Dutch Embassy bombed in Pakistan

[GreasyDogMeat]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24926365

 

The Danish will probably be a target for the next 50 years over a cartoon. I guess it is now the Islamic extremist's goal to prove that the cartoon's message was 100% correct.

[Yuusha]

How would I know? I'm not an extremist.

[GreasyDogMeat]

I have no idea how you would know as I wasn't asking you, or anyone specifically.

 

Just amazes me these fools have been stewing in a basement plotting for... how long has it been now? Over a flippin' cartoon. What happened to sending a letter of disaproval...

[Xard]

 

 

lol

Edited June 2, 2008 by Xard

[Xard]

I feel so ashamed for whole western europe. If we had had balls those cartoons would've been printed in all magazines in all western countries.

 

Especially we finns and swedes should be ashamed.

[Rosbjerg]

Just to clarify - The Dutch embassy wasn't hit (in case anyone from Holland should be worried).

 

No Danish citizens were hurt, only Pakistani employees working in the embassy, people on the street and in the opposite building.

 

One thing is to hate a country so much you want to kill it's citizen, but killing your own people for the slim chance of injuring a few of your "enemies" is just insane.

[Azarkon]

People will tolerate anything - except those things that they refuse to tolerate.

 

This is why "multi-culturalism" has failed, at least in the eyes of a growing number of people in the West. The "feel good" era of diversity rested on the assumption that people who are different, are only different in the right areas. "Tolerating" a different taste in food, a distinctive style of clothing, a certain aesthetic, etc. cost us nothing. Who doesn't want to be able to order Chinese, Japanese, Indian, Mexican, Italian, or French all from the comfort of one's own home? Who doesn't like seeing funny-dressed characters in TV shows (all speaking English) acting out their odd and exotic cultures? Who doesn't want an extra company holiday for the Spring Festival, or to watch someone fast during Ramadan? Who cares if American kids are turning to anime instead of Marvel comics?

 

Those aspects of cultures are trivial, yet it is that triviality that makes them superficial. When you reduce a culture to the equivalent of a culinary choice, it's easy to be "tolerant." But cultures are far more than the food people eat, the clothes they wear, and the TV shows they watch. And that is what we are slowly coming to terms with, here in the West - that people in different cultures are not only different superficially, but also deep inside. They don't just eat and dress differently. They talk differently (Spanish). They socialize differently (extended families). They think differently ("Asian values"). They believe differently (Islam). They act differently (honor killing).

 

And suddenly - or perhaps, slowly - diversity and multi-culturalism no longer seem such great ideas. For you see, when it comes down to it, people are not tolerant. We don't think that every culture is right in its own way. We don't accept that morality is relative. We don't believe that all beliefs are equally valid. We just don't - and so multi-culturalism fails, and in time so will the West's honeymoon with diversity and tolerance. In time, Western culture will strike back - hard - against the likes of Islam and even globalism (which is, after all, a compromise between cultures). What form this retaliation will take is hard to predict (it could be a resurgent Christian fundamentalism, strident atheism, bloodthirsty liberalism, etc.)

 

But what you are witnessing is the transition, maybe even the calm before the storm.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Azarkon

[Xard]

ITT Azarkon is on shrooms

[Azarkon]

Nah, just trying to observe things from an outsider's POV, which is refreshing. Joining in the chorus of righteous condemnation - now that would be Azarkon on shrooms.

[Xard]

Multiculturalism has been working for the biggest part at least here in Europe - heck, whole America is (or used to be) prime example of this. It's not failure of whole multiculturalism

 

Cases like these are small part of the whole and serious threat/problem, but to comden whole multiculturalism as doomed because of this is stupid

 

"They talk differently (Spanish). They socialize differently (extended families). They think differently ("Asian values"). They believe differently (Islam). They act differently (honor killing)."

 

1. works

2. works

3. works mostly

4. works mostly minus some (Now it *is* censored - Gorth) (aww **** that wasn't censored Well that was just provokation )

5. honor killings are small part of different acts people do. But yeah, this is major problem point, in Europe mostly due to musilm immigrants

 

 

But multiculturalism can't be helped.

Western culture will strike back - hard - against the likes of Islam and even globalism (which is, after all, a compromise between cultures). What form this retaliation will take is hard to predict (it could be a resurgent Christian fundamentalism, strident atheism, bloodthirsty liberalism, etc.)

 

This is the part that makes me think you're on shrooms. There will be no strike back against globalism because such is impossible

Edited June 2, 2008 by Gorth
Questionable choice of expression

[Azarkon]

Multiculturalism has been working for the biggest part at least here in Europe - heck, whole America is (or used to be) prime example of this.

 

Ah, but what you've got, thus far, isn't multi-culturalism. It's superficial diversity, the sort of arguments liberal-humanists have been putting out for ages: difference is only skin deep. Well, it's not, and multi-culturalism works only insofar as people of different cultures are willing to assimilate themselves to the host culture. That's not multi-culturalism. That's monoculturalism - with some minor variations.

 

What I argue is that the ideology of multi-culturalism is failing, and that soon Western society will have to find a different kernel of core values. In some sense that's already happened. Americans are no longer clamoring about tolerance and diversity. Nowadays, we talk about democracy, human rights, and the rule of (secular) law. There's nothing fundamentally multi-cultural about any of these concepts. Democracy is dictated (not a democracy? Regime change!) Human rights are judged (no freedom of speech? Regime change!) The rule of (secular) law is enforced (shariah law? Regime change!)

 

Europeans have, in some sense, yet to experience this epiphany. Your governments are still wavering between whether to clamp down, hard, on the Muslim immigrants clamoring for Islamization or to try and appease them. Well, there is a growing chorus of voices - grassroots in origin, I'd argue - that want to do the former. You're actually part of this chorus, even though you might not think of it as such.

 

There will be no strike back against globalism because such is impossible

 

How do you define globalism? I have to ask, because there are many people who think that "globalism" means "global Westernization" and that's just not what it is.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Azarkon

[Sand]

When I look at those pics I have to just ask... what the **** is wrong with those people?

 

I would never want to live in a country that is not a democracy, that does not have freedom of speech, nor uses some religion as a basis for the primary law of the land, Azarkon, especially shariah law.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Sand

[Yuusha]

@Xard:

 

[offensive racial epithet removed ] huh? Well that reveals a lot of your character. I've always wondered why Finland has the second highest suicide rate in Europe. Is it because of the alcohol? Or is it because of low Serotonin levels due to the shortage of natural light during the dark season and other neurotransmitter disorders in the brain? Whatever the reason for your depression, resorting to racial slurs is just stupid.

 

So cheer the **** up, EMO.

 

Edited by SteveThaiBinh

[SteveThaiBinh]

This thread gets one chance, and one chance only. Any racial insults or flaming and it will be locked. There is a serious discussion to be had on the way the hostility towards Denmark in the Muslim world has and will develop, so let's have that discussion.

[Xard]

...crap, this is turning ugly really bad. (DON'T LOCK THIS PLZ, just prune my answers or something instead if its problem)

 

Yuusha, you should know I write in provocative style every once in a while for the lulz and to get interesting reactions from people. My comment before "nothing good ever comes out from Levant" nearly got me banned and my only purpose was to provoke curiosity so I could make a rant why I often feel cultural, philosophical, religious and historical wieght Levant has imposed on the rest of the world is negative for most part

 

It had nothing to do with modern day or any of modern religions directly. It was going to be big rant on why philosophically a lot of areas "products" are ludicruous and imbecile intellectually and due to large influence of abrahamic religions and culture in modern world it is harming to humanity as whole. Level of Indian and Greek thinking (religious, philosophical etc.) during the same time was so much ahead it isn't even funny yet Levant is most important of these all

 

[Edited by SteveThaiBinh because apparently twice isn't enough.]

Edited June 2, 2008 by SteveThaiBinh

[Sand]

Anyway, Muslims need to lighten up. So a cartoon was made of their prophet. Big freaking deal. People have done more offensive things with other religious icons like Moses, Jesus, the Pope, and so on. Islamic extremists need to grow up and realize the world does not revolve around them or their interpretations of God.

 

Xard, stop typing that word in already. Sheesh!

[Xard]

@Xard:

 

[offensive racial epithet removed ] huh? Well that reveals a lot of your character. I've always wondered why Finland has the second highest suicide rate in Europe. Is it because of the alcohol? Or is it because of low Serotonin levels due to the shortage of natural light during the dark season and other neurotransmitter disorders in the brain? Whatever the reason for your depression, resorting to racial slurs is just stupid.

 

So cheer the **** up, EMO.

 

Edited by SteveThaiBinh

 

Alcohol is greatest gift humanity was ever blessed with and monoteistic belief in loving god (who wants to behead infidenls though) is biggest neurotransmitter disorder that can exist

 

And yeah, it was stupid. Then again that word is simply too funny.

 

And somewhat accurate if you use reasoning "uneducated masses in african masses aren't - not their fault - the brighterst bunch of humanity and arabs live in where there's a lot of sand and judging by their behaviour neither are they"

[Pidesco]

Anyway, Muslims need to lighten up. So a cartoon was made of their prophet. Big freaking deal. People have done more offensive things with other religious icons like Moses, Jesus, the Pope, and so on. Islamic extremists need to grow up and realize the world does not revolve around them or their interpretations of God.

 

Xard, stop typing that word in already. Sheesh!

 

Any graphic depiction of Muhammad is strictly in the Muslim religion. It's like the equivalent of forcing a Jew to eat pork. Only the reaction is extreme because the Muslims complaining are, well, extremists.

[Sand]

One of my friends is Jewish. He eats pork products. Mostly on pizza during game sessions.

[Xard]

Anyway, Muslims need to lighten up. So a cartoon was made of their prophet. Big freaking deal. People have done more offensive things with other religious icons like Moses, Jesus, the Pope, and so on. Islamic extremists need to grow up and realize the world does not revolve around them or their interpretations of God.

 

Xard, stop typing that word in already. Sheesh!

 

Any graphic depiction of Muhammad is strictly in the Muslim religion. It's like the equivalent of forcing a Jew to eat pork. Only the reaction is extreme because the Muslims complaining are, well, extremists.

 

Actually no images rule SHOULD exist in jewish and christian beliefs too... I think sometime before 1000 AD it was actually enforced in christian world

 

Too bad it was dropped from Ten Commandments due to being "archaic and silly" rule. The whole christian world is having big irony bomb ticking all the time.

 

Just imagine faces of all the virtuous sculpturers when they learn at Heaven's gate that they've been committing sin all the time on earth!

 

edit: bomb

Edited June 2, 2008 by Xard

[Pidesco]

One of my friends is Jewish. He eats pork products. Mostly on pizza during game sessions.

 

He is religiously Jewish?

[Sand]

One of my friends is Jewish. He eats pork products. Mostly on pizza during game sessions.

 

He is religiously Jewish?

 

Mostly.

[Pidesco]

He's probably not an orthodox Jew, then. My point stands of course.

[Sand]

He's probably not an orthodox Jew, then. My point stands of course.

 

Extremists, regardless of religion, suck.

[Gorgon]

This is retarded.

 

Anyway from a terrorist strategy standpoint I guess it makes sense. It's an issue that has shown itself in the past to be extremely milkable for outrage. Although moderate Muslims will of course be queuing up to distance themselves from this, the perpetrators are more interested in their own support base.

 

In any case such overt violence will probably end up burying the issue once and for all. The cartoons will lose their capacity as a rallying point for outrages against Islam. Long overdue of course.

Edited June 2, 2008 by Gorgon