For RP/customization sake, please allow us to keep the same "armor/weapon" look if we want for new euqipment.

[Umberlin]

From a role-playing perspective I fully understand the people that want to be able to control the look of their character. I enjoy it when customization systems allow for this, as long as it's not completely out of control. There do need to be limitations, such as if a class (just an example) has an armor restriction (just as an example, yes I know) then I'd prefer a customization system keep that armor limitation in place while still allowing you to customize within that.

 

That would be perfectly reasonable I think.

 

What about something like this? Just looking at this knight at an example.

What if there are just item slots for things like tunics that go over your armor that have no statistical value but let you somewhat customize the look of your characters no matter what armor is on underneath.

 

It's not exactly the same thing, but what you're talking about reminds me of Warhammer Online's dye system coupled with its trophies, both of which were visual ways to customize your armor. The dye system was notable for the fact that it would only work on designated parts of the armor, much like your note of the character in that picture having different tunics. In essence a color swap with, possibly, a different texture on the tunic.

 

Still since we're talking infinity engine style game here . . . I'm not even sure we'll be able to get close enough to see much detail. If anything we'll probably just be able to swap the color of things to an extent, which you saw in Infinity Engine games, actually.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Umberlin

[nikolokolus]

So would you object to the developers having a crafting system so you could use player skills to create and modify equipment?

if they want use player skills to implement something that lets us either create our own armor that is as good as the armor we can find while customizing how it looks, that would be awesome. I would be perfectly happy with that solution. Like I said in the first post, the whole idea is completely unnecessary. I just think it would be kind of neat.

 

It really blows my mind that menu options ruin the immersion of these games so easily though. Does the floating hand controlling your character's actions bother you? The colored circles when you select something? Or the fact that your Paladin NPC friend will get mad at you when you act like a jerk in conversation, but the second you tell them to bash an innkeepers face in he will do it without hesitation? It's a game. There is a game interface that lets you do all sorts of silly things that are much more ridiculous than changing how you look.

 

My reaction might be irrational, but really I think it's kind of like the straw the breaks the camel's back. RPGs are typically about the suspension of disbelief, but usually they are at least somewhat rooted to some kind of real-world touchstone, or have some kind of internal logic. Being able to automagically alter your armor with a little inventory button is the kind of meta-gaming that breaks the fourth wall for me.

 

I'm perfectly fine with a non-meta gaming mechanic (like crafting skills/feats) however.

[ogrezilla]

From a role-playing perspective I fully understand the people that want to be able to control the look of their character. I enjoy it when customization systems allow for this, as long as it's not completely out of control. There do need to be limitations, such as if a class (just an example) has an armor restriction (just as an example, yes I know) then I'd prefer a customization system keep that armor limitation in place while still allowing you to customize within that.

 

That would be perfectly reasonable I think.

 

What about something like this? Just looking at this knight at an example.

What if there are just item slots for things like tunics that go over your armor that have no statistical value but let you somewhat customize the look of your characters no matter what armor is on underneath.

 

It's not exactly the same thing, but what you're talking about reminds me of Warhammer Online's dye system coupled with its trophies, but of which were visual ways to customize your armor. The dye system was notable for the fact that it would only work on designated parts of the armor, much like your note of the character in that picture having different tunics. In essence a color swap with, possibly, a different texture on the tunic.

 

Still since we're talking infinity engine style game here . . . I'm not even sure we'll be able to get close enough to see much detail. If anything we'll probably just be able to swap the color of things to an extent, which you saw in Infinity Engine games, actually.

 

Right, it doesn't need to be super detailed. But it is 14 years later. I don't think its ridiculous to expect a little bit more detail. I'm not expecting every human male in the game to be the same guy with different colored hair.

[Umberlin]

From a role-playing perspective I fully understand the people that want to be able to control the look of their character. I enjoy it when customization systems allow for this, as long as it's not completely out of control. There do need to be limitations, such as if a class (just an example) has an armor restriction (just as an example, yes I know) then I'd prefer a customization system keep that armor limitation in place while still allowing you to customize within that.

 

That would be perfectly reasonable I think.

 

What about something like this? Just looking at this knight at an example.

What if there are just item slots for things like tunics that go over your armor that have no statistical value but let you somewhat customize the look of your characters no matter what armor is on underneath.

 

It's not exactly the same thing, but what you're talking about reminds me of Warhammer Online's dye system coupled with its trophies, but of which were visual ways to customize your armor. The dye system was notable for the fact that it would only work on designated parts of the armor, much like your note of the character in that picture having different tunics. In essence a color swap with, possibly, a different texture on the tunic.

 

Still since we're talking infinity engine style game here . . . I'm not even sure we'll be able to get close enough to see much detail. If anything we'll probably just be able to swap the color of things to an extent, which you saw in Infinity Engine games, actually.

 

Right, it doesn't need to be super detailed. But it is 14 years later. I don't think its ridiculous to expect a little bit more detail. I'm not expecting every human male in the game to be the same guy with different colored hair.

 

I'm curious to see the eventual early in game shots to give us a basic idea of what to expect. We'll see eventually. Kind of hard to wait, the entire project is quite exciting.

[ogrezilla]

So would you object to the developers having a crafting system so you could use player skills to create and modify equipment?

if they want use player skills to implement something that lets us either create our own armor that is as good as the armor we can find while customizing how it looks, that would be awesome. I would be perfectly happy with that solution. Like I said in the first post, the whole idea is completely unnecessary. I just think it would be kind of neat.

 

It really blows my mind that menu options ruin the immersion of these games so easily though. Does the floating hand controlling your character's actions bother you? The colored circles when you select something? Or the fact that your Paladin NPC friend will get mad at you when you act like a jerk in conversation, but the second you tell them to bash an innkeepers face in he will do it without hesitation? It's a game. There is a game interface that lets you do all sorts of silly things that are much more ridiculous than changing how you look.

 

My reaction might be irrational, but really I think it's kind of like the straw the breaks the camel's back. RPGs are typically about the suspension of disbelief, but usually they are at least somewhat rooted to some kind of real-world touchstone, or have some kind of internal logic. Being able to automagically alter your armor with a little inventory button is the kind of meta-gaming that breaks the fourth wall for me.

 

I'm perfectly fine with a non-meta gaming mechanic (like crafting skills/feats) however.

I'd be perfectly happy if crafting is the best we get. In fact, I'd be fine with nothing of the sort included. Its just something that I would like. The old games already allowed you to change the colors of parts of your clothes at any moment. I know its not as blatant, but its also not completely different.

[Tuco Benedicto]

Still since we're talking infinity engine style game here . . . I'm not even sure we'll be able to get close enough to see much detail. If anything we'll probably just be able to swap the color of things to an extent, which you saw in Infinity Engine games, actually.

Yeah, about that... i must admit that if the camera is going to be far enough, I would actually prefer highly stylized characters (let's just say "silhouettes") over models that try too hard to be detailed, failing in the attempt.

 

I'm not saying exactly like this...

 

 

...as I would expect more details on armors etc, but that would be pretty much the idea.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Tuco Benedicto

[ogrezilla]

From a role-playing perspective I fully understand the people that want to be able to control the look of their character. I enjoy it when customization systems allow for this, as long as it's not completely out of control. There do need to be limitations, such as if a class (just an example) has an armor restriction (just as an example, yes I know) then I'd prefer a customization system keep that armor limitation in place while still allowing you to customize within that.

 

That would be perfectly reasonable I think.

 

What about something like this? Just looking at this knight at an example.

What if there are just item slots for things like tunics that go over your armor that have no statistical value but let you somewhat customize the look of your characters no matter what armor is on underneath.

 

It's not exactly the same thing, but what you're talking about reminds me of Warhammer Online's dye system coupled with its trophies, but of which were visual ways to customize your armor. The dye system was notable for the fact that it would only work on designated parts of the armor, much like your note of the character in that picture having different tunics. In essence a color swap with, possibly, a different texture on the tunic.

 

Still since we're talking infinity engine style game here . . . I'm not even sure we'll be able to get close enough to see much detail. If anything we'll probably just be able to swap the color of things to an extent, which you saw in Infinity Engine games, actually.

 

Right, it doesn't need to be super detailed. But it is 14 years later. I don't think its ridiculous to expect a little bit more detail. I'm not expecting every human male in the game to be the same guy with different colored hair.

 

I'm curious to see the eventual early in game shots to give us a basic idea of what to expect. We'll see eventually. Kind of hard to wait, the entire project is quite exciting.

 

absolutely. The first in game shot will answer a lot of questions. Like, would this even be noticeable enough to be worth including. If the game looks exactly like the games from 2000, I would say no. I'm just assuming that when they say its a game paying homage to games from that time, they still plan on making a game that looks and feels like its being released in 2014. I could be wrong. I would still play the game and probably love it. But my ideal Project Eternity is a classic RPG, not an old RPG.

[ogrezilla]

I'm going with the assumption that something like this

is the bare minimum we should be expecting as far as graphical detail. Slap a tunic on one of those armored fellows and I would definitely be able to notice.

Edited September 27, 2012 by ogrezilla

[Tuco Benedicto]

I'm going with the assumption that something like this

is the bare minimum we should be expecting as far as graphical detail.

That would be my assumption as well (and I'd like to point that ToEE characters are in fact silhouettes, as I suggested in the previous post).

 

Ironically I would be more concerned about the game's "prettiness" if they attempt to scale the detail up, as stylized characters are easy to make pleasant to the eye, while over-detailed one need some actual talent in 3D modeling to shine.

[ogrezilla]

Ironically I would be more concerned about the game's "prettiness" if they attempt to scale the detail up, as stylized characters are easy to make pleasant to the eye, while over-detailed one need some actual talent in 3D modeling to shine.

 

I guess I'm also talking under the assumption that actual talented people are making this game. I want the game to look as good as possible whatever artistic style that means.

Edited September 27, 2012 by ogrezilla

[Minttunator]

Ironically I would be more concerned about the game's "prettiness" if they attempt to scale the detail up, as stylized characters are easy to make pleasant to the eye, while over-detailed one need some actual talent in 3D modeling to shine.

 

I have to admit whenever I hear "stylized" nowadays I think of WoW, Torchlight, LoL, etc. Shudder. Although I do remember one of the devs saying they aren't going for a cartoony aesthetic, so I guess we're sort of safe there. As to 3D modeling, I agree - in addition, it just doesn't age well, just look at something like BG1 in comparison to, say FF7.

[Tuco Benedicto]

I have to admit whenever I hear "stylized" nowadays I think of WoW, Torchlight, LoL, etc. Shudder. Although I do remember one of the devs saying they aren't going for a cartoony aesthetic, so I guess we're sort of safe there. As to 3D modeling, I agree - in addition, it just doesn't age well, just look at something like BG1 in comparison to, say FF7.

Well, that's more "cartoony", as you said yourself.

As I already explained, when I say "stylized" I'm talking more about stuff like Another World, ToEE or Darklands (which is also very old and "pixelated", but that's not the point now so ignore that, I'm talking about the overall style).

 

 

EDIT: and yes, as Ogrezilla said, I'm hoping for this game to look as pretty as possible. The point is what someone finds pretty.

Personally I care more about the overall style and (possibly) very nice animations than about the level of detail on 3D models.

Edited September 27, 2012 by Tuco Benedicto

[Veca]

The sheer ignorance of some of the people in this thread is impressive.

 

If they implemented it like Rift did, as a wardrobe, (which is optional to use), those people who arent a fan of transferring looks would in no way be affected of it.

On the other hand, us that deeply have an interest in looking good (to what our eyes sees as good, people have different tastes), we can use the wardrobe, or transmutation stones or whatever it ends up beeing, and we will have a richer experience, WITHOUT doing anything to those other guys playexperience.

 

And on the other hand, it is a SINGLE player game, not mmo.

So what I do in my game will have NO effect on some other dudes game.

 

Spread the attention, there are alot of people who like to "play with dolls", and get the best/prettiest/awesomest look.

Just look at how many people use transmogrification in World of Warcraft.

[TrashMan]

Not really a fan of this idea. Prefer it if equipment has their set looks.

 

How does this hurt you though? Does it really seem like a "great" thing to be forced to either be underpowered stat wise while wearing a set of armor you really really like, or having to ditch it for armor that you might think looks "fruity?"

 

I see no downside to it, no one is forcing you to do it, it'd be a choice. If you like going through new equipment and changing your like you wouldn't have to use this.

 

Choice between looks or functionality is a very real one, so why should you be exempet from making it?

Not that I think the developers will make ugly armors, but the idea sucks.

 

 

why would it bother you what others do in a single player game? Don't like the game mechanic? Don't use it...simple as that.

 

It bothers me when people want to cheat the mechanics because of their PETTY obsessions.

Don't like the game? Don't play it.

Don't like the armor? Don't wear it.

[ogrezilla]

EDIT: and yes, as Ogrezilla said, I'm hoping for this game to look as pretty as possible. The point is what someone finds pretty.

Personally I care more about the overall style and (possibly) very nice animations than about the level of detail on 3D models.

 

I don't really need them to be particularly detailed. But I would like enough detail that if two people in my party are wearing chain mail and a similar helmet, I would like to be able to tell them apart. I know I could make them wear different colors in the older games. And I did. But I'd like something a bit more than that. If this game looks exactly like ToEE I will be happy. If I am able to add a tunic or something on top of what we saw 11 years ago, I would be that much happier.

[ogrezilla]

Not really a fan of this idea. Prefer it if equipment has their set looks.

 

How does this hurt you though? Does it really seem like a "great" thing to be forced to either be underpowered stat wise while wearing a set of armor you really really like, or having to ditch it for armor that you might think looks "fruity?"

 

I see no downside to it, no one is forcing you to do it, it'd be a choice. If you like going through new equipment and changing your like you wouldn't have to use this.

 

Choice between looks or functionality is a very real one, so why should you be exempet from making it?

Not that I think the developers will make ugly armors, but the idea sucks.

 

 

why would it bother you what others do in a single player game? Don't like the game mechanic? Don't use it...simple as that.

 

It bothers me when people want to cheat the mechanics because of their PETTY obsessions.

Don't like the game? Don't play it.

Don't like the armor? Don't wear it.

 

It isn't breaking anything. Its graphics. My game would play exactly like yours even if my guys all looked like they were wearing pretty pink dresses. You'll never even know I did it.

Edited September 27, 2012 by ogrezilla

[TrashMan]

 

 

How does it rob any item of style???

 

It is the PLAYERS choice, you are not forced to use it or not. Items can still have unique looks, and if you pick up a new item and simply prefer your older items looks but the new item has far better stats, you can choose to keep the look you have and still get the stats from the new item.

 

N.O.

 

The very idea offens me on an intellectual level.

 

I will fight agaisnt this idea untill death and beyond.

[ogrezilla]

How does it rob any item of style???

 

It is the PLAYERS choice, you are not forced to use it or not. Items can still have unique looks, and if you pick up a new item and simply prefer your older items looks but the new item has far better stats, you can choose to keep the look you have and still get the stats from the new item.

 

N.O.

 

The very idea offens me on an intellectual level.

 

I will fight agaisnt this idea untill death and beyond.

 

I honestly am having a hard time believing you are doing anything but trolling. Nobody is this condescending right? Your opinion is not better than ours.

Edited September 27, 2012 by ogrezilla

[TrashMan]

It isn't breaking anything. Its graphics. My game would play exactly like yours even if my guys all looked like they were wearing pretty pink dresses. You'll never even know I did it.

 

Do I look like I care?

No.

 

The very existence of that option bothers me.

[TrashMan]

 

I honestly am having a hard time believing you are doing anything but trolling. Nobody is this condescending right?

 

No trolling. I'm being 100% serious.

Demands like these are my berserk bottun. ... I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate them.

 

 

Your opinion is not better than ours.

 

Keep telling yourself that.

[ogrezilla]

It isn't breaking anything. Its graphics. My game would play exactly like yours even if my guys all looked like they were wearing pretty pink dresses. You'll never even know I did it.

 

Do I look like I care?

No.

 

The very existence of that option bothers me.

 

that literally does not make sense to me. I can't wrap my head around it. To use your words, I think you have developed a very petty obsession.

[Shardbearer]

I'm not in favor of this option for a single player rpg. However, I'm also not one to be bothered/offended by features I can ignore.

[ogrezilla]

I honestly am having a hard time believing you are doing anything but trolling. Nobody is this condescending right?

 

No trolling. I'm being 100% serious.

Demands like these are my berserk bottun. ... I haaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaate them.

 

 

Your opinion is not better than ours.

 

Keep telling yourself that.

thanks for confirming. you are either a troll or someone I just have no interest in communicating with. farewell.

[Tuco Benedicto]

[ogrezilla]

really got out of hand fast.

 

my apologies.

Edited September 27, 2012 by ogrezilla