Any Visual Basic guru's here?

[Nightshape]

not a hole... i'm doing work in a very non-mainstream embedded framework which makes it more of an exception. how many people in the world write code for radar applicatons? i'd be willing to bet it's in the 5-figure range. the guy that wrote all of my peripheral control software is a C++/java programmer. made it tough for me when i had to make changes, hehe.

 

taks

 

One of the guys I work with comes from that kind of background... He's a damn fine programmer, fast too.

[Humodour]

It's easy to tell a C++ programmer they learn C. "Why?" "Because you need to know more low-level dynamics."

 

But what do you tell a competent, happy programmer who has only ever really known C? "You need to learn C++ so you can code better." "My code works fine. I'm happy with C. I don't care about OO. Go away."

[Nightshape]

So C programmers are ignorant?

[Diamond]

In the other news, C dominated new 2008 open-source projects. Need I say more?

[Rhomal]

In the other news, C dominated new 2008 open-source projects. Need I say more?

 

I am not sure what that validates? Open source is over rated more times then not.

 

That aside, thanks to all those folks above for the links, quite helpful!

[Humodour]

In the other news, C dominated new 2008 open-source projects. Need I say more?

 

I am not sure what that validates? Open source is over rated more times then not.

 

Good job showing your ignorance sunshine.

 

But anyway, Diamond's link is poignant because the programming trends of the FOSS community are very similar to general trends.

 

Although I do now expect you try to prove that VB is the most used programming language because it has the highest number of search results on some obscure search engine.

[Diamond]

I am not sure what that validates? Open source is over rated more times then not.

Yet you are using DNN, and now you are posting on PHP-based forum hosted on Apache server. Probably even using Firefox? Heck, even Windows still has some traces of BSD-licensed code in it. As for quality, lack of polish is not unique to OSS, there is plenty of commercial crapware too.

 

Although I do now expect you try to prove that VB is the most used programming language because it has the highest number of search results on some obscure search engine.

Alas, with general trends it's Java, if you trust Tiobe's index.

[Humodour]

I am not sure what that validates? Open source is over rated more times then not.

Yet you are using DNN, and now you are posting on PHP-based forum hosted on Apache server. Probably even using Firefox? Heck, even Windows still has some traces of BSD-licensed code in it. As for quality, lack of polish is not unique to OSS, there is plenty of commercial crapware too.

 

You forgot Wikipedia. Nokia and Google operate primarily on Open Source, too, these days. And President Obama is seriously considering replacing proprietary software in Government with OSS (which has already been done by other world governments). And of course OS X and the iPhone run on an open source BSD-based kernel. And you know that new 'Google Chrome' web browser, Rhomal? Yeah. Open source - based on the open-source Webkit engine used to power Apple's Safari web browser.

 

Although I do now expect you try to prove that VB is the most used programming language because it has the highest number of search results on some obscure search engine.

Alas, with general trends it's Java, if you trust Tiobe's index.

 

I meant on non-mobile and non-embedded (i.e. desktop) systems. But even in that Tiobe rank, C is a close second to Java. Still, it's interesting that Java's rank hasn't changed over time. It will only increase I guess, too, since Google's new Android operating system for mobile phones (which I might add is an open source Linux distro, Rhomal) only accepts Java programmes (and might I add again that Java is an open source software development environment, Rhomal?).

[samm]

All right then, can we get back to topic? I mean, Rhomal is working with VB.NET, and the thread was started for programming questions. Thanks.

[Gorth]

All right then, can we get back to topic? I mean, Rhomal is working with VB.NET, and the thread was started for programming questions. Thanks.

Good summary of the current thread status

[Rhomal]

In the other news, C dominated new 2008 open-source projects. Need I say more?

 

I am not sure what that validates? Open source is over rated more times then not.

 

Good job showing your ignorance sunshine.

 

But anyway, Diamond's link is poignant because the programming trends of the FOSS community are very similar to general trends.

 

Although I do now expect you try to prove that VB is the most used programming language because it has the highest number of search results on some obscure search engine.

 

Ignorant? While that may be true for other topics I keep pretty well informed on technology since, you know, people pay me loads of money to work in said field and it helps me if I keep up to date. It's these jobs that kept nwn2news and currently wodonlinenews ad, spam free for the record.

 

Second, I never said 'all' open source was over rated. If you would have asked me what I meant by that rather then, like your normal self, jump the gun and have a knee jerk reaction to something you disagree with I would have been more then happy to explain what I was referring to.

 

When I said 'open source' I had the non-commercial groups on mind. I was not pointing fingers at the red hats or the googles of the world. That have paid employees and setup little different then a MS or McAfee. AS they have the money, mgt and resources to manage and organize the project, unlike many other open source groups. What I find, generally, with open source groups that work on PHP packages or the like is the total lack of standards, direction or timely updates. The problem with open source and when theres little to no compensation for your work theres little drive to finish or maintain your project as time goes on. Look how many unfinished projects are on sourceforge for example to prove my point, in fact from looking over them not long ago I'd say at least 50% are unfinished and have not been touched for 6+ months (at least the topics I was looking at).

 

I was pointing fingers at groups like the PHP package xoops (which I have first hand knowledge) whos direction seems to change with the wind (and why I ended up dumping it to go with DNN which I'll address later). The open source folk bemoan and whine about commercial software, but at least you know when you go with a MS, IBM, McAfee or the like you know they will be around tomm, able to get real support and if they do make some major changes it won't be out of the blue and give some warning ahead of time.

 

While I am not saying commercial s/w makers are perfect, far from it, however I rather deal with the devil I know then some outfit run by a group of kids on dads PC.

 

As for DNN, if you'd not be ignorant about it you would know while yes the core s/w is open source, however the group is a spin off of a MS project by some MS employees and indirectly gets MS support. Now since they are organized quite well and the updates come out on a reasonable basis I have no issue with it. Keep in mind while there are free open source modules (news, forums, gallery, RSS feed etc) for DNN they are maintained by volunteers and this gets me back to my main issue. They are infrequently updated and most pale in comparison to their commercial counterparts. Hence why at least 75% of the modules I use I paid for. So while yes the core of my site is opens source the content modules are not. I got burned with xoops on that level, not again. My DNN site was FAR from free cost wise. Open source <> always mean free.

 

With these commercial modules I get support and updates and there are folks accountable to my satisfaction. With the open source projects you get either 'it'll be done when its done' or 'you should worship the ground we walk on for us doing this for you.' That's pretty much the only 2 replies you get from open source folks when you are critical or give criticism, at least in my experiences. In either case I can't run a public site with s/w developed by such kids.

 

I personally couldn't care less if s/w is open source of commercial as long as it WORKS and gets the job done I need. It is just from what I have encountered certain open source lags badly behind their commercial counterparts on several key levels.

 

As for VB I never said or even implied it was the best lang, it simple is something I want to pursue.. *shrugs* I simply made the case PHP is far from more secure as a CMS then VB/DNN ever has been. If that is a tough pill to swallow that's your problem, not mine. Sorry of those little things called 'facts' get in your way.

Edited January 25, 2009 by Rhomal

[Humodour]

I gather you don't mind us discussing this in the thread, then.

 

Ignorant?

 

Yes. See the posts above. Ignorant means lack of knowledge in an area. It's not an insult unless you or others view such a lack of knowledge as a woeful deficit.

 

I do not, but I will admit me it annoys me when ignorant opinion is touted as fact (which is not terribly fair on my part as I should correct you not condescend you).

 

While that may be true for other topics I keep pretty well informed on technology since, you know, people pay me loads of money to work in said field and it helps me if I keep up to date. It's these jobs that kept nwn2news and currently wodonlinenews ad, spam free for the record.

 

I don't care. You're still ignorant on open source software, just as I am ignorant on electronics and hardware these days.

 

Second, I never said 'all' open source was over rated.

 

But you implied it. How else did you expect people to interpret the statement "open source is overrated"?

 

When I said 'open source' I had the non-commercial groups on mind. I was not pointing fingers at the red hats or the googles of the world. That have paid employees and setup little different then a MS or McAfee.

 

Ubuntu started (and obviously remains) free and was then is funded by a multimillionaire, Firefox started free and then built a non-profit company around itself to develop it when it started converting people away from IE.

 

AS they have the money, mgt and resources to manage and organize the project, unlike many other open source groups.

 

Open source management is fine. Take a look at your typical successful open source project and you'll find that people contribute managerial skills like they do code. Those with poor management die.

 

What I find, generally, with open source groups that work on PHP packages or the like is the total lack of standards, direction or timely updates.

 

You haven't looked at the guts of many (any?) successful open source projects, then. You won't find any of those in the major Linux distributions for example, or Firefox, or many other things. Of course, those which do fail on these things often die. So? Blame that on poor management. It's certainly not unique to open source.

[Humodour]

Cont.

 

The problem with open source and when theres little to no compensation for your work theres little drive to finish or maintain your project as time goes on. Look how many unfinished projects are on sourceforge for example to prove my point, in fact from looking over them not long ago I'd say at least 50% are unfinished and have not been touched for 6+ months (at least the topics I was looking at).

 

It's called a free market. Only the fittest survive. It's not unique to open source. You see more open source projects die because they don't have to secure funding first (which acts like a vetting process). So what? Does it effect you if an open source project doesn't survive the first month? Any ideas that are half decent typically get picked up again later by people who have the drive to see them through.

 

Plenty of people are willing to code for free. For many it's a creative pleasure. Don't even bother trying to use "no monetary incentive" as a justification against open source.

 

And again you rely on a search result to 'prove' your point. No.

 

I was pointing fingers at groups like the PHP package xoops.

 

Then be specific. Don't claim all strawberries taste bad because you ate a rotten one.

 

The open source folk bemoan and whine about commercial software

 

Generally only the software which has an equivalent or superior open source alternative. If some random starts ranting about how all proprietary software is inhumane, just smile and pay attention to something else.

 

but at least you know when you go with a MS, IBM, McAfee or the like you know they will be around tomm, able to get real support and if they do make some major changes it won't be out of the blue and give some warning ahead of time.

 

Building a reliable reputation is a trait of companies and has nothing to do with open source software. The open source business model is to create the software for free and then provide sell support for it. This business model flies squarely in the face of the claims that "open source is not reliable".

 

While I am not saying commercial s/w makers are perfect, far from it, however I rather deal with the devil I know then some outfit run by a group of kids on dads PC.

 

Again you show your ignorance. Most open source programmers are highly educated and often have technical jobs (the most common of which is obviously programming).

 

I simply made the case PHP is far from more secure as a CMS then VB/DNN ever has been. If that is a tough pill to swallow that's your problem, not mine. Sorry of those little things called 'facts' get in your way.

 

I think you meant VB there.

 

But to the point: All you did was provide a search result as 'proof' of your claim. Which is absolutely ludicrous even if your claim had of been true.

[Rhomal]

You open source fanboys have thin skin.. really. And how you totally dismiss hard facts is amazing. That wasn't a random unknown search engine that was a reputable security site that compiles and reports daily security issues and exploits for all public s/w packages. Fact is DNN is historically MORE secure then the major PHP CMS's PERIOD. Sadly you can't wrap your little mind around that. Living in a state of denial must be fun.

 

Whatever, you are hell bent on being 'right' and I have no interest in debating with a ignorant zealot as its pointless. Moving on.

Edited January 27, 2009 by Rhomal

[Nightshape]

Whatever, you are hell bent on being 'right' and I have no interest in debating with a ignorant zealot as its pointless. Moving on.

 

I see, you've met Krezack? Ja?