Raiders vs Power Armor

[TrashMan]

^ True that, Trashman. Animal example of the OP's human example? Would a group of wolves really charge at a summoned Flame Elemental (who's literally comprised of burning) and try to bite it?

 

Many RPGs have, to an extent, been reduced to some semblence of "Oh, a thing. Time for the two of us to fight, thing!" No matter what that thing is. Provoking it usually only requires walking near it. A single wolf trying to find its way back to its pack? There are 73 people in your party, trompsing through the woods? Get within 15 feet of that wolf, and it'll attack you. Otherwise, it'll just stand there/wander aimlessly. That wolf doesn't care HOW many people are coming toward it. It's an insane wolf with no survival instincts.

 

Maybe that's what fantasy evil does? It drains the world of survival instincts? That would be a pretty ingenious way to take over things, actually. *chin stroke*...

 

 

Hm...insanity wolf? Or courage wolf?

 

 

[Bonecrusher]

I think I prefer courage wolf

 

 

take Elminster as an example:

 

Edited March 19, 2013 by Bonecrusher

[Lephys]

I remember LOTRO had an interesting system. There were three types of creatures (I am not sure if the official names were exactly like this) 1- Passive, the creatures which not attack you if you don't attack them, 2- Aggressive, these creatures will attack you on sight, 3- Territorial, these will not attack you on sight, but if you stay near them too much and provoke them, they will attack.

That's super dandy and all, increasing the enemy reaction possibilities by 50%, to 3. But, it should really probably be a bit deeper than that. How 'bout a "the closer you get to me, the faster I run" mode, for example? Who decided that there's always SOME amount of distance at which people and things automatically go berzerk and start attacking with wild abandon?

 

Not to mention, it's always SO unnatural. You're just trotting along, guessing at the "aggro" distance.

 

"Oh, it seems at 15 feet, where they can clearly see me, these wolves were fine. But at 14.3 feet, THEY ARE HUNTING ME FOREVER!"

 

Also, while we're on the animal topic... what's with wolves just "running" up to you in these games, then standing there and biting at you in a nice, rhythmic fashion?!

 

Can I get some actual, constantly-moving-so-I'm-hard-to-hit-then-flank-strike-tackle-you-and-try-to-rip-out-your-jugular-with-my-mouth wolf behavior, please? Sure, it's pretty easy to kill a wolf, but it's also pretty difficult to prevent a wolf from harming you. Full plate? That'll probly do it, but the thing could still leap upon your face/chest. EVEN IF it dies in the process, how do you stop it from taking you to the ground? It's not gonna stand there, for one, and it's certainly not going to pit its teeth and claws against your sword in an epic struggle while a latin choir floods the scene with drama.

 

 

And, @Trashman:

 

LOLCANO!!! ^_^

Edited March 20, 2013 by Lephys

[TrashMan]

@Bonecrusher:

 

Hell, if I was Elminster with all those epic levels and spells, I'd be taking strolls in hell myself.

[Cultist]

@Lephys

Like Red Dead Redemption leopard hit and run attacks? Anyway in RPG with top view it wont work - this we have to deal with.

Yet some animals at first will try to warn the trespassers, and only when threats fail they will attack. Even snakes try to warn potential enemies. There's an issue in fantasy with "altered" animals - like blight animals in Dragon Age or possessed, rabid, affected by magic etc.

For humanoids there's may be chracacters who will drink some berzerk-potions and then attack you.

[Jarmo]

Bandits mistaking high level party for easy prey when partys visible equipment isn't plate and chain and greatswords?

Works for me. Could even be used as a plot element, you need to "dress down" to draw out bandits and kill/catch them.

 

Animals?

Don't make me fight normal animals, at least not suicidal crazy animals.

But if I have to fight them, let's assume there's several kinds of them.

 

Crazed, scared types. Bear protecting it's cubs or such, stumble in, you're likely to get attacked,

unless you have some calming presence or wildland lore skill that'll enable you to back out.

 

Pack hunters. Wolves or lions or such. They'd normally know not to attack armed people, but if it's 15 of them and 4 of you,

they might take the chance, especially if they're hungry enough. Even then, if you effortlessly splatter one, the rest will run.

 

Ambush hunters. Leopards or such. Probably wont attack if you see them. Or if there's a party of you.

But if you're alone or even separated from the party, they'd sneak close and rush.

If the cat can't knock you down and gets a stab instead, it's going to run away, most likely.

 

Anyhoo. If there's a lot of fighting animals, there really needs to be knockdown/grab/suppress things they do.

Doesn't much work the normal way, of standing next to a wolf exchanging blows.

[Lephys]

@Lephys

Like Red Dead Redemption leopard hit and run attacks? Anyway in RPG with top view it wont work - this we have to deal with.

What won't work? Quality animal AI? I fail to see how the top-down view affects the limitations on creature AI (if that's what you're talking about).

[TrashMan]

@Lephys

Like Red Dead Redemption leopard hit and run attacks? Anyway in RPG with top view it wont work - this we have to deal with.

 

 

It might.

If people have actual vision cones and not 360° views.

 

Also assuming skills like stealth and camuflage. (I'd expect hiding in a bush would give a HUGE camuflage/stealth bonus)

 

Basicly, stalkers can come from behind..especially if your party is on the move

[Lephys]

It might.

If people have actual vision cones and not 360° views.

 

Also assuming skills like stealth and camuflage. (I'd expect hiding in a bush would give a HUGE camuflage/stealth bonus)

 

Basicly, stalkers can come from behind..especially if your party is on the move

That's actually an excellent point/idea. Maybe you can see terrain and such in a 360 (insert degree symbol here) view, but you can only see enemies (or certain, crafty/stealthy enemies) when they're within a character's forward-facing cone.

 

I was actually simply talking about the manner in which wolves and such would behave whilst attacking. Even if you can see them the whole time, they'd move very swiftly in around their target, and go for a take-down (as you are probably double the size of them). They wouldn't just wield their claws and fangs at you like a bandit wields his dagger or cudgel. They would not engage you in direct, 1-on-1 combat. Any dodging they did would be simply moving away from you or coming back at you (or your failure to hit them as they circle because of their speed).

 

But, like I said, still an awesome point/notion.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Lephys

[Shadenuat]

Someone was well aware about the animal problem when making Neverwinter Nights 1, so he made scripts for animal behavior, simple but effective: for herbivores they'd run away or be territorial, for non-herbivores they'd hunt or can attack you if you come too close, and domestic animals searched for their masters if attacked. It's really nothing special, just a few strings of code. I am not a coder but managed to make animals in my mod to run around searching food and double tap to their lair if attacked. Even wolves in BG1 are not hostile by default. It's just that when designer starts to place enemies, he thinks "oh shi--, player needs some low level xp, how do I do it... yeah, let's place 20 wolves and check them as hostile faction, that will teach 'em!".

Edited March 22, 2013 by Shadenuat

[Shadenuat]

As for humans, local Fallout-esque reputation with a few modifiers from intimidation/strength and character's overall reputation could do the trick. Age of Decadence also had an interesting twist - if your kill counter is way too high, it becomes a new intimidation option.

Edited March 22, 2013 by Shadenuat

[Cultist]

Level scaling can solve the problem easily. Once some kind of "power level"(sic!) reaches over 9000 then certain NPCs change status from agressive to passive, representing muggers take caution and stay away from your party. At the same time, more powerful criminals, who before concidered you not worth their time, take notice at your progress and can move to rob you.