a pretty great part of my RPG combat experience.  I even did that recently, not a plug or anything, but here's proof:

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68266-bgee-indira-lightfoot-and-her-bad-band/

 

As for the RNG god of the IE games, that entity's almost sacred to me. I repeat the words of Sensuki: Balance==Banalce.

am not sure what proof you is offering. example: in another thread, you mentioned how much you loved the bg companions and how even though you played mp with a created party, you left open-slots to add bg companions. hell, bgee even has three new companions with full bg2 style quests and you still didn't leave open slots.  am not sure what proof we can get from your anecdotal play o' bgee. heck, three possible companions have been available to you thus far and you has spurned them all. 'course now that we made this point we suspect somewhere along the way you will adopt a companion... that will show Gromnir, eh?

 

*shrug*

 

also, is kinda funny, but weapon degradation actual were planned as an initial feature. is not same as bg breaking (which as noted already were a bg plot point and complete irrelevant once you got magic weapons early in the game) nevertheless, josh thought it were a good credit sink. *shrug* fans didn't like the feature, and more important, it appears that the other PoE team members didn't like it neither. removing weapon degradation were, it seems, a very easy change as it were only affected by a single skill. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

Heh! You missed the context by a mile. That playthrough of mine is all about them six characters I rolled up myself (I have played the game dozens of times, I don't need to hear from those companions yet again. It's my prerogative to play BG the way I want to. However, some quest-xp-only people seem hell-bent on policing how it should be played. Also, for this crowd, companions > carefully roleplayed party of six you rolled up yourself. Why is this? I don't know.      ^{they are slaves under the laudatory quotes on the box.})

My proof is that I keep on playing even if my party nearly got wiped out or if a weapon broke. I didn't re-roll, instead I roll with the punches. That's my way to RP combat in that playthrough. Obviously, if they all die I need to reload. So far, it hasn't happened.

 

we got context. we saw what you wrote before... want us to quote? even when doing mp style you left slots open 'cause you says you liked companion banter. you liked bg companions. clearly you didn't like'em that much.

 

well, as usual, is best to ignore what people say and look instead at what they do. you didn't get wiped, so no issue there. is always easy to have backup weapons 'cause you has played the game previous and already know weapons will break and will be easy for you to get easily found magic versions... because you know where the magic versions is too.

 

*shrug*

 

regardless, just as developers is likely to put more stock in actual feedback by watching folks play, so does Gromnir. we hear what you says, but then we see what you do. is illuminating. thanks.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[IndiraLightfoot]

Gromnir: 1) Are you dense as a brick?

2) Or are you just deliberately misunderstanding everything you read just to annoy people?

I know for a fact that 1) is wrong, since we can discuss things reasonably via PM, so then it's 2).

 

 

I just told you, as clearly as possible, that I've played BG with companions dozens of times. Also, I've never made a secret that I enjoy playing the same game with parties all made up myself. I have posts about that years ago, where Stun and I had to defend ourselves against angry mobs with pitchforks for arguing that the Adventurer's Hall in PoE is a necessity.

 

Please, please, Gromnir, cease and desist with this endless display of derogatory talk and accusatory lies, disguised in some goblin dialect (apropos the need of ignoring what someone says vis-à-vis what they do). I have read hundreds of your posts, and that's the essence of most of them, which is truly sad.

 

Drop the act and grow up! It would be fun and sincerely appreciated seeing more of the real Gromnir (the ones in your PMs), instead of that awful goblin, or else, I'll feel like a ranger with nagging humanoids as a favoured enemy times five!

Edited September 6, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[Gromnir]

another one o' these? *groan* but there is either a disconnect or somesuch. you further pulling up old posts to support your position would be an amusing approach in the present case. 

 

am thinking it were perhaps a mistake to pm you. in the pm we were arguably more condescending and less fair as we assumed (in)action on your part that would lead to you repeated making claims that were unsupported or unsupportable, we suggested a different approach.  in our board posts, we do not make assumptions or hinder you with failures you have not earned-- we take your posts as you write them. that very well could be, ironically, an inability to express yourself. it could also be transparency o' you promoting agenda rather than seeking truth. is it perhaps the case you have such an agenda and refuse to accept that you could be wrong?  am not genuinely concerned. we don't make such assumptions, especially when actions is more significant.

 

personally, we would suggest that your persona is more fraudulent than ours. Gromnir is consistent, but we has, on numerous occasions found common ground with developers. you, on the other hand... well, you is kinda a dog with a bone on some issues. is kinda funny that you remind us a bit o' karzak, the difference being that he didn't have the fake facade.

 

now, am thinking it would benefit us all if you kept actual discussion of issues to the issues rather than having this become a little whimper fest where you or Gromnir discuss where we see flaws in the other's posting style. we noted that PoE, for instance, did have degenerating weapons and that feature were dropped, but you would rather discuss what you see as Gromnir personality faults? perhaps 'cause you cannot make valid arguments on issues. grow up. if you can't make an argument, don't. is no shame in being wrong. turning these into nothing more than a complaint that Gromnir is mean and unfair 'cause he exposed you and were not nice about it diminishes you, not Gromnir. 

 

again, replay o' bgee don't tell us much other than that you ain't really wedded to companions, not even new bgee companions. most randomn "oops" kinda crap sucks in a crpg, but is not the least bit random when such stuff as bg breakable weapons is an example. as others mentioned, bg weapons broke for a limited and explicable plot reason, which as a person replaying the game you is both aware of and is knowing how to minimize the potential handicap. you know the simple ways to circumvent the illusory problem right from the start. horrible example. current play through reveals nothing that you wish it to... but it does reveal some o' what you do not. 

 

now, you gonna grow up and stay on-topic, or no?

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps apologies for not responding timely as we were working on a bit o a deadline this weekend. we will attempt to chastise you with more immediacy in the future. whack puppy who piddled on the floor needs be contemporaneous with the poor behavior for the correction to be creating a genuine learning experience.