Society, Religion, and the rule of law

[fan]

I like games depicting deeply flawed societies fleshed out in a way so no obvious solutions to all the injustices come to mind.

• The rule of law
  

- Regular egalitarian societies are boring, but introducing a prominent social contract theory into the mix would spice things up.

- Separate courts of law for aristocracy and commoners are getting old. In "The Book of the New Sun" by Gene Wolfe, I liked the way society as a whole was 99% segregated. Middle age society lived in the ruins of space age society (of the same race). The few remainders of the space age society ruled all, while never interacting with the lower classes or even explaining or giving name to their technologies and motives.

• Language and education
  

Incredible studies exist on how language serves as a framework for our thinking. If a ruling class were to somehow keep the "high language" for themselves, technological and socio-economical advance of the lower classes would stagnate. It wouldn't make peasants dumb, just unable to visualize and develop certain thoughts. While unlikely in the real world, the Project Eternity setting offers magic. If well done, the player character could undergo a memorable transformation from not understanding many parts of his/her world to discovering it fresh)

 

By the way, I'd much rather have the main quest be internal (PST), instead of external (BG). Wide reaching changes for society should be incidental to choices resulting from personal development.

• Religion
  

In fantasy games there is usually a good reason to be religious, because (very human) deities interact with the world. I'd rather not have that. Leave supernatural occurrences inexplicable. Let there be theories, cults and religions, but no proof. Let there be skeptics and believers, and let religion be abused as a political tool.

I'd love to see unique characters, such as the Weaver from China Mi

[Kilroy_Was_Here]

Given the number of areas on the world map we've seen, it's entirely possible to have regions/kingdoms/empires/city-states with all kinds of political/moral/religious/legal systems. Variety is the spice of life.

[Eiphel]

Everything you are describing here is very exciting to me. And on a sidenote, I'm now going to check out Perdido Street Station.

[SirMonkeyMonk]

Completely agree with the religion think, I like there to be theories and different explainations possible. Altough there can be prove of some supernatural forces, doesn't have to mean people understand it or that it is a reason to worship. But what we've heard about the souls so far, I think that's the way they are heading.

 

At the same time, I really like stories, tales, adventures of gods how single events changed the balance of the world

[Wombat]

I like the world which have various interpretations about these spiritual factors, too. Through social status, ethnics, religions, and even languages, various recognitions of the world make it three dimentional and rich. However, at least, as for religions, the main plot of the PE can be related with a power secret which are concealed to the majority. This reminds me of Mask of the Betrayer.

 

In Mask of the Betrayer, the gods have a big secret, which was related with the axis of the plot. While I think it's well done for the Forgotten Realms setting, knowing the "truth" didn't make much of interesting choices. It was between destroying the system (In fact, this was not allowed and you need to simply leave the gods) or exploit the power of a god (so-called evil ending). It sounds epic in a way that you can be "powerful" in evil ending, but, personally, I'd like to see the world with more open to interpretations or more personalized story like Planescape: Torment.

 

If PE has something common with MotB, since PE is going to have many factions, it might simply end up with what you to do with the secret of the power - give it to your favorite faction, or exploit it by yourself, or...(Speculation TM) In any case, the existence of the truth can nullify the other theories. In that case, the players is going to hear various religious/philosophical theories, only to end up with a single truth. If so, it is going to rely on the actual presentation of NPCs from various backgrounds and how the players can sympathize/feel against them.

[hideo kuze]

• Religion
  

In fantasy games there is usually a good reason to be religious, because (very human) deities interact with the world. I'd rather not have that. Leave supernatural occurrences inexplicable. Let there be theories, cults and religions, but no proof. Let there be skeptics and believers, and let religion be abused as a political tool.

I'd love to see unique characters, such as the Weaver from China Mi�ville's "Perdido Street station".

 

The Weaver, a multi-dimensional being in the form of a giant spider, who speaks in a never-ending torrent of free-verse poetry.

 

This creature, when encountered, might grant a wish, disembowel and neatly arrange your body parts, talk nonsense, take an ear as a souvenir, or do any combination of the former.

Now that's a cool deity.

 

/not sure if want

furthermore, /not sure if understood

 

 

First you say you don't want deities interacting with the world and then you give the example of the Weaver.

 

I also don't understand what you mean regarding leaving supernatural occurrences unexplained.

Magic?

 

No proof? No proof that deities exist?

 

 

I have the opposite opinion about this matter, I'll just copy paste what I said here

I'd like to see gods interacting with the world, and more importantly allow for interaction with the player.

 

In ToEE a very memorable encounter was the one with Lareth.

When he's almost dead he tries to dissuade you, (I don't recall the details), but he then curses you and says "Lloth, help me", and 3 giant spiders are summoned.

 

I'd like for both NPCs and the PC to be able to worship and submit to a god, give offerings and perform tasks for him, and in return he would help you out when you asked for help. Note that there is lot of room here to balance and adapt this to the god's personality (he may as well ignore or betray you).

For example, suppose that you make a pact with a god which allows you to summon 2 of his "pets", but in return he will eat out part of your soul (ie: you lose a point on one of your attributes).

The gamers of the new school will probably say "that is stupid, I'll just reload". But for me, and I bet for the ones playing as ironman, this can be a real life saver.

 

Also, it would be fun to betray a god in some way or the other

 

It seems we are looking for different type of implications.

I'm looking for a more gameplayish thing, while you seem to be asking philosophical but (to my eyes) more void of gameplay.

 

 

As for the philosophic side of things, I'd rather have characters that worship gods, characters that believe in the divine as something impossible to attain, characters that see gods as Übermensch but that can still be killed, characters that refuse to worship or obey the gods, and anything in between.

 

 

"If you have the arrogance of a god and can kill like a god, who's to say you are not a god?"

— Winski Perorate

[TrashMan]

HMmmm...I really don't like too much methapysical of philospohical mumbo-jumbo.

 

While I like D&D's take on it in some ways, I prefer the DA approach - it really looks like there is a god, but no one has actual concrete proof.

 

 

And I really wouldn't like a character like Revan/TNO...spending the entire game learning who you where...no thanks. I'm far more interested in shaping my character now rather than to listen about a past I had no influence or hand in. Simply put, the characters past that happened before the game started doesn't itnerest me at all.