old jedi order or new ?

[Rosbjerg]

Good questions Albion72, but since a topic was already adressing this, I merged the two.

[Kyrivian]

Don't forget that in (all?) of 4-6, someone force chokes someone else. Including Luke. Though I don't remember much choking from the prequals. Eh. Probably wanted that to be Vader's thing.

Edited June 20, 2008 by Kyrivian

[Darth Clumber]

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan must use breath control in order to save them selves from dioxes (sp?), the gas that the Trade Federation floods into their guest room. Wookieepedia has stated (with citations from Kreia) that few Jedi have mastered Breath Control, but the ones who have could hold their breath for hours and even days. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are two Jedi who had a relatively typical Jedi life - no epic teachings of any sort.

 

Later on in the movie we see the pair of Jedi run from Droidekas. Watch this seen again and you will notice their extreme running speed. (Comparable to Knight Speed and its enhancements from KOTOR I and II).

 

How exactly does breath control work? Does it filter the air to make it clean or does it just make it so you don't have to breath at all? From KOTOR 2 it sounded like you didn't need to breath anymore. This makes me think Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were using a different power because they had to use those weird little devices to breath underwater.

 

Pretty much the only Star Wars game I've played beyond KOTOR 2 have been Jedi Outcast which also had speed and Battlefront which allowed Jedi to run super fast, so i assume here that speed is a pretty common power throughout history.

 

 

What you really need to do here though is compare the magnitude of certain powers. In the movies we see Palpatine using lightning on Luke and it doesn't look too impressive. In KOTOR we have characters who hold up one hand and shoot lightning everywhere, killing all the enemies around them.

 

Bastila's battle meditation. She had the power to augment the power of an enitre fleet. We see nothing cpmparable to this in any of the movies.

 

 

Also, all the characters in KOTOR are way stronger than anyone in the movies. In the movies when someone is hit once by a lightsaber body parts usually fall off. In the KOTOR games it takes like a hundred hits with a lightsaber to kill someone. The old Jedi order obviously had some lightsaber resistance abilities.

[Kyrivian]

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan must use breath control in order to save them selves from dioxes (sp?), the gas that the Trade Federation floods into their guest room.

 

How exactly does breath control work? Does it filter the air to make it clean or does it just make it so you don't have to breath at all? From KOTOR 2 it sounded like you didn't need to breath anymore. This makes me think Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were using a different power because they had to use those weird little devices to breath underwater.

 

It's weird. When the Trade Federation gasses the guest room, they don't use the breath control devices they use when they go underwater. Inconsistancy for the lose.

[Darth Clumber]

It might not be inconsistancy. It probably could just be two different things. You don't use a gas mask to explore the ocean floor. You don't use scooba gear when the air is poisonous.

[Bass-GameMaster]

It might not be inconsistancy. It probably could just be two different things. You don't use a gas mask to explore the ocean floor. You don't use scooba gear when the air is poisonous.

 

Thank you Capt'n Obvious!!!!

[Jediphile]

How exactly does breath control work? Does it filter the air to make it clean or does it just make it so you don't have to breath at all? From KOTOR 2 it sounded like you didn't need to breath anymore. This makes me think Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were using a different power because they had to use those weird little devices to breath underwater.

 

Or they simply used those devices because they had them and using them was more convenient. How breath control works is undetermined, as far as I know, though, which is probably because knowing how it works is not relevant to the plot. It can be argued that jedi/sith can do such things, and then that is enough. They might simply absorb oxygen-molecules straight into the body for all we know. But I don't think it's terribly important...

 

Pretty much the only Star Wars game I've played beyond KOTOR 2 have been Jedi Outcast which also had speed and Battlefront which allowed Jedi to run super fast, so i assume here that speed is a pretty common power throughout history.

 

Fast speed seems to be fairly common for both jedi and sith, yes.

 

What you really need to do here though is compare the magnitude of certain powers. In the movies we see Palpatine using lightning on Luke and it doesn't look too impressive. In KOTOR we have characters who hold up one hand and shoot lightning everywhere, killing all the enemies around them.

 

Luke is a jedi and can counter/redirect some of the emperor's lighting, whereas common people cannot and get fried. Okay, so Luke may not be most experienced jedi at that point, but - going by game terms - he doesn't have to be to learn Force or Energy Reistance. And according to the revised D20 rulebook, Luke is a Fringer/Jedi Guardian level 2/7 by the end of RotJ.

 

Bastila's battle meditation. She had the power to augment the power of an enitre fleet. We see nothing cpmparable to this in any of the movies.

 

Because Battle Meditation was only thought of after the original trilogy was made. Until Nomi Sunrider was given the power in the Tales of the Jedi comic books, it did not exist in Star Wars. It has been speculated, though, that Palpatine had this power, and used the power against the rebels during the Battle of Endor, which is why the battle turned, after Vader killed him. That's speculation, however, and seems to me to rationalize the events after the fact.

 

Also, all the characters in KOTOR are way stronger than anyone in the movies. In the movies when someone is hit once by a lightsaber body parts usually fall off. In the KOTOR games it takes like a hundred hits with a lightsaber to kill someone. The old Jedi order obviously had some lightsaber resistance abilities.

 

Comparing the movies to the games in this manner is usually bound to lead to all sorts of flawed conclusions. The simple fact is that the games use a very simplistic hit point system (from D&D 3e) to represent damage. For one reason this is to ensure that your main character doesn't lose limbs left and right, since that is deemed to make the game less fun to play. Losing a limb can be done in the movies for dramatic purposes to serve the evolving plot, but then writers have absolute control over how things evolve plotwise in both movies, books and comics. They do not in computer games or even RPGs. Besides, it's not true - Kreia lost her hand, remember?

[Darth Clumber]

On that last point I was joking.

 

WTF is the D20 rulebook? You're assigning stats and classes to a movie? What? And what's a Fringer?

 

Your battle meditation point doesn't mean anything. So what if they didn't think of it before? It still means that the old jedi order had powers the new doesn't, and your exuses mean nothing. On your line of thought we could say that the Republic had better technology than the Empire because movies 1-3 have better special effects.

[Jediphile]

On that last point I was joking.

 

WTF is the D20 rulebook? You're assigning stats and classes to a movie? What? And what's a Fringer?

 

Maybe it'll surprise you to know that the KotOR games are founded a system used by the Star Wars tabletop RPG system, the latest incarnation of which is based on the D20 system, which basically just means it uses the same base as the third edition of Dungeons & Dragons.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D20_system

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars_d20

 

The fringer is a class in the D20 Star Wars system, just like other non-jedi classes such as scoundrels like Atton (pre-jedi) and Mission, tech specialists like Bao-Dur (pre-jedi), soldiers like Carth or Canderous, or scouts like Zaalbar.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fringer

 

And no, I don't bring it as stats relevant to movie - you did by saying the following:

 

Also, all the characters in KOTOR are way stronger than anyone in the movies. In the movies when someone is hit once by a lightsaber body parts usually fall off. In the KOTOR games it takes like a hundred hits with a lightsaber to kill someone. The old Jedi order obviously had some lightsaber resistance abilities.

 

My point is that it's a minefield beginning to do that, which you did by claiming characters in KotOR are far more powerful than those we see in the movie. But there are gamebalancing reasons for that, and hence it is best not to interpret too much from that.

 

Your battle meditation point doesn't mean anything. So what if they didn't think of it before? It still means that the old jedi order had powers the new doesn't, and your exuses mean nothing. On your line of thought we could say that the Republic had better technology than the Empire because movies 1-3 have better special effects.

 

What excuses? That's just an explanation. Besides, post-movie EU see Luke, Leia and the emperor far, far stronger than we did in the movies. Sure, it can be argued that much was forgotten because the jedi were all but wiped out by Palpatine's treachery, while he and Vader were the only two sith around, but much was reclaimed later with the re-discovery of Ossus, Korriban and other forgotten places.

 

Besides, no matter what anyone argues, George Lucas has decreed that Palpatine was the ultimate sith lord, and in Star Wars his word is law.

[Darth Clumber]

Also, all the characters in KOTOR are way stronger than anyone in the movies. In the movies when someone is hit once by a lightsaber body parts usually fall off. In the KOTOR games it takes like a hundred hits with a lightsaber to kill someone. The old Jedi order obviously had some lightsaber resistance abilities.

 

My point is that it's a minefield beginning to do that, which you did by claiming characters in KotOR are far more powerful than those we see in the movie. But there are gamebalancing reasons for that, and hence it is best not to interpret too much from that.

 

OMG, I said I was completely joking about that. I didn't seriously beleive that people during the KOTOR time had lightsaber resistant skin.

 

Your battle meditation point doesn't mean anything. So what if they didn't think of it before? It still means that the old jedi order had powers the new doesn't, and your exuses mean nothing. On your line of thought we could say that the Republic had better technology than the Empire because movies 1-3 have better special effects.

 

What excuses? That's just an explanation. Besides, post-movie EU see Luke, Leia and the emperor far, far stronger than we did in the movies. Sure, it can be argued that much was forgotten because the jedi were all but wiped out by Palpatine's treachery, while he and Vader were the only two sith around, but much was reclaimed later with the re-discovery of Ossus, Korriban and other forgotten places.

 

Besides, no matter what anyone argues, George Lucas has decreed that Palpatine was the ultimate sith lord, and in Star Wars his word is law.

 

 

By new jedi order are we talking about episodes 1-3 time or post episode 6? I know next to nothing about the latter so I might have to leave this argument if that's the case. How is the emperor stronger in post-movie EU when he died in the movies? Please, PLEASE don't tell me he survived that fall, or that he was cloned or anything.

 

Can you give me a direct quote? When he says that, is he saying he is the most powerful, or could he just mean he is the ultimate Sith Lord because of what he accomplished, and his ingenious methods of accomplishing it?

[Jediphile]

By new jedi order are we talking about episodes 1-3 time or post episode 6? I know next to nothing about the latter so I might have to leave this argument if that's the case.

 

I'm fairly certain that when this topic started, "old jedi order" meant the jedi order during Revan's time, which was all but annihilated in TSL, while "new jedi order" meant the jedi order during the prequel movies (episodes 1-3). Now I'm not so sure, though...

 

How is the emperor stronger in post-movie EU when he died in the movies? Please, PLEASE don't tell me he survived that fall, or that he was cloned or anything.

 

Erm... Okay, I won't then.

 

Otherwise you can look here, since that way I wasn't then one who said it... http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Palpatine#P....80.9311_ABY.29

 

Can you give me a direct quote? When he says that, is he saying he is the most powerful, or could he just mean he is the ultimate Sith Lord because of what he accomplished, and his ingenious methods of accomplishing it?

 

IIRC, he said something to that effect in an interview on 60 Minutes at one point. That being the case, I can't point to a convenient link, I'm afraid.

[Albion72]

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan must use breath control in order to save them selves from dioxes (sp?), the gas that the Trade Federation floods into their guest room. Wookieepedia has stated (with citations from Kreia) that few Jedi have mastered Breath Control, but the ones who have could hold their breath for hours and even days. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are two Jedi who had a relatively typical Jedi life - no epic teachings of any sort.

 

Later on in the movie we see the pair of Jedi run from Droidekas. Watch this seen again and you will notice their extreme running speed. (Comparable to Knight Speed and its enhancements from KOTOR I and II).

 

How exactly does breath control work? Does it filter the air to make it clean or does it just make it so you don't have to breath at all? From KOTOR 2 it sounded like you didn't need to breath anymore. This makes me think Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were using a different power because they had to use those weird little devices to breath underwater.

 

Pretty much the only Star Wars game I've played beyond KOTOR 2 have been Jedi Outcast which also had speed and Battlefront which allowed Jedi to run super fast, so i assume here that speed is a pretty common power throughout history.

 

 

What you really need to do here though is compare the magnitude of certain powers. In the movies we see Palpatine using lightning on Luke and it doesn't look too impressive. In KOTOR we have characters who hold up one hand and shoot lightning everywhere, killing all the enemies around them.

 

Bastila's battle meditation. She had the power to augment the power of an enitre fleet. We see nothing cpmparable to this in any of the movies.

 

 

Also, all the characters in KOTOR are way stronger than anyone in the movies. In the movies when someone is hit once by a lightsaber body parts usually fall off. In the KOTOR games it takes like a hundred hits with a lightsaber to kill someone. The old Jedi order obviously had some lightsaber resistance abilities.

 

If I remember correctly the Republic started winning some serious ground victories after the Jedi became the Generals. Battle Meditation? Maybe.

 

It all goes back to the game/movie argument. In games, people want Epic powers. In movies, you tend to stay away from a big red/orange death beam connecting a Sith to his victim.

[Bass-GameMaster]

Sorry to seem like an ass.. but are you a complete dumb ass? George owns Lucas Arts... hes made many statements on the franchise aswell.

 

Well, are you?

 

Just because someone owns something doesn't mean that he is involved in everything that is done.

Bill Gates isn't developing software for Microsoft, just like the owners of Walmart, IKEA or any other billionaire don't have anything to do with the business of local parts of the company.

 

Lucas is a film-maker, he produces movies, not to mention that he is father of three children, he has no time to lead companies like LucasArts, ILM or Skywalker Sound. Every sub-company has its own management which makes the decisions. Above them, is another management which makes sure that all the managements of the sub-companies are doing their job properly.

 

That is a fact. Just because Lucas gets involved in certain production circles which require the word of the creator of Star Wars, doesn't mean that he is involved in day-to-day business. Why do you think these people are around, because Lucas likes to throw money at people while he is doing their job?

 

What kind of movies ILM and Skywalker Sound are working on, and which games LucasArts is working on, is decided by themselves. The president of LucasArts decides how to handle the franchises they have. He decides what kind of release schedule they want to have (see the change from many games to just one big game per year that they were talking about), whether they are producing in-house or outsourcing the material, and which games have a high priority.

 

 

Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan must use breath control in order to save them selves from dioxes (sp?), the gas that the Trade Federation floods into their guest room. Wookieepedia has stated (with citations from Kreia) that few Jedi have mastered Breath Control, but the ones who have could hold their breath for hours and even days. Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are two Jedi who had a relatively typical Jedi life - no epic teachings of any sort.

 

Later on in the movie we see the pair of Jedi run from Droidekas. Watch this seen again and you will notice their extreme running speed. (Comparable to Knight Speed and its enhancements from KOTOR I and II).

 

How exactly does breath control work? Does it filter the air to make it clean or does it just make it so you don't have to breath at all? From KOTOR 2 it sounded like you didn't need to breath anymore. This makes me think Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were using a different power because they had to use those weird little devices to breath underwater.

 

Pretty much the only Star Wars game I've played beyond KOTOR 2 have been Jedi Outcast which also had speed and Battlefront which allowed Jedi to run super fast, so i assume here that speed is a pretty common power throughout history.

 

 

What you really need to do here though is compare the magnitude of certain powers. In the movies we see Palpatine using lightning on Luke and it doesn't look too impressive. In KOTOR we have characters who hold up one hand and shoot lightning everywhere, killing all the enemies around them.

 

Bastila's battle meditation. She had the power to augment the power of an enitre fleet. We see nothing cpmparable to this in any of the movies.

 

 

Also, all the characters in KOTOR are way stronger than anyone in the movies. In the movies when someone is hit once by a lightsaber body parts usually fall off. In the KOTOR games it takes like a hundred hits with a lightsaber to kill someone. The old Jedi order obviously had some lightsaber resistance abilities.

 

If I remember correctly the Republic started winning some serious ground victories after the Jedi became the Generals. Battle Meditation? Maybe.

 

It all goes back to the game/movie argument. In games, people want Epic powers. In movies, you tend to stay away from a big red/orange death beam connecting a Sith to his victim.

 

You've got it twisted... Look at "Transformers" they butchered it to make it more mainstream.