Wrath of the Lich King

[Aristes]

So, it turns out we have a lot of WoWers on this board. Some of them might have heard that Wrath of the Litch King is due to release in a month. What I'd like to see in Wrath of the Litch King is....

 

First of all, a change to the epic loot tables. Folks say, "oh, PvP is harder than PvE, so you should get the best loot that way!" Folks, however, are idiots. It takes a hell of a lot more thought to go through even a normal instance at level than to go to a BG, lose every time, and still have enough honor and marks to buy epic gear. ...And, while it's not as good for PvE fighting as the badge and raid gear, it's much easier to get. You can get crafting recipies that are as good as PvP gear, but they're all just as tough to find. Meanwhile, the raids and heroic instances are difficult enough that a lot of players are compelled to gear up in BGs before they feel fit to go into the more difficult PvE areas. Just complete crap. Now, I don't think PvP should get the shaft. I just don't think that it should be so much easier to get decent epics (not great, but certainly decent) by failing in BGs than by succeeding in same level instances. Grinding out Badges is a pain in the ass. It takes real team work and perseverance and you get maybe 10-15 badges in a day. Doing even a ten man raid? Those are fun, don't get me wrong, but Kara takes a good four or five hours to clear. Gruul is faster, maybe, but good luck herding 25 characters into the pen. Doing a ten man raid should yield more badges than it currently does. So should heroics.

 

The highest level crafted items are a joke. As previous Seasons of arena gear come available for honor purchase, the last level trainable crafting gear is simply left behind. Sure, we can argue efficacy for the S gear in PvE, but the bottom line is that the small loss in the PvE area is minor compared to the overall gains otherwise. ...And some end game trainable crafted items are better than others. For instance, Bulwark of the Ancient Kings and Lionheart Executioner are much better than the Primalstrike set.

 

I haven't done a lot of PvPing. I guess I probably have a little over 10,000 honorable kills between all of my characters. That's not a lot. ...But my point isn't to attack PvP so much as to say that, as easy as it is to get gear by going to BGs, it should be just as easy to get similar level gear in PvE. Just compare Dirge to a Gladiator dagger, even S1. Hell, it takes time to amass the fortune in mats necessary to get to the last level of Blacksmithing and another fortune to craft the end tree armor. During that time, you can do a bunch of BGs and have armor and a belt.

 

On to instances. I don't think they should change at level normal instances at all. Fine, but increase epic level drops in heroic instances. As it stands now, the only real reason to do Heroics is for badge hunting. Fine, the badge system is one of the shining points of the game. Sadly, badge hunting is a long process and the end reward items are only a bit better than honor purchased PvP gear, but it's a step in the right direction. I say, increase the opportunities to collect badges. Likewise, the Arena system is another bright spot. The best PvP gear should come from Arena battles. Probably the area of the game that requires the most skill is the arena. Make the best PvE gear only available by raiding. So, high level raids for the best PvE gear and successful arena teams for the best PvP gear. Yes, that means a lot of folks will not have top level epics, but is that any worse than seeing some idiot running around in the Arathi Basin hillls doing Lord knows what so that their team can lose while they still get a marker for the battle?

 

I Suppose I could also rant a little bit about tanking. Mostly, except for raids and high end bosses, I don't see why anyone would want to have a warrior rather than a paladin tank. Don't get me wrong, warriors can tank anything and are more likely to survive the high end stuff than the others, but a paladin is better able to hold group aggro and survives just fine in any area most players are likely to see. Throw out AoE spells and you're good. The warrior tank has to work harder for the same effect. I have played with a lot of druids tanks and, from my experience, good druid tanks are great, but most are inferior to warriors or Paladins. Oddly, on the healing end, I think various healers are balanced pretty well. Sure, you might prefer a holy priest for striaght hps, but a resto druid has some advantages, particularly in certain fights.

 

As far as dungeons/raids go, Burning Crusade had some great ideas. I really like having the outlands dungeons grouped together. Ramps and Blood Furnace for entry level Outlands dungeoneering. Shattered Halls for end level dungeoneering. Underbog/Slave Pens -> Steam Vault. etc. It works well and it makes instances a lot more accessible. Heroic levels of those dungeons are entertaining, but I'd like to see just a bit more of a reward. Maybe one badge for the first boss, two badges for the second, and three badges for the third. That would be a modest increase in badge drops but not an overwhelming advantage.

 

I can't say much about raids. I haven't done a lot. I prefer to play with my own guild and I haven't seen the point in getting enough people of the right classes leveled and geared to run anything before WotLK. I will say, however, that I really enjoy Kara and that we will run it as a guild just for the hell of it pretty soon.

 

Of course, I like WoW, mostly because I have the chance voice chat with family members and friends who are part of my guild. If it were just the game itself, I'd probably have stopped playing and might take it up again when WotLK hits the shelves next month. As it is, I'm looking forward to it and I hope it gives me something new and fun to experience.

 

Take any of my comments for what they're worth. I'm not trying to pick a fight so much as state my opinions about the game and changes I'd like to see in the future.

[Hurlshort]

I didn't read your full post, but let me just say Warhammer Online makes WoW PvP look like excrement. I loved WoW, but I never really understood why they started focusing so much energy on the PvP.

[Aristes]

I didn't read your full post, but let me just say Warhammer Online makes WoW PvP look like excrement. I loved WoW, but I never really understood why they started focusing so much energy on the PvP.

 

Aw, hell, it's probably too long of a rant. I guess I wouldn't have read the whole thing myself.

 

Is warhammer online on the shelves already? 'Cause I'm buying it immediately if so.

[Nick_i_am]

Yeah, it's out.

[Aristes]

Ordered and on its way. This great news. I'm still looking forward to WotLK, but I must explore the new Warhammer game. I just wish it were 40k. Hopefully, they don't make pvp their main focus as WoW has done increasingly over the past couple of years.

[qt3.14159]

I started playing WoW a little over a year ago. For some bizzare reason I started on a PvP server and it took six months or so to get to level 50. We moved to a PvE server and then suddenly, we could actually level... it was... lovely. Anyhow, I hit 70 with my priest sometime in February / March and started worked on getting geared. She's a tailor, so she's wearing the high end crafted items and when I've looked at replacing them (the mooncloth set) with PvP gear, I've been unwilling to give up my PvE stats overall.

 

I've played a lot of PvP in my short career, though I tend to play in bursts. I enjoy it greatly, and have a fairly decent win percentage when I play (except on Friday nights, friday nights *SUCK* for ally PvP). Most of my gear has been PvP rewards, like you said, it's relatively easy to get.

 

I think that were the discontent comes in is that I will never have access to the very high end raid gear. I play with my SO, my sister and her husband. We run dungeons with four people. We do all right, but our tank is only just now geared well enough to think about trying heroics again.

 

I will never, ever be geared well enough, or keyed or have enough time for a real raid with people I don't know. It's just not going to happen. And really, I'm ok with that.... except I still feel like I'm wearing "welfare" epics and would like to experience content... ah well, maybe when we hit level 80 we'll be able to run Khara with four people.... but probably not.

[kirottu]

Because I

[qt3.14159]

If you can

[Nick_i_am]

haha, that's cute, you can have two sets of nerd children and make them grind gold for you.

[Aristes]

Ah well, I knew I'd see a defender of the status quo. It's almsot like casting "summon WoW defender." Don't think I'm trolling, though. I appreciate the conversation, but I disagree with you on several points.

 

I'm lazy too, but I'll try to quote as I respond.

 

"Loosing a battleground (badly) gives you about 5 to 10 times less honor than winning it. Only people who don

[Hurlshort]

WoW is such a gear-centric game. I realize that most MMO's are about loot, but WoW really seems to be all about the gear. For example, I worked to get an entire suite of the Imperial armor for my Pally, you know, the set that Stormwind Guards use. But it was really a weak set, and it even made me rather ineffective in the game. That always bothered me, it's one of the reasons I stopped playing.

[qt3.14159]

haha, that's cute, you can have two sets of nerd children and make them grind gold for you.

 

 

Pfftttt, my daughter (11) has her own account and in the six or more months since she got it her toon is level 20. She plays, she just winds up playing in areas that don't give her any experience for some reason... I haven't worried about it and actually moved my shaman (lvl 65!) onto her account so we could *conceivably* have a fifth... even if I'm multi-boxing. I'll say, though, multi-boxing a healer AND an upclose dps machine at the same time is.... complex... lol I should probably switch her to elemental and keep her in the back with my priest, I guess...

 

*shrug*

 

And yes, we are raising nerd children. It's awesome!

[Aristes]

By 11, I think she'd be able to learn some of the complexities of the class. From the damage output I've seen, she should do well as either an elemental or enhancement shaman, but I think I'd rather have another range person.

 

So, on what server is your character, Hurlshot? I'll make a toon there and maybe see you around.

 

EDIT: Oops, I mean on WH, not WoW.

Edited October 9, 2008 by Aristes

[I want teh kotor 3]

From what I played of WoS, I remeber vE as being epic fail on a stick, and vP only slight less of an epic fail.

 

P.S.: You people realize that you're killing Warcraft and KoTOR, right?

Edited October 9, 2008 by I want teh kotor 3

[Nick_i_am]

If by killng you mean 'giving tons of money', then yeah, yeah.

 

No, but you're right, really, it's not like they're making Starcraft 2 or Diablo 3, SP games are dead to them man, DEAD.

[I want teh kotor 3]

If by killng you mean 'giving tons of money', then yeah, yeah.

 

No, but you're right, really, it's not like they're making Starcraft 2 or Diablo 3, SP games are dead to them man, DEAD.

 

When did I mention Diablo or Starcraft? But notice that Warcraft was conspicuously absent from that list...

[Nick_i_am]

Notice they're being funded by WoW and that a warcraft in their wake is far from an impossibility.

 

Fact is, without WoW Blizzard would be at serious risk of a buyout by now.

 

But whatever you're just using this as a platform for your own predudice so it's not like you give a crap about what i'm saying.

[Hurlshort]

By 11, I think she'd be able to learn some of the complexities of the class. From the damage output I've seen, she should do well as either an elemental or enhancement shaman, but I think I'd rather have another range person.

 

So, on what server is your character, Hurlshot? I'll make a toon there and maybe see you around.

 

EDIT: Oops, I mean on WH, not WoW.

 

I'm on White Tower as Chaos and Tor Elyr as Order. But the game was crashing for me a lot, I think I'll give it a few months and try it again. Still is a very good game though, I recommend it despite the crashing.

[I want teh kotor 3]

Notice they're being funded by WoW and that a warcraft in their wake is far from an impossibility.

 

Fact is, without WoW Blizzard would be at serious risk of a buyout by now.

 

But whatever you're just using this as a platform for your own predudice so it's not like you give a crap about what i'm saying.

 

Umm... have you heard of Actiblizzard? They basically were bought out.

[Nick_i_am]

Exactly. Look at what's happening to Esemble.

 

'erm, no, you're going to make Halo games now'

 

'oh, and when you're done we're destorying your studio, baibai!'

Edited October 10, 2008 by Nick_i_am

[I want teh kotor 3]

Exactly. Look at what's happening to Esemble.

 

'erm, no, you're going to make Halo games now'

 

'oh, and when you're done we're destorying your studio, baibai!'

 

 

Please don't remind me.

[Aristes]

I'm on White Tower as Chaos and Tor Elyr as Order. But the game was crashing for me a lot, I think I'll give it a few months and try it again. Still is a very good game though, I recommend it despite the crashing.

 

Well, swinely, I already purchased it! lol Seriously, though, I love warhammer universe. I was planning on buying no matter what. I've just been distracted by other things for the past several months.

[kirottu]

Can you truly be suggesting that getting battleground gear for the solo player is just as difficult as forming a pick-up group to do raiding? Because the gear you get from instances, even heroics, doesn't compare to BG epics. The PvE gear that competes with honor purchased kit is either badge gear or gear from raids. Even if you are in a large raiding guild (and I have been) it still takes a while to arrange the raiding times, assemble the group, make sure you have the right composition of classes, and then get started. For similar level gear, you're better off grinding BGs. ...And I'm not a BG slouch. My main, a rogue, does a lot of damage and has a PvP set. Mostly BG "wellfare" epics, but I have a couple items off of the brutal set. I win plenty and lose a lot too. The point is, you will get enough honor to get your set by doing straight BGs for a couple of weeks. Someone who doesn't play WoW reading your post would think there might be some sort of parity in the PvE v PvP effort. There is not. I have done every outlands instance and a handful of raids. I have been in a raiding guild. you know those raiding guilds, the ones with the five page "application" to join? Give me a break. And getting the 25 people necessary to do Gruul's lair (which I HAVE done, by the way) is as easy as going to do BGs? Hell, go to Alterac Valley, particularly as Alliance, and you can literally goof off, never fight a single person, and still win three marks and a ton of bonus honor. I'm sorry, Kirottu, maybe I'm too harsh in my attack on PvP, but your defense isn't any better. While it's true that it takes longer to get PvP gear by losing, the point is you can't get PvE gear by failing to win.

 

I admit that grinding honor for PvP epic gear is easier(but it isn

[Nick_i_am]

Please don't remind me.

 

Exactly, WoW makes Blizzard far too valuble to close.

[qt3.14159]

I admit that grinding honor for PvP epic gear is easier(but it isn