Armor and Defense Rating

[crackwise]

I am not sure if there is some explicit info announced by the developers yet about the armor system and the chance to hit, but I will try to share my views on it.

 

In the previous IE games, what the armor did was to change the armor class of the character. Which means that he would be hit less frequently. As you leveled up, your skill to hit would improve, however your ability to defend was only related with the armor you wore. But in reality, a seasoned warrior would easily parry or dodge an inexperienced warrior's attacks. Hence, a more complex system is necessary.

 

Armor as a means to protect against damage

 

What I propose is that the armor should have resistance values for 3 basic types of physical attacks, namely: Slashing, Crushing, Piercing.

For instance a plate mail could have such resistances: 70% slashing, 20% crushing, 40% piercing

 

The proposed system for the chance to defend and the chance to hit

 

As in the D&D system, each character has inherent abilities such as strength, dexterity, etc. But in addition to these they improve their attack and defense skills as they gain experience. This is perhaps rather similar to the Diablo system, but the players could have the chance to allocate some points to attack or defense skills ratings of the characters as they leveled up each time.

Thus, it could be possible to make a more offense oriented fighter or a more defensive fighter with good tanking abilities. The points available for this purpose would differ with individual classes.

 

 

- Defense rating should correspond to the chance of parrying (or keeping the enemy at distance: in the case of polearms, spears. etc.) and every weapon should also have some defense rating in addition to attack rating indicating how good they are at this purpose.

 

Therefore with this logic, the attack and defense rating are defined as such:

 

   The character's attack rating = function of [strength or dexterity bonus*** + attack rating bonus per level (allocated by the player) + weapon attack bonus]

   

   The character's defense rating = function of [strength or dexterity bonus*** + defense rating bonus per level (allocated by the player) + weapon defense bonus]

 

*** The attack or defense bonuses coming from character abilities change according to weapon. For instance short swords and daggers would use the dexterity bonus, however a two handed axe or polearm would use strength bonus. Some weapons such as longsword, mace, axe etc. could use a combination of the two abilities with different percentages.

 

-The chance of dodging should also be present as a mechanic, and is a function of character dexterity, armor properties and class bonuses.  Hence, a leather armor would have a higher dodge percentage, a magical plate armor could allow a higher dodge chance than a normal one and a rogue would have a dodge bonus per level due his training.

 

 

 

So these are my ideas at the moment. Feel free to post your suggestions...

Edited April 17, 2013 by crackwise

[Sensuki]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63207-update-39-non-core-classes-cooldowns-attack-resolution-damage-vs-armor-and-a-tileset/

[Walsingham]

Wasn't there a discussion about this in a recent video blog that got emailed out?

[crackwise]

@Sensuki:  Ok, thanks. I could not follow the updates for some time.

 

It seems that the developers have a slightly similar system in their mind at the moment. However, it is argued that the resistance types of armor against weapon types would result in a rock-paper-scissors situation. I agree, but to balance things out and make more variable fighting styles, it is probably necessary that the weapons have attack rating and defense rating, speed and reach as parameters.

 

Hence, you shouldn't be directly able to say against a heavily armored opponent: "I'll switch to mace and beat him up." Using a spear might help you keep the enemy at bay and although you'll be dealing less damage, the enemy won't be able to get close to you and score a hit. I think this can be implemented by considering weapon reach as a factor.

[Tamerlane]

Wasn't there a discussion about this in a recent video blog that got emailed out?

Update 39?

 

Also, last I heard - and this could totally have changed, but I haven't heard anything of that nature - armour has no affect on evasion. The drawback of heavy armour is decreased action speed.

[Sensuki]

Sawyer said he had another system idea, but he didn't want to talk about it until it had been thoroughly tested.

[Tamerlane]

I thought he said that pre-Update 39? I know they've discarded multiple models...

[AGX-17]

@Sensuki:  Ok, thanks. I could not follow the updates for some time.

 

It seems that the developers have a slightly similar system in their mind at the moment. However, it is argued that the resistance types of armor against weapon types would result in a rock-paper-scissors situation. I agree, but to balance things out and make more variable fighting styles, it is probably necessary that the weapons have attack rating and defense rating, speed and reach as parameters.

 

Hence, you shouldn't be directly able to say against a heavily armored opponent: "I'll switch to mace and beat him up." Using a spear might help you keep the enemy at bay and although you'll be dealing less damage, the enemy won't be able to get close to you and score a hit. I think this can be implemented by considering weapon reach as a factor.

see

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/63207-update-39-non-core-classes-cooldowns-attack-resolution-damage-vs-armor-and-a-tileset/

"Attack Resolution

I've talked about this a bunch on the forums, but not in an update. All attacks in Project Eternity compare the attacker's Accuracy value to one of four defenses: Deflection (direct melee and ranged attacks), Fortitude (body system attacks like poison and disease), Reflexes (area of effect damage attacks), and Willpower (mental attacks).

 

A number between 1 and 100 is generated to determine the attack rules. If the Accuracy and target defense are the same value, these are how the results break down:

01-05 = Miss

06-50 = Graze

51-95 = Hit

96-100 = Critical Hit

A Hit is the standard damage and duration effects, a Graze is 50% minimum damage or duration, a Critical Hit is 150% maximum damage or duration, and a Miss has no effect. In a balanced Attack and defense scenario, the majority of attacks wind up being Hits or Grazes. If the Accuracy and defense values are out of balance, the windows for each result shift accordingly, while always allowing for the possibility of a Graze or a Hit at the extreme ends of the spectrum."

[crackwise]

@AGX-17:  So what is clarified in your post regarding my suggestion of taking into account the weapon reach to prevent rock-paper-scissor situation happening??  

 

Let me put it this way again: A mace would definitely have a higher damage output to heavily armored opponents. However, implementing the weapon reach perhaps as a defense bonus, the real situation of keeping the enemies at distance by two-handed weapons might be considered. Therefore, using a two handed sword or a spear might not be a bad idea against heavy armor, although it is more resistant to their damage type.

 

A two handed hammer on the other hand, would have both the high damage against heavy armor and a strong reach (high defense bonus). However, it strongly loses in the speed factor (perhaps means less number of attacks per round).

 

I know it is very hard to come up with a model which is realistic enough, yet fun to play. But to prevent specific type of weapon choices dominating in specific type of encounters, and to make every weapon useful when combined with party tactics, I think lots of factors should be considered.

[Sensuki]

As far as I know the only advantage to using a reach weapon is that you are able to target enemies from behind another unit (assuming normal collision size). Since this is a real time game though and not based on rounds and probably with no 'initiative' mechanic, technically you will more often than not be able to land the first attack using a reach weapon vs a one handed opponent, because you will be able to commence your attack before the opponent is in range.

[Tamerlane]

It might also affect engagement range for opportunity attacks, and your ability to attack enemies without getting inside their engagement range.

 

But that's just conjecture.

[Sensuki]

I thought he said that pre-Update 39? I know they've discarded multiple models...

 

nah it was post-update 49 and not in an update, reason being it may not even be implemented.

[TrashMan]

Good post(s) OP.

I like.

[rjshae]

As far as I know the only advantage to using a reach weapon is that you are able to target enemies from behind another unit (assuming normal collision size). Since this is a real time game though and not based on rounds and probably with no 'initiative' mechanic, technically you will more often than not be able to land the first attack using a reach weapon vs a one handed opponent, because you will be able to commence your attack before the opponent is in range.

 

I suspect that reach weapons will probably have the slowest attack speed. Hence you may be able to get in the first blow, but once the opponent closes you could be at a distinct disadvantage (much like the Roman gladius vs. the Greek sarissa).