Jump to content

Welcome to Obsidian Forum Community
Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!
Photo

Narrative Second Wind

k.o encounter story plot jail player

  • Please log in to reply
29 replies to this topic

#21
Kage Tempest

Kage Tempest

    Stormblade of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 41 posts
  • Location:U.S.A.
Sounds like a great Idea. But like others that were concerned has voice, something like this shouldn't be a very common occurrence we should also think of the logistics of implementing a system like this. R&D is really costly >.< and I doubt obsidian has the funds to put towards something like this. Maybe in an expansion?

#22
teknoman2

teknoman2

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1368 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer
of course you cant have it for everything... only where it makes sense. for example you are stoped by highwaymen and you try to fight them off but fail. they may not kill you but your party will wake up some hours later where you fell but with all you had gone. then you will have to get new items from scratch, maybe having to buy back your stuff from merchants in town where the thieves have sold it and so on

#23
Osvir

Osvir

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3799 posts
  • Location:Stockholm, SE
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
The transition between Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 could be seen as a major Narrative Second Wind.

Take an area in Baldur's Gate as an example, you fight some Ogres, then you get taken to some designated point on that map. For guards, there could be a jail in a town where you get taken too as well, so not so much "Create/Draw more areas". Getting sent to jail in Baldur's Gate could also be seen as a Narrative Second Wind, but as it is part of the plot it is also a major Narrative Second Wind, what I am curious about is if it is possible to make minor instances.

Maybe only 3-4 encounters that leads to some sort of ~"Second Wind".

#24
Gumbercules

Gumbercules

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 234 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
You probably would have been better off just describing your idea instead of comparing it to the "Second Wind" mechanic, since some people still seem to be taking it literally rather than metaphorically.

Dragon Age: Origins already used this idea once, so it's not like this is some radical change. The main difference would be to have it happen more than once, and against enemies who haven't been made uncharacteristically difficult to defeat.

#25
motorizer

motorizer

    (4) Theurgist

  • Members
  • 260 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer

I doubt obsidian has the funds to put towards something like this. Maybe in an expansion?


they have 4 times the fund they asked for...
I think its a great idea, for some situations

#26
Osvir

Osvir

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3799 posts
  • Location:Stockholm, SE
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

You probably would have been better off just describing your idea instead of comparing it to the "Second Wind" mechanic, since some people still seem to be taking it literally rather than metaphorically.


Then I think some people need to read the entire post before criticizing and/or commenting on it. I describe the idea in the first post under "B".

#27
anubite

anubite

    (5) Thaumaturgist

  • Members
  • 488 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
Mechanics that lessen the impact of death I dislike. GW2 and Borderlands 2 are built around this 'second wind' mechanic. It might be okay for a very powerful special ability, but I'd rather see Obsidian implement abilities we need to use actively in combat, not passively rely on what amounts to a free resurrection.

#28
teknoman2

teknoman2

    (9) Sorcerer

  • Members
  • 1368 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Deadfire Backer
  • Fig Backer

Mechanics that lessen the impact of death I dislike. GW2 and Borderlands 2 are built around this 'second wind' mechanic. It might be okay for a very powerful special ability, but I'd rather see Obsidian implement abilities we need to use actively in combat, not passively rely on what amounts to a free resurrection.

i think you are taking point A of op and disregarding point B that is his actual proposal
and it would not be a free resurection since there would be a price to pay for making it out alive, namely your gear and money that if you have gone down will be taken from you even if you do not die. this could also be used in reverse in order to win fights while keeping some of the enemies alive for questioning
that trick was also used in a way in the gothic series, where when you fought other humans, you did not kill them outright and neither did they, unless there was a reason

Edited by teknoman2, 13 December 2012 - 01:20 AM.


#29
Osvir

Osvir

    Arch-Mage

  • Members
  • 3799 posts
  • Location:Stockholm, SE
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Kickstarter Backer
  • Lords of the Eastern Reach Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!

Mechanics that lessen the impact of death I dislike. GW2 and Borderlands 2 are built around this 'second wind' mechanic. It might be okay for a very powerful special ability, but I'd rather see Obsidian implement abilities we need to use actively in combat, not passively rely on what amounts to a free resurrection.


teknoman2 already addresses it. In Borderlands and GW2 it is pretty much a "free" resurrection... but you still have to take down someone to get up again. In a sense it is a sort of "mini-game". That is not what I am advocating.

But at the same time, I am advocating for a "free" resurrection, in a philosophical sense. I like the thoughts teknoman2 brings to light, namely "What do you lose?". Time. In one playthrough you run over the bandits like nothing, on another they run you over.

Likewise, what do you win? There's no real reward, except a "second chance" and more "narration". Most important: Material for your own Player/Main Character Plot. You get to get back into the game on your Ironman mode and you don't need to restart the game from the very start. It could be your life savior, you think you lost the battle but you are surprised as you wake up in a jail cell, still alive. A Narrated text describing the descent your character has made from being "The Hero", now a slave under the command of a greedy old Lord who has abused you for weeks. Now's your chance to escape.

In Baldur's Gate, you would have been dead when you met those Bandits and you would have had to create a new character (if permadeath). And that would have been that. I'm advocating for a "second chance" because I believe everyone deserves it. In Ironman mode perhaps even all of your companions dies, permadeath, and only your main character survived. Wouldn't that be quite a sudden twist to the story of your character? Something that necessarily didn't have to happen.... but it did. That is also part of "What do you lose?" and even "What did you win?".

Equipment, Gold, Reputation...?

How important is the Player's Journey through the game, and how important is the Main Character's Story for you? I think pretty important. A Narrative Second Wind could be one way for the Player to feel like he is "interacting" with the story and being a part of the story. It gives more material for your own Custom Home Made Main Character Story. "Who is your character?" type of thing~

#30
Hertzila

Hertzila

    Infiltrator of the Obsidian Order

  • Members
  • 82 posts
  • Pillars of Eternity Silver Backer
  • Deadfire Silver Backer
  • Fig Backer
  • Black Isle Bastard!
I can kind of see this happening in some situations but I can't see much good come from this unless it limited to a few questlines only. For the average bandit, you have no real value and by the time end-game rolls, they should be too scared of you to even consider attacking (and if they do, scared of enough to just kill you straight). Wolves care not for such material wealth, and ogres would much rather kill you before throwing you into that pot, I'd presume.
All in all, it's a nice twist when pulled off successfully but I can't see this being pulled off well even if it's only the occasional quest fight; it has to be rare and very limited to quest-specific moments. Even if they would make sense story-wise, gameplay-wise even fairly conservative use of this would be a poor idea IMO.





Also tagged with one or more of these keywords: k.o, encounter, story, plot, jail, player

0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users