Widsom/intelligence/getting the most from the story

[SkyandSun]

Hi all,

 

This kind of ties in with update 7 but I wanted to post it seperately.

 

One thing that really frustrtates me with PS:T is the fact that, to get the most dialogue choice and most depth from the story, you have to put all your points in charisma, wisdom and intelligence. Effectively making you a mage. If you develop your character in another way, you miss out on dialogue and 'story experience'.

 

Even if Obsidian seperate combat and non-combat abilities - effectively making it so you can develop a character based on strength and still have the same resources to develop the equivalent of wisdom, for instance - you still will miss out on, say, trap-disarming if you want 'story' and dialogue - if they simpy seperate 'non combat' from 'combat' skills.

 

Who doesn't want the option of experiencing the story to its fullest?

 

Personally, I feel that there are a number of approaches for tacking this. First - perhaps dialogue skills should be completely seperate from everything else. So everyone will get a lot of dialogue options - it's just how you choose to develop them - whether a persuasive type, or someone who relies on initimidation, for instance. The resources and XP for 'dialogue' are roped off from everything else. So you have 'combat skills', 'non combat skills' and 'dialogue skills'.

 

Or, I would actually be open to the idea of dialogue skills being completely absent. So the way we develop in dialogue is down to player choice in dialogue rather than options appearing dependent on the level of your Speech skill.

 

Finally, another option might be to treat speech differently from other skills again - maybe taking a Bethsoft approach. So, there ARE checks for persuasion, intimidation or whatever - but these are not things you pump points into, but rather that are tracked organically based on player choice in dialogue, and so by the end of the game you find dialogue options available to you based on how you have behaved in dialogue in the past.

 

At the moment I favour the last option. This combines an acknowledgment that dialogue choices are affected by player choice with a way that doesn't limit your character development in other areas.

 

I hope this makes sense. I just feel that having an option in the character screen that basically is a stat for 'story' is stupid, because most people are automatically going to want that and it just means limiting their options and development elsewhere.

[Monte Carlo]

I want to see characters as dumb as a bag of hammers have as interesting dialogue choices as those who min / max their communication skills and stats. Indeed, PS:T was awful for this, and it wasn't really clear when you made your first character that TNO didn't really need anything other than soft skills.

[SkyandSun]

I think 'dumb dialogue' is a bit of an exception to all this. It's almost like an easter-egg, in my view, at least.

 

The point still stands that I feel that everyone should have equal opportunity to explore the story to its fullest, regardless of whether they are into trap-disarming or skull-bashing. And I feel a way to do this while also keeping player choice in how their character is in dialogue, is to have it develop organically - so the themes that emerge from which dialogue options you pick begin to limit and expand what options you are presented with in the future. (i.e. a Bethsoft approach - the more you use X skill, the more it develops). And I think this should be limited to intimidation vs persuasion type choices, rather than 'intelligent vs dumb' choices - as I think it's a lot harder to rate intelligence in a CRPG. A person playing someone 'intelligent' may choose a short three line response - which should be fine, as just because youre' intelligent, doesn't mean you always speak for hours on end.

 

Alternatively, just give everyone all the dialogue choices and let them choose what they want to say from the fullest amount of options. The only limitations are based on the PC's story to date - i.e. they can't comment on things they haven't done or seen - and the PC's other skills - they can't comment on sneaking if they don't have high sneak skill.

Edited September 23, 2012 by SkyandSun

[Gurkog]

Different options based on skills, actions and reputations. Lots of variety that can not be accessed with any one specific set of skills. Everyone misses out on a bit and things unfold differently because no 2 characters are the same. That is what I want.