We can now programme cells with entirely artificial DNA

[Orogun01]

With respect, I disagree.

 

Such long lifespans, in my mind, might well lead to a sense of ennui that borders on the insane, a sense of moral detachment whereby those living 'the lifespans of the poor' are effectively an untermensch.

 

They might well think: why suffer sharing this potential eternal eden with vermin?

Such behavior comes from an already disturbed mind, the elite hurt the lower castes by their disregard for the consequences that do not affect them. But to deliberately hurt someone seems like something out of their way. If they indeed they are so filled with ennui and insanity it would had manifested on our present.

But seriously, how do you connect longer lifespan to insanity? After a certain age most people mellow out, they don't become psychotic at worst they are senile.

[Monte Carlo]

Insanity is perhaps the wrong word and I expressed myself poorly.

 

I mean a mindset difficult for us to imagine, say over five hundred years of life where for most of it you are relatively healthy and fit. Your perspective on life is going to shift immensely, isn't it? Your potential for advanced personal development is only matched by your potential for advanced personal depravity.

 

Add to this the resentment of the short-lived majority. Discrimination and, ultimately, political violence seems inevitable. A sense of entitlement, ennui and self-defence might well lead the four-hundred year old billionaire with a close circle of powerful political friends to think....

[Orogun01]

Insanity is perhaps the wrong word and I expressed myself poorly.

 

I mean a mindset difficult for us to imagine, say over five hundred years of life where for most of it you are relatively healthy and fit. Your perspective on life is going to shift immensely, isn't it? Your potential for advanced personal development is only matched by your potential for advanced personal depravity.

 

Add to this the resentment of the short-lived majority. Discrimination and, ultimately, political violence seems inevitable. A sense of entitlement, ennui and self-defence might well lead the four-hundred year old billionaire with a close circle of powerful political friends to think....

Not really, what you describe is the result of "true" immortality and not augmented lifespan. The cause for such behavior I would describe as being a overlong sense of stagnation since is mortality that allows for transcendence.

 

Although seeing that we are discussing it I'm not sure that it would be possible to become immortal merely by removing the telemeters on DNA, just unable to age. This seem like something that could be the result of future military research, before it reaches the public. As such it would be part of many military application research developed from this technology and would see combat on such future. IMO, the power struggle caused by such advancement would global to societal, within such a chaotic society the scenario you describe could be true. Yet it all hinges on 1) this technology being the holy grail of genetic manipulation 2) a lack of ethical research and 3) external and internal factors that would make an individual pursue that course of action.

[Humodour]

Removing telomeres (whatever that means - telomeres are important to protect against the imperfect replication of DNA polymerases, you can't just remove them... maybe replenish them?) may prevent ageing but it won't prevent cancer caused by DNA mutations built up over a lifetime.

[Orogun01]

Removing telomeres (whatever that means - telomeres are important to protect against the imperfect replication of DNA polymerases, you can't just remove them... maybe replenish them?) may prevent ageing but it won't prevent cancer caused by DNA mutations built up over a lifetime.

You right, but since we are talking about immortality here simply elongating the sequence won't do. We are speculating here about the ultimate consequences of this technology, in case that the whole sci fi dystopia wasn't a big clue

I don't necessarily think that genetic modification will cause mutations but we have no research whatsoever on adverse effects.

[Humodour]

Removing telomeres (whatever that means - telomeres are important to protect against the imperfect replication of DNA polymerases, you can't just remove them... maybe replenish them?) may prevent ageing but it won't prevent cancer caused by DNA mutations built up over a lifetime.

You right, but since we are talking about immortality here simply elongating the sequence won't do. We are speculating here about the ultimate consequences of this technology, in case that the whole sci fi dystopia wasn't a big clue

I don't necessarily think that genetic modification will cause mutations but we have no research whatsoever on adverse effects.

 

Genetic modification may not cause mutations, but ultraviolet light and oxygen sure will!

 

To truly have immortality you need either: a cure for cancer, or true AI (or to be specific, the ability to download a human brain and optionally and ideally transfer it into a new living host e.g. clone)

 

Otherwise no amount of senescence prevention will prevent death.

[Orogun01]

Removing telomeres (whatever that means - telomeres are important to protect against the imperfect replication of DNA polymerases, you can't just remove them... maybe replenish them?) may prevent ageing but it won't prevent cancer caused by DNA mutations built up over a lifetime.

You right, but since we are talking about immortality here simply elongating the sequence won't do. We are speculating here about the ultimate consequences of this technology, in case that the whole sci fi dystopia wasn't a big clue

I don't necessarily think that genetic modification will cause mutations but we have no research whatsoever on adverse effects.

 

Genetic modification may not cause mutations, but ultraviolet light and oxygen sure will!

 

To truly have immortality you need either: a cure for cancer, or true AI (or to be specific, the ability to download a human brain and optionally and ideally transfer it into a new living host e.g. clone)

 

Otherwise no amount of senescence prevention will prevent death.

Actually downloading AI depends on how much of the actual consciousness is preserved. Plus the host may not take to the invasion, but these options are complete fantasy and off the point. Let's just stick to the genetic aspect.

Edited May 24, 2010 by Orogun01

[Walsingham]

I for one want my DNA rewritten because apparently taking on a 'beer belly' is down to genes, not beer.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3175488.stm

[Orogun01]

I for one want my DNA rewritten because apparently taking on a 'beer belly' is down to genes, not beer.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3175488.stm

Whilst there is a relation between genes and metabolism, IIRC there is no direct relation between genes and beer belly. Causes are most likely a combination of a slowdown of metabolism after age 40 and alcohol causing more consumption of food.

[Walsingham]

I for one want my DNA rewritten because apparently taking on a 'beer belly' is down to genes, not beer.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3175488.stm

Whilst there is a relation between genes and metabolism, IIRC there is no direct relation between genes and beer belly. Causes are most likely a combination of a slowdown of metabolism after age 40 and alcohol causing more consumption of food.

 

That's not what the article says, if I understand it correctly.

[Orogun01]

I for one want my DNA rewritten because apparently taking on a 'beer belly' is down to genes, not beer.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3175488.stm

Whilst there is a relation between genes and metabolism, IIRC there is no direct relation between genes and beer belly. Causes are most likely a combination of a slowdown of metabolism after age 40 and alcohol causing more consumption of food.

 

That's not what the article says, if I understand it correctly.

You do, but the article fails. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer_gut#Slang_terms

[Walsingham]

Fair enough.

 

Two quotes from the game Alpha Centauri:

 

* The genetic code does not, and cannot, specify the nature and position of every capillary in the body or every neuron in the brain. What it can do is describe the underlying fractal pattern which creates them.

o Academician Prokhor Zakharov, "Nonlinear Genetics"

 

* Remember, genes are NOT blueprints. This means you can't, for example, insert "the genes for an elephant's trunk" into a giraffe and get a giraffe with a trunk. There are no genes for trunks. What you CAN do with genes is chemistry, since DNA codes for chemicals. For instance, we can in theory splice the native plants' talent for nitrogen fixation into a terran plant.

o Academician Prokhor Zakharov, "Nonlinear Genetics"

[Orogun01]

Our understanding of the genome is still quite limited as i have said before. We don't know exactly which gene codes for every trait, but there is still a fair amount of understanding genetic disorders and hereditary causes. While they may not be exactly blueprints that description isn't far from the truth, with enough knowledge of genetics and the means one could create a human from scratch.

[Humodour]

I for one want my DNA rewritten because apparently taking on a 'beer belly' is down to genes, not beer.

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3175488.stm

Whilst there is a relation between genes and metabolism, IIRC there is no direct relation between genes and beer belly. Causes are most likely a combination of a slowdown of metabolism after age 40 and alcohol causing more consumption of food.

 

Fat levels tend to be as much about epigenetics in childhood as they are genetics. In fact probably even more-so.

[Walsingham]

Epigenetics?

[Orogun01]

Epigenetics?

IIRC, the biological study of hereditary changes.

[Humodour]

Epigenetics?

 

The scientific study of post-birth changes in the body as influenced by the environment. Usually centered around fluctuations in gene regulation.

 

The best example of epigenetic changes in eukaryotic biology is the process of cellular differentiation. During morphogenesis, totipotent stem cells become the various pluripotent cell lines of the embryo which in turn become fully differentiated cells. In other words, a single fertilized egg cell