PC control scheme made me lose interest in the game

[C2B]

first of all i hate it when ppl compare DS3 to DS1 and DS2. these games are so vastly different that there is very very little reasons to compare them. DS1 and DS2 are irrelevant.

 

Uhm, no. It has a different focus but so did DSII already from DSI (And DSII was equally hated for it by DSI players). I think comparisons in certain areas ARE justified and you shouldn't hate on people because they are doing so. Regarding controls though I have to agree it is pretty different.

 

Edit: Also, click for movement and double click for attack is used pretty sucessfully. Whats wrong with it?

Edited May 3, 2011 by C2B

[topeira]

To be honest, I kind of agree with topeira on this one. Point and click sounds appropriate for a Diablo like that keeps the gameplay similar enough to Diablo.. but this seems like it will feel a lot more like a mix between a beat'em up, an action game and a diablo-like so the point & click scheme might not be optimal.

Early feedback on it we've got so far (granted, they've surely polished it up since that build) is that the game is more difficult with m&kb.. which I assume wasn't intended.

 

the game was built with a controller in mind so the gameplay fits fast reactions from the player. P&C is NOT for fast reactions. i think it was shoehorned into DS3 PC to allow a m\kb. i hope im wrong and i hope there will be enough constumizability to the keyboard. as i gave an example - spiral knights is a game that does this PERFECTLY - allowing both P&C and WASD movement. doesnt take a genius to do this. only will and the understanding that it's needed.

 

@C2B, i dont hate ppl comparing things that shouldnt be compared. i hate IT when ppl compare. i hate the comparison. i dont hate ppl in general. ppl are nice most of the time

there are a lot of common things in DS2 and DS3 but the way combat looks is not one of them. combat is fast and movement based in DS3 while it ISNT like that in P&C diablo style games where is "walk. stop. attack attack attack attack. drink potion. attack attack attack. potion. attack. win". in DS3 there seems to be a big emphasys on how fast u react to enemies attack which is more like "move. attack. attack. enemy swings your way so u dodge. attack. dodge again. attack. disingage close enemies and move to other enemies. attack. block. attack. etc". this type of combat is very action oriented. cant see how dodging quickly and keeping aim at enemies will work in a P&C method.

if movement was WASD than u can keep the aim at enemies while u dodge and move with the keys. no problem here. the advantage of m\kb can be to its fullest with WASD+mouse to aim. this way u can aim and move seperately and aiming can be really accurate with long range attacks. the player loses nearly nothing over the controller scheme (he will be limited to 8 movement directions but that's never a real problem in action games) and gains extra accuracy with projectiles and efficiency with multi tasking.

Edited May 3, 2011 by topeira

[C2B]

To be honest, I kind of agree with topeira on this one. Point and click sounds appropriate for a Diablo like that keeps the gameplay similar enough to Diablo.. but this seems like it will feel a lot more like a mix between a beat'em up, an action game and a diablo-like so the point & click scheme might not be optimal.

Early feedback on it we've got so far (granted, they've surely polished it up since that build) is that the game is more difficult with m&kb.. which I assume wasn't intended.

 

the game was built with a controller in mind so the gameplay fits fast reactions from the player. P&C is NOT for fast reactions. i think it was shoehorned into DS3 PC to allow a m\kb. i hope im wrong and i hope there will be enough constumizability to the keyboard. as i gave an example - spiral knights is a game that does this PERFECTLY - allowing both P&C and WASD movement. doesnt take a genius to do this. only will and the understanding that it's needed.

 

@C2B, i dont hate ppl comparing things that shouldnt be compared. i hate IT when ppl compare. i hate the comparison. i dont hate ppl in general. ppl are nice most of the time

there are a lot of common things in DS2 and DS3 but the way combat looks is not one of them. combat is fast and movement based in DS3 while it ISNT like that in P&C diablo style games where is "walk. stop. attack attack attack attack. drink potion. attack attack attack. potion. attack. win". in DS3 there seems to be a big emphasys on how fast u react to enemies attack which is more like "move. attack. attack. enemy swings your way so u dodge. attack. dodge again. attack. disingage close enemies and move to other enemies. attack. block. attack. etc". this type of combat is very action oriented. cant see how dodging quickly and keeping aim at enemies will work in a P&C method.

if movement was WASD than u can keep the aim at enemies while u dodge and move with the keys. no problem here. the advantage of m\kb can be to its fullest with WASD+mouse to aim. this way u can aim and move seperately and aiming can be really accurate with long range attacks. the player loses nearly nothing over the controller scheme (he will be limited to 8 movement directions but that's never a real problem in action games) and gains extra accuracy with projectiles and efficiency with multi tasking.

 

 

Oh, ok then^^.

 

It will be interesting to see how it will work in the end.

[Lord Elvewyn]

To be honest, I kind of agree with topeira on this one. Point and click sounds appropriate for a Diablo like that keeps the gameplay similar enough to Diablo.. but this seems like it will feel a lot more like a mix between a beat'em up, an action game and a diablo-like so the point & click scheme might not be optimal.

Early feedback on it we've got so far (granted, they've surely polished it up since that build) is that the game is more difficult with m&kb.. which I assume wasn't intended.

 

the game was built with a controller in mind so the gameplay fits fast reactions from the player. P&C is NOT for fast reactions. i think it was shoehorned into DS3 PC to allow a m\kb. i hope im wrong and i hope there will be enough constumizability to the keyboard. as i gave an example - spiral knights is a game that does this PERFECTLY - allowing both P&C and WASD movement. doesnt take a genius to do this. only will and the understanding that it's needed.

 

@C2B, i dont hate ppl comparing things that shouldnt be compared. i hate IT when ppl compare. i hate the comparison. i dont hate ppl in general. ppl are nice most of the time

there are a lot of common things in DS2 and DS3 but the way combat looks is not one of them. combat is fast and movement based in DS3 while it ISNT like that in P&C diablo style games where is "walk. stop. attack attack attack attack. drink potion. attack attack attack. potion. attack. win". in DS3 there seems to be a big emphasys on how fast u react to enemies attack which is more like "move. attack. attack. enemy swings your way so u dodge. attack. dodge again. attack. disingage close enemies and move to other enemies. attack. block. attack. etc". this type of combat is very action oriented. cant see how dodging quickly and keeping aim at enemies will work in a P&C method.

if movement was WASD than u can keep the aim at enemies while u dodge and move with the keys. no problem here. the advantage of m\kb can be to its fullest with WASD+mouse to aim. this way u can aim and move seperately and aiming can be really accurate with long range attacks. the player loses nearly nothing over the controller scheme (he will be limited to 8 movement directions but that's never a real problem in action games) and gains extra accuracy with projectiles and efficiency with multi tasking.

 

I can appreciate that you hate the comparison (not the people making it) The problem is this game is called DS3. If the game had been called anything else, Dungeon Siege: XXX the comparison wouldn't be made, or at least not as readily. It'd be like comparing C&C1-3 (strategy) with C&C Renegade (FPS?). To me the game feels more like Streets of Rage or Golden Axe (really old!) than anything else I've encountered. It's set in the DS universe but doesn't play or feel like DS. And that's the problem.

[C2B]

I can appreciate that you hate the comparison (not the people making it) The problem is this game is called DS3. If the game had been called anything else, Dungeon Siege: XXX the comparison wouldn't be made, or at least not as readily. It'd be like comparing C&C1-3 (strategy) with C&C Renegade (FPS?). To me the game feels more like Streets of Rage or Golden Axe (really old!) than anything else I've encountered. It's set in the DS universe but doesn't play or feel like DS. And that's the problem.

 

 

How,....

 

How in the world is this game anything like a 2D Sidescroller? Its still by any means an Action-RPG and not much less complex than DS I & II (And even DSI & II aren't really seen as "complex" by the RPG commuity). This is NOTHING like the difference between a strategy titel and a first person shooter.

 

.....

Edited May 5, 2011 by C2B

[topeira]

i understand what he's saying - that there is a rather large difference between DS1\2 and DS3. he went too far with the comparison but i see his point.

same goes with The witcher 1 and the witcher 2. they have a lot of similarities yet TW2 has such a vastly different combat system that it must have a lot of control scheme changes. it's no longer a point and click affair when it comes to combat and now its combat is a lot like Fable arcania and even AC or batman:AA.

and frankly the combat in DS3 feel more like Fable to me than DS1 on consoles as well. not on the PC though - the "attack is directional and not on specific enemy" and "block makes u stand in place but if u move than u roll" and "attack multiple enemies around u while moving from one to another". these conventions are a lot more "fable" and less DS.

 

for me the change of pace with DS3 is good since i hate P&C games, as it was well clear form this thread but i think obsidian is trying to keep things from the old school DS games. trying hard enough to make ME less interested and should make lord elvewyn more interested.

[C2B]

i understand what he's saying - that there is a rather large difference between DS1\2 and DS3. he went too far with the comparison but i see his point.

same goes with The witcher 1 and the witcher 2. they have a lot of similarities yet TW2 has such a vastly different combat system that it must have a lot of control scheme changes. it's no longer a point and click affair when it comes to combat and now its combat is a lot like Fable arcania and even AC or batman:AA.

and frankly the combat in DS3 feel more like Fable to me than DS1 on consoles as well. not on the PC though - the "attack is directional and not on specific enemy" and "block makes u stand in place but if u move than u roll" and "attack multiple enemies around u while moving from one to another". these conventions are a lot more "fable" and less DS.

 

for me the change of pace with DS3 is good since i hate P&C games, as it was well clear form this thread but i think obsidian is trying to keep things from the old school DS games. trying hard enough to make ME less interested and should make lord elvewyn more interested.

 

Well, I get it.

 

Though, I don't really think Fable is the best comparison here. Also Baman and ACs system is counter dependant so I don't really see the similarities. (Does DSIII even have a counter system?)

[Lord Elvewyn]

i understand what he's saying - that there is a rather large difference between DS1\2 and DS3. he went too far with the comparison but i see his point.

same goes with The witcher 1 and the witcher 2. they have a lot of similarities yet TW2 has such a vastly different combat system that it must have a lot of control scheme changes. it's no longer a point and click affair when it comes to combat and now its combat is a lot like Fable arcania and even AC or batman:AA.

and frankly the combat in DS3 feel more like Fable to me than DS1 on consoles as well. not on the PC though - the "attack is directional and not on specific enemy" and "block makes u stand in place but if u move than u roll" and "attack multiple enemies around u while moving from one to another". these conventions are a lot more "fable" and less DS.

 

for me the change of pace with DS3 is good since i hate P&C games, as it was well clear form this thread but i think obsidian is trying to keep things from the old school DS games. trying hard enough to make ME less interested and should make lord elvewyn more interested.

 

Exaggeration's useful sometimes Yes I did think the P&C a plus but too little too late. Too much action not enough DS RPG

[WorstUsernameEver]

Exaggeration's useful sometimes Yes I did think the P&C a plus but too little too late. Too much action not enough DS RPG

 

I'm not going to contest that, if they took out the parts of the Dungeon Siege experience that were fundamental for your enjoyment, then it's sad for you. Going to note that I don't consider the first two Dungeon Siege games RPGs, though, but I understand the definition of RPG is somewhat loose and everyone kinda has their own.

[C2B]

Exaggeration's useful sometimes Yes I did think the P&C a plus but too little too late. Too much action not enough DS RPG

 

I'm not going to contest that, if they took out the parts of the Dungeon Siege experience that were fundamental for your enjoyment, then it's sad for you. Going to note that I don't consider the first two Dungeon Siege games RPGs, though, but I understand the definition of RPG is somewhat loose and everyone kinda has their own.

 

WUE did you ever play the second DS? It actually added many rpg elements DSI didn't have or changed them to it. Its still not really comparable to classics but actually not that bad in it.

Edited May 5, 2011 by C2B

[WorstUsernameEver]

WUE did you ever play the second DS? It actually added many rpg elements DSI didn't have or changed them to it. Its still not really comparable to classics but actually not that bad in it.

 

No, I didn't. Did they add branching quests and stuff like that? Then it may interest me. I'm just not really interested in hack'n'slashes, which is why I was initially going to avoid DSIII too (plus I didn't have a lot of faith in Obsidian nailing the gameplay.. and in a way they didn't, since they changed it a lot shifting it to another style).

[C2B]

WUE did you ever play the second DS? It actually added many rpg elements DSI didn't have or changed them to it. Its still not really comparable to classics but actually not that bad in it.

 

No, I didn't. Did they add branching quests and stuff like that? Then it may interest me. I'm just not really interested in hack'n'slashes, which is why I was initially going to avoid DSIII too (plus I didn't have a lot of faith in Obsidian nailing the gameplay.. and in a way they didn't, since they changed it a lot shifting it to another style).

 

Theres "some" C&C, yes. And the Narrative is widely improved.

 

Didn't you preorder on Steam?

Edited May 5, 2011 by C2B

[WorstUsernameEver]

Didn't you preorder on Steam?

 

No, I didn't. I'm saving money and if necessary I want to be able to cut this pre-order too (this and The Witcher 2 are the only games I'm going to get for a good while, and this one I'm mostly just getting it in the hope of some awesome Obsidian Forums co-oping goodness), not to mention the game is cheaper to pre-order than on Steam pretty much.. everywhere.

[Lord Elvewyn]

My absolutely worst fears have come true and i lost nearly all interest in the game.

apparently , while the console control scheme is an action oriental control scheme, the PC mouse+kyb control scheme is the archaic point+click one.

 

SNIPPED

 

this basically means that the game will probably feel like an action game on the consoles while it will feel like a strategy game on the PC . the p&C control scheme of diablo is archaic. it's old. there is a reason why the witcher has moved from the old fashioned P&C to a modern control scheme. it's more tactile. it's faster to handle. it allows better control. the fact the i MOVE as well as ATTACK with the same device (mouse) means that i cant do them separately. this means i cant move in one direction and shoot\cast in another. this means that i can't aim my melee towards an enemy while im moving in a different direction either.

if i am attacking an enemy on my right and i want to roll to the left i have to stop attacking, aim where i want to roll and then press the roll button or something. having the need to aim my roll by stopping the attack is annoying and unnecessary. having the need to hold a button just to attack is ALSO unnecessary (the shift button).

why do i have to press 2 buttons in order to perform the simple action that the controller allow with one button?!?

 

sadly i am not going to buy a game with a control scheme from 20 years ago. i hated it with passion in the 90's and i still do. every game controls really well with a more action oriented control scheme and this one can as well.

 

 

SNIPPED

 

sadly im no longer going to get this game on day one as i wished i would since im dont think im going to enjoy controlling my character like this. if there is a demo than i will give it a try. if there isn't than im going to pass, unless i hear news about the option to a more action oriented control scheme.

 

i know a lot of old school DS fans are happy with the P&C scheme but providing with movement options is not going to grief anyone.

 

Okay I'm resurrecting an old thread here.

 

Topeira, have you considered Skyrim - Elder Scrolls V? I'm not sure how I stumbled over it, though I'm enjoying Oblivion just at present. It's an FPS style RPG (FPRPG?) so does the whole WASD thing. From what I've read Skyrim should have DS style health\mana, complex magic and weapons (split left and right hand usage), selectable DS2 style perks etc. Oh yeah, sounds like active blocking too if you want the whole grr me smash melee route. Might have to wait a while though - it's not scheduled 'til 11/11/11

[Lessi]

Just curious here.. I have an xbox pad for my PC. I'm sure alot of people do.

 

Even if theres P&C too I think Obsidian will need their asses whupped if they don't have a 'pad' mode for PC gamers.

 

Also, from Demo.. is it true?

Edited June 2, 2011 by Lessi

[C2B]

Just curious here.. I have an xbox pad for my PC. I'm sure alot of people do.

 

Even if theres P&C too I think Obsidian will need their asses whupped if they don't have a 'pad' mode for PC gamers.

 

Also, from Demo.. is it true?

 

Theres Pad Support and you're even allowed to do local co-op on the PC.

 

So, theres really no reason to get the console version other than preference.

[C2B]

Just curious here.. I have an xbox pad for my PC. I'm sure alot of people do.

 

Even if theres P&C too I think Obsidian will need their asses whupped if they don't have a 'pad' mode for PC gamers.

 

Also, from Demo.. is it true?

 

Theres Pad Support and you're even allowed to do local co-op on the PC.

 

So, theres really no reason to get the console version other than preference.