Slowtrain Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 (edited) It would not be ethical of me to simply demand the Bioware give up everything while I give up nothing. The question is, have they given up enough? For you, maybe they have - but the three installation limit is going to weigh heavily against them when it come to buying the game in the minds of some people, myself included. Just to point out that it has been stated that one can call EA tech support and have installations returned or freed up or whatever the term is. I think EA tech support blows doughnuts and would never want to call them about anything, but the option does appear to be there. Edited May 9, 2008 by CrashGirl Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Pidesco Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 And who would a European call? "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend.
Slowtrain Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 Q: What happens when I Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Deadly_Nightshade Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 If they remove the install limit then, and only then will this deal be viable. Basically, yes. I mean, I have installed and re-installed some of my older games at least thirty-fifty times - would I be able to do that with Mass Effect? Probably not. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
Krookie Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 If they remove the install limit then, and only then will this deal be viable. Basically, yes. I mean, I have installed and re-installed some of my older games at least thirty-fifty times - would I be able to do that with Mass Effect? Probably not. Ah, the joys of owning an Xbox 360.
skuld1 Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 Humm... The new plan is slightly better, but I am not sure if it is good enough. The fact that you only have three installations is the main issue that I have - I already have two PCs that I would install it on and a third will, hopefully, be built/bought within the year, that's all of the activations gone within the first year not counting re-formats and other things like that. :'( I think in one of the threads on the Bioboards it was said that re-installs on the same PC don't count against your limit.
Slowtrain Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 If they remove the install limit then, and only then will this deal be viable. Basically, yes. I mean, I have installed and re-installed some of my older games at least thirty-fifty times - would I be able to do that with Mass Effect? Probably not. You've gone through 30-50 different pcs over the last 10 years? Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Deadly_Nightshade Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 If they remove the install limit then, and only then will this deal be viable. Basically, yes. I mean, I have installed and re-installed some of my older games at least thirty-fifty times - would I be able to do that with Mass Effect? Probably not. You've gone through 30-50 different pcs over the last 10 years? I used to reformat my gaming PCs at least once every three months. Add a couple of changes of machines and harddrive crashes and it comes out about right. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
Pidesco Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 EA has European offices, however I'm guessing all installation verifications are dealt with centrally in California, which would mean that, if you were to call EA support here to get a credit back, they'd have to contact EA's central offices themselves to get them to give you your installation back. And after that, assouming all went well with the first contact, they'd still have to contact you to let you know that you have your credit back. The whole thing seems a bit daft, to me. I'm betting if someone was willing to sue EA, they'd win on the basis of that second hand sales law thingy. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend.
Slowtrain Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 EA has European offices, however I'm guessing all installation verifications are dealt with centrally in California, which would mean that, if you were to call EA support here to get a credit back, they'd have to contact EA's central offices themselves to get them to give you your installation back. And after that, assouming all went well with the first contact, they'd still have to contact you to let you know that you have your credit back. The whole thing seems a bit daft, to me. I'm betting if someone was willing to sue EA, they'd win on the basis of that second hand sales law thingy. No argument from me on its daftness. My point though is that if you ask somebody to change their behavior and they do, but only part way, you are more likely to get get additional change if you reward them for the initial change rather than simply tell them it wasn't enough and they need to do more. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
skuld1 Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 I'm betting if someone was willing to sue EA, they'd win on the basis of that second hand sales law thingy. Doubtful. I don't know exactly how Bioware/EA 's EULA is written right now, but they can modify it to restrict sales. Novell (and I believe a few other companies) have had eBay pull down auctions of their second-hand software for years and years without being sued.
Moatilliatta Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 If they remove the install limit then, and only then will this deal be viable. Basically, yes. I mean, I have installed and re-installed some of my older games at least thirty-fifty times - would I be able to do that with Mass Effect? Probably not. You've gone through 30-50 different pcs over the last 10 years? I used to reformat my gaming PCs at least once every three months. Add a couple of changes of machines and harddrive crashes and it comes out about right. You should get authentications back if you just manually uninstall the game. I too think it is ****ty, but then again, so is Bioware getting bad sales and stepping their copy protection up for Dragon Age. Nothing is sure when you vote with your wallet, but you're doing something, doesn't that count for something in your book? @Tale I agree completely with what you wrote about the new iteration of the copy protection, but surely the rpoblem I outlined above would be the worse fate. I'm certainly buying now just to show that the complains were there for a reason and that actions such as Bioware's is appreciated.
Pidesco Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 I'm betting if someone was willing to sue EA, they'd win on the basis of that second hand sales law thingy. Doubtful. I don't know exactly how Bioware/EA 's EULA is written right now, but they can modify it to restrict sales. Novell (and I believe a few other companies) have had eBay pull down auctions of their second-hand software for years and years without being sued. So the right EULA can make that legal? Edit: I have a question. How does EA attach each installation to a specific PC? "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend.
Moatilliatta Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 Securom registers hardware configuration and counts down for each different configuration. That's how I understood it at least, there is a bit of leeway as Derek French showed when he claimed to have switched out a graphics card without using up another one.
alanschu Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 Actually cracking WoW is easy. After downloading the crack or cd-key you only need to change one line in one of the .ini files. This lets you to connect private server list instead of Blizzards servers, yet WoW have almost ridiculously large userbase. Why? Because everything works better in official servers and perheps piracy isn
Slowtrain Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 I'm betting if someone was willing to sue EA, they'd win on the basis of that second hand sales law thingy. Doubtful. I don't know exactly how Bioware/EA 's EULA is written right now, but they can modify it to restrict sales. Novell (and I believe a few other companies) have had eBay pull down auctions of their second-hand software for years and years without being sued. So the right EULA can make that legal? Edit: I have a question. How does EA attach each installation to a specific PC? The drm and installer are seperate. Bio wrote the installer themselves. The drm authorizes the pc to have the game installed on it. You can uninstall and reinstall the game as many times as you like on that pc. The drm limits you to 3 authorized pcs. That is what I understand from the bio people. They keep repeating that the installer and drm are totally seperate. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Pidesco Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 But how does EA define what is one PC? Is it just the motherboard, for example? "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend.
alanschu Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 That joke was so funny I took you off ignore. YAY ME! What Bioware changed is a step in the right direction but a I'm still leery when information from my comptuer is getting sent elsewhere without my express permission and not knowing exactly what information is being sent. You shouldn't be online period then.
Moatilliatta Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 But how does EA define what is one PC? Is it just the motherboard, for example? Hardware configuration. Noone knows anything more specific than that.
alanschu Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 EA has European offices, however I'm guessing all installation verifications are dealt with centrally in California, which would mean that, if you were to call EA support here to get a credit back, they'd have to contact EA's central offices themselves to get them to give you your installation back. And after that, assouming all went well with the first contact, they'd still have to contact you to let you know that you have your credit back. The whole thing seems a bit daft, to me. I'm betting if someone was willing to sue EA, they'd win on the basis of that second hand sales law thingy. No argument from me on its daftness. My point though is that if you ask somebody to change their behavior and they do, but only part way, you are more likely to get get additional change if you reward them for the initial change rather than simply tell them it wasn't enough and they need to do more. Yay operant conditioning!
Slowtrain Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 But how does EA define what is one PC? Is it just the motherboard, for example? Hardware configuration. Noone knows anything more specific than that. exactly. Is it a hash? Is it specific system config information? Is it the mac address of your network card? Nobody has any idea. I can understand why they would want to keep that under wraps. It would kinda defeat the point of the drm. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Sand Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 You shouldn't be online period then. Why? When I open up the browser I am giving permission for my computer to go online. To share information through uploading and downloading. When I am no longer making use of the Internet with my varied programs I physically disconnect from the Internet. I shouldn't have to be connected to the Internet to play a single player game, period. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Krookie Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 You shouldn't be online period then. Why? When I open up the browser I am giving permission for my computer to go online. To share information through uploading and downloading. When I am no longer making use of the Internet with my varied programs I physically disconnect from the Internet. I shouldn't have to be connected to the Internet to play a single player game, period. Why not? Because you say so? The fact is the developer/publisher makes the rules. If you don't like it, you don't have too many more options other than not buying the game.
Sand Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 (edited) If you don't like it, you don't have too many more options other than not buying the game. And that is exactly what I am doing. I have already cancelled my pre-order and until things change I won't be getting ME for the PC, nor any future game that uses this sort of copy protection scheme. Edited May 9, 2008 by Sand Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
alanschu Posted May 9, 2008 Posted May 9, 2008 (edited) You shouldn't be online period then. Why? When I open up the browser I am giving permission for my computer to go online. To share information through uploading and downloading. When I am no longer making use of the Internet with my varied programs I physically disconnect from the Internet. I shouldn't have to be connected to the Internet to play a single player game, period. When you load up a computer game that needs you to authenticate periodically online, then you're giving it permission to go online through the uploading and downloading of information. When you are done playing the game, the internet connection is closed (it's probably actually closed before you actually load the game, but let's just assume worst case scenario here). If you're leery about the game because of "information from [your] comptuer is getting sent elsewhere without [your] express permission and not knowing exactly what information is being sent" then you should probably never go online. Edited May 9, 2008 by alanschu
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