Any Visual Basic guru's here?

[Rhomal]

Am looking to get back into development after MANY years away (last lang I programmed in as a job was Quick BASIC) am taking some online courses and what not but would like to be able to converse with someone knowledgeable in the field. Simply someone to pick your brain when I run into a wall with my training or have a ignorant question or two I have Visual Studio 2005 standard. Thanks!

[Bokishi]

Haha I was a VB guru maybe 7 years ago

Edited January 13, 2009 by Bokishi

[Humodour]

Oh god, mate.

 

Can I just give you one tip? If you learn any programming language, let it NOT be Visual Basic (or any of the BASIC line).

 

I highly recommend something like Python instead. Java is less fun and more obfuscated but also comes highly recommended. Both see massive use in the tech industry (from gaming to Google). You could always dive in the deep end and start with C, then move on to object oriented design from there (C++). I wouldn't recommend that, but some would.

 

http://www.python.org/

 

Here's 'hello world' in Python:

 

print("Hello, World!")

 

Here's a factorial function:

 

def factorial(number):
answer = 1
while number < 0:
	answer = answer * number
	number = number - 1
return answer

#you could also use *= and -= above	
#alternative version with recursion:

def factorial_rec(number):
 if number == 0:
	 return 1
 else:
	 return number * factorial_rec(number - 1)

[Nightshape]

... Yeah, stay the hell away from VB... Try C# or Python. They're both free.

 

You can get Visual Studio Express for C# free from microsoft.

[Rhomal]

VS 2005 has visual C#, Basic, J and C++. I need to dive into basic first as thats the lang my web site s/w is based off of and I want to build a couple specific custom modules for it. After VB ill get into C#.

 

Not interested in python or the like.

[Humodour]

Your website is based on VB? lol

[Nightshape]

If you're doing web development then surely, PHP, Python, ASP, or even Ruby on rails, are all better solutions that VB... MY GAWD!

 

I've found common ground with Krezack.

[samm]

VS 2005 has visual C#, Basic, J and C++. I need to dive into basic first as thats the lang my web site s/w is based off of and I want to build a couple specific custom modules for it. After VB ill get into C#.

I'll try to address these languages:

If you're into .NET stuff (it can pay to be), rather have a look at C#. I have programmed a lot in VB, but know next to nothing about VB.NET. All you can do in VB.NET, you can do in C# as well.

C++ pays if you want to delve deeper into lower level programming. It's also not dependent on a Microsoft platform, unlike C# and VB.NET.

Leave J alone, I'd say, and go directly for Java and not the Microsoft version.

 

As to what the previous posters mentioned: I don't like ASP, and I wonder why someone with an antipathy for VB would mention it The rest I agree with.

Edited January 13, 2009 by samm

[Rhomal]

Your website is based on VB? lol

 

VB.NET yes. Its a .asp site that uses .NET in the backend to run.

 

See here: www.dotnetnuke.com

 

Its a great free site package to drive a portal. Much better then a PHP site IMO (which nwn2news was a php site in fact)

[Humodour]

Its a great free site package to drive a portal. Much better then a PHP site IMO (which nwn2news was a php site in fact)

 

Ho boy. I'm sorry but it's absolutely ridiculous to hear about somebody fudging server-side scripting with VB and then actually advocating it to others as a replacement to PHP!

[Rhomal]

Its a great free site package to drive a portal. Much better then a PHP site IMO (which nwn2news was a php site in fact)

 

Ho boy. I'm sorry but it's absolutely ridiculous to hear about somebody fudging server-side scripting with VB and then actually advocating it to others as a replacement to PHP!

 

If you compare DNN vs most other major PHP CMS's from independent security sites you will find DNN has had far less exploits per year then most major PHP/CMS packages. The mindset something in vb.net is inherently more insecure then php is false, the opposite is actually more true (or simply say the DNN devs are better coders security wise then the php coders... either case numbers are numbers).

 

http://secunia.com/advisories/search/?search=dotnetnuke

 

3 major PHP packages

 

http://secunia.com/advisories/search/?search=xoops

 

http://secunia.com/advisories/search/?search=postnuke

 

http://secunia.com/advisories/search/?search=wordpress

 

http://secunia.com/advisories/search/?search=joomla <-- for comparison

 

I rest my case.

[Spider]

Still, if you have a .NET site, C# is a much stronger choice than VB. So with no prior knowledge, I'd go with C#. If you do have prior experience with VB, I suppose it makes sense to start there, but if you only remember minor detail, jumping in directly with C# is what I'd recommend.

[Rhomal]

Still, if you have a .NET site, C# is a much stronger choice than VB. So with no prior knowledge, I'd go with C#. If you do have prior experience with VB, I suppose it makes sense to start there, but if you only remember minor detail, jumping in directly with C# is what I'd recommend.

 

 

From my understanding of C# I totally agree. However I'd like to get on board with both and since a little of my past knowledge at least gets me started on the VB route i'd feel better with that. I plan on then taking a crash course in C# afterward. In the end I want to get comfy with BOTH, in today's IT field being able to program in both certainly makes me more dynamic then if I focus on only one.

 

Plus I can choose which of the 2 langs works best for the type of module(s) I want to develop for DNN.

 

However I don't want to turn this into a my lang can trump yours thread, that wasn't the point. I wasn't asking what I should study my question is, is there anyone here I can bounce questions off of here for vb.net? My minds made up on what, its the how I need help with

[Spider]

The training videos on http://www.asp.net/ are pretty good and a good point to get started. And I think the fora there are also decent. I say think because I've never had any of my questions answered, but I have found a lot of other answers there through the magic of google.

 

(and to be fair, the questions I have asked have been pretty damned complex)

 

Can't help more than that, since I know nothing of VB.

[Diamond]

To answer the original question, I suggest directing all your questions to Stack Overflow, an awesome new programmers' Q&A site, which I have become recently addicted to. The questions of any level, both basics and advanced, broad and specific, are answered pretty quickly and informatively. Unless you happen to ask a stupid question, that is.

 

Now, why do people get so worked up about VB.NET or have some sort pf preconception against it? It's virtually identical to C# semantically, and compiles to exactly the same byte code and uses exactly the same libraries. Though, admittedly it has a uglier syntax. Also, I tend to agree with some people who say that PHP is pretty badly designed programming language, even though it's popular (see? big news! popular does not equal good).

[Nightshape]

Though, admittedly it has a uglier syntax.

 

Reason enough, surely.

[Diamond]

Though, admittedly it has a uglier syntax.

 

Reason enough, surely.

Now that I think of it, I actually meant to say "uglier for me", due to coming from C background. But it may be a better option for someone coming from VB background. I mean, hey, if you look more closely, what exactly is wrong with VB syntax? EOF-delimited code? Python does it too. Writing "if .. then" rather than "if (...) {"? Bash and Pascal have it too. Case-insensitivity? Pascal.

 

The only thing I see that's left is social stigma inherited from pre-.NET VB as "uncool", and "newbie's language".

[Janmanden]

If you haven't already gotten it I would suggest getting the complete MSDN Library for Visual Studio, which is quite a guru in its own right. I used to have it on disc, but I think I read somewhere, that's it's free for download and not just for subscribers.

[Nightshape]

Though, admittedly it has a uglier syntax.

 

Reason enough, surely.

Now that I think of it, I actually meant to say "uglier for me", due to coming from C background. But it may be a better option for someone coming from VB background. I mean, hey, if you look more closely, what exactly is wrong with VB syntax? EOF-delimited code? Python does it too. Writing "if .. then" rather than "if (...) {"? Bash and Pascal have it too. Case-insensitivity? Pascal.

 

The only thing I see that's left is social stigma inherited from pre-.NET VB as "uncool", and "newbie's language".

 

C# is about as pretty as code can ever be syntax wise.

 

But ya know, we're argue chocolate and strawberry ice cream here?

 

P.S. C sucks. C++ owns.

[Diamond]

C# is about as pretty as code can ever be syntax wise.

 

But ya know, we're argue chocolate and strawberry ice cream here?

Yes we are. Python is prettier. C is even prettier.

I'd argue C# would has a Java-esque feel to it.

 

P.S. C sucks. C++ owns.

*bzzzzt* Wrong!

 

Maybe this was said in jest, but I'll bite.

 

C is THE programming language for systems programming. All production-quality drivers and operating systems are written in C. C++, even when being marketed as "better C", has gained very little traction in the systems programming world. C produces more compact code (to my experience, up to 3 times smaller!), which is important for embedded systems, where both RAM and firmware flash space are at premium. C++ bloats up due to template instantiation and additional code generated for exception handling.

 

C has a very stable set of ABIs, whereas, in C++ ABI design is a lot more complicated due to virtual functions, exceptions, etc. It is very difficult to maintain backward binary compatibility in C++, and distributing libraries in binary form in C++ is a pain. There is no standard C++ ABI, you can't usually link libraries built with C++ compilers from different vendors as they even mangle symbol names differently. In fact, different name-mangling schemes are even encouraged to prevent accidentally linking libraries with incompatible ABIs. And obviously, you can't distribute template-based libraries in binary form.

 

Mind you, I love C++, but it is by no means a perfect language. C++ gives you a lot of tools to solve your problem but also a lot of new and exciting ways to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ solves some of C's problems, but compounds other problems and creates new ones. Probably it has something to do with the fact that C++ is designed by a committee. "If you think C++ is not overly complicated, just what is a protected abstract virtual base pure virtual private destructor, and when was the last time you needed one?" - Tom Cargil, C++ Journal

 

Finally, every half-decent programmer should learn C to know what happens under the hood. I repeat: one must not forget their C roots. It is even important in order to understand what happens under the hood of higher-level constructs in C++. Try to implement inheritance and virtual function tables in C for educational purpose to see what I mean.

[Humodour]

C# is poor man's Java (and just as ugly). Java is poor man's Python. Use Jython.

 

But yeah, there's a reason people tend to mention C/C++ instead of just C or C++; they do not replace eachother, and you will (or should) use both.

[Nightshape]

C# is about as pretty as code can ever be syntax wise.

 

But ya know, we're argue chocolate and strawberry ice cream here?

Yes we are. Python is prettier. C is even prettier.

I'd argue C# would has a Java-esque feel to it.

 

Far too much personal opinion to really get into that discussion. I don't like Python's syntax at all, it just doesn't look nice to me... At all.

 

P.S. C sucks. C++ owns.

*bzzzzt* Wrong!

 

Maybe this was said in jest, but I'll bite.

 

It was for the most part said in jest.

 

C is THE programming language for systems programming. All production-quality drivers and operating systems are written in C. C++, even when being marketed as "better C", has gained very little traction in the systems programming world. C produces more compact code (to my experience, up to 3 times smaller!), which is important for embedded systems, where both RAM and firmware flash space are at premium. C++ bloats up due to template instantiation and additional code generated for exception handling.

 

C has a very stable set of ABIs, whereas, in C++ ABI design is a lot more complicated due to virtual functions, exceptions, etc. It is very difficult to maintain backward binary compatibility in C++, and distributing libraries in binary form in C++ is a pain. There is no standard C++ ABI, you can't usually link libraries built with C++ compilers from different vendors as they even mangle symbol names differently. In fact, different name-mangling schemes are even encouraged to prevent accidentally linking libraries with incompatible ABIs. And obviously, you can't distribute template-based libraries in binary form.

 

Mind you, I love C++, but it is by no means a perfect language. C++ gives you a lot of tools to solve your problem but also a lot of new and exciting ways to shoot yourself in the foot. C++ solves some of C's problems, but compounds other problems and creates new ones. Probably it has something to do with the fact that C++ is designed by a committee. "If you think C++ is not overly complicated, just what is a protected abstract virtual base pure virtual private destructor, and when was the last time you needed one?" - Tom Cargil, C++ Journal

 

Finally, every half-decent programmer should learn C to know what happens under the hood. I repeat: one must not forget their C roots. It is even important in order to understand what happens under the hood of higher-level constructs in C++. Try to implement inheritance and virtual function tables in C for educational purpose to see what I mean.

 

Thanks for the info, but I can't see C making a comeback for mainstream applications. That said some games developers still use C for their game engines, for good or ill.

[taks]

Thanks for the info, but I can't see C making a comeback for mainstream applications. That said some games developers still use C for their game engines, for good or ill.

regular C dominates the embedded signal processing world simply because it is simpler and a lot of the things that C++ brings to the table are unnecessary. i've never buckled down to learn C++, btw. quite frankly, i often need to get down to the assembly language anyway since gcc doesn't optimize for vector (SIMD) operations very well anyway.

 

taks

[Nightshape]

Thanks for the info, but I can't see C making a comeback for mainstream applications. That said some games developers still use C for their game engines, for good or ill.

regular C dominates the embedded signal processing world simply because it is simpler and a lot of the things that C++ brings to the table are unnecessary. i've never buckled down to learn C++, btw. quite frankly, i often need to get down to the assembly language anyway since gcc doesn't optimize for vector (SIMD) operations very well anyway.

 

taks

 

Doesn't surprise me at all really... It's always a matter of what's the best tool for the Job, different job's require different skills.

 

I'm not saying C is dead, I wouldn't dream of going near that.

 

Geez, sarcasam can quickly dig a hole.

[taks]

not a hole... i'm doing work in a very non-mainstream embedded framework which makes it more of an exception. how many people in the world write code for radar applicatons? i'd be willing to bet it's in the 5-figure range. the guy that wrote all of my peripheral control software is a C++/java programmer. made it tough for me when i had to make changes, hehe.

 

taks