People on this board pick some of the most unusual things to have a strong opinion on.

Nothing unusual in this case, no.

What?

 

Is there a strong contingent of Deus Ex haters somewhere that I missed?

What?

 

Is there a strong contingent of Deus Ex haters somewhere that I missed?

There! Behind you!

*Assault shotgun burst*

 

Then I put on my robe and wizard hat.

Deus Ex was a shooter.

Shun the non-believer, shun!

Wah wha wha!

 

Really, Deus Ex was at it's core a FPS, with some stats and an inventory on top of it.

Deus Ex was a shooter.

Shun the non-believer, shun!

Wah wha wha!

 

Really, Deus Ex was at it's core a FPS, with some stats and an inventory on top of it.

 

Almost like Fallout 3?

 

*hides from flames*

Deus Ex was a shooter.

Shun the non-believer, shun!

Wah wha wha!

 

Really, Deus Ex was at it's core a FPS, with some stats and an inventory on top of it.

 

Almost like Fallout 3?

 

*hides from flames*

Well, almost. Fallout 3 had an open world, while Deus Ex was strictly mission based. But F3 had at least the typical exploration and quest stuff going on, which Deus Ex didn't. Deus Ex only had pirmary and secondary mission goals. No fedex stuff there.

I really liked the multiple-approach thing they did. There were almost always at least three different ways to get to the objective(usually guns ablaze/stealthy vent/gross sewer).

I really liked the multiple-approach thing they did. There were almost always at least three different ways to get to the objective(usually guns ablaze/stealthy vent/gross sewer).

Yeah but those are typical characteristics of a (good) shooter. RPG means you got the C&C stuff while talking to someone. DX didn't have that.

Wah wha wha!

 

Really, Deus Ex was at it's core a FPS, with some stats and an inventory on top of it.

And a story that puts many an RPGs to shame, some C&C (JC, we'd appreciate if you wouldn't peek around in the women's toilet), sneaking and shooting were both viable choices. The levels were areas, with friendly or neutral NPCs, computers, billiard boards, newspapers, whatever you could mess around with, free to tackle the areas as you liked, and so on and on.

 

In contrast, 2009 FPS Halo ODST has...shooting and some sneaking.

 

DX is a shooter indeed. As is Alpha Protocol by that logic.

 

RPG means you got the C&C stuff while talking to someone.

I must have missed those RPGs.

Edited September 23, 200916 yr by Oner

I really liked the multiple-approach thing they did. There were almost always at least three different ways to get to the objective(usually guns ablaze/stealthy vent/gross sewer).

Yeah but those are typical characteristics of a (good) shooter. RPG means you got the C&C stuff while talking to someone. DX didn't have that.

 

How many recent shooters do that? The only ones I can think of are the "open world" shooters like Crysis and Far Cry 2 and they come with their own set of problems.

Crysis doesn't offer multiple solutions, it's just a bit more open ended in the level design, but you still have a linear path for the main goal.

DX gives you here and there some choices at least.

 

But it ain't an RPG. Because there are no speech skills, no intimidating or charming options and stuff. And no quests.

There's a ton of "RPGs" which have no speech skills or even choices, starting with the dreaded JRPGs and going all the way to the action RPG Diablo-clones.

 

There are quests and even side-quests in DX.

 

Just because you define RPGs by a very narrow and weird criteria, doesn't mean that everyone else does.

 

For example compare STALKER with Deus Ex. STALKER clearly falls on the Shooter with RPG elements side of the fence, while Deus Ex cleverly sits in the middle. You can imagine System Shock 2 being a bit more on the RPG side for a full fence experience.

Edited September 23, 200916 yr by Purkake

There's a ton of "RPGs" which have no speech skills or even choices, starting with the dreaded JRPGs and going all the way to the action RPG Diablo-clones.

 

There are quests and even side-quests in DX.

 

Just because you define RPGs by a very narrow and weird criteria, doesn't mean that everyone else does.

Diablo-clones aren't Action RPGs, they have their own category and are called Hack & Slasher.

 

Action RPG is something like Mass Effect, AP, Jade Empire etc.

 

Well, that's my definition. And by my definition DX is still a FPS with more options. Heck, Warren Spector actually said that himself.

It's great that you have your own categories.

 

Stop using them like the absolute truth when everyone else disagrees and maybe slip a nice "IMO" in there somewhere

Edited September 23, 200916 yr by Purkake

It's great that you have your own categories.

 

Stop using them like the absolute truth when everyone else disagrees and maybe slip a nice "IMO" in there somewhere

Why don't you just give up and agree with me? come on, say it:

 

Deus Ex is a FPS with more options.

 

Say it!

Never!

 

It's a FPRPG like System Shock 2.

It's a FPRPG like System Shock 2.

It's a FPRPG like System Shock 2.

Heck, Warren Spector actually said that himself.

Nope, he didn't:

Deus Ex incorporates elements from four video game genres: role-playing, first-person shooter, adventure, and "immersive simulation", the last of which being a game where "nothing reminds you that you're just playing a game".

He also made up a nifty acronym, but I don't remember it.

In a DX2 interview he once said that DX is a shooter with more options. That came out of his mouth. I'm not searching the link for you though.

 

But whatever. Let's not fight over this chicken shat.

 

Let's say, DX is a FPS/RPG hybrid a'la System Shock2, okey dokey?

Sure.

Crysis doesn't offer multiple solutions, it's just a bit more open ended in the level design, but you still have a linear path for the main goal.

DX gives you here and there some choices at least.

 

But it ain't an RPG. Because there are no speech skills, no intimidating or charming options and stuff. And no quests.

 

Oh come off it. Did the Gold Box SSI games have charming skills? Did Wizardry? Did early Bards Tale titles offer all that? Many of the titles I just cited didn't have side quests either.

 

Deus Ex was a hybrid which means it was part RPG. The simple fact that character skill took precedence over player skill at low weapon levels is enough to separate it from the conventional shooter pack.

Sure.

I fear we lost his soul forever Brother Purkake. The High Father will not be pleased.

Sure.

I fear we lost his soul forever Brother Purkake. The High Father will not be pleased.

 

Fear not, for the tropes live on.

 

PS. "Sure" means "Die!" in Estonian...

 

Oh come off it. Did the Gold Box SSI games have charming skills? Did Wizardry? Did early Bards Tale titles offer all that? Many of the titles I just cited didn't have side quests either.

 

Does Alpha Protocol have speech skills? No, that's what I thought. Don't think it makes it any less RPG though.

I'm happy to see yet another "what is a RPG and what is not" discussion on the Internet. They're always very informative, and I always learn much from them. Thank you Internet.