What are the skills in this game?

[Humodour]

I'd settle for a Grope, though.

 

I read that.

[random n00b]

[quote name='H

[fastpunk]

I'm quite late to this thread, sadly... but here's a few possible skills that might be in:

 

First off, weapon related skills are probably going to be broken down into categories, like melee, small guns and big guns.

 

Hand-to-hand combat will certainly make into the game. This is a must, you can't say that Jason Bourne or James Bond are an inspiration if you don't give the player the opportunity to rain hell with fists and feet, right?

 

Also, I'd be fun to have a demolitions skill, which would help you disarm explosive devices but also set up traps for enemies - very messy traps.

 

Stealth skill will definitely be in, no explanations needed on this one. Although, I hope Obsidian makes some sort of HUD element that indicates how visible you are, like Thief's light gem.

 

Then there's probably going to be a hacking skill, which will probably work in similar fashion to Vampire Bloodlines or Knights of the Old Republic's computer skill.

 

I'm also quite sure that lockpicking will be in... but I wonder how it will work. I don't usually like mini-games but a good mini-game would probably work best here. Your skill level should determine how hard the lockpick attempt is (higher skill=lower mini-game difficulty). Anyone here played Still Life? That game had an interesting lockpicking mini-game, though a tad hard; AP could use a similar system, but maybe easier, for the sake of unlocking stuff in timely fashion.

 

Two more to go, which are probably dialog-related skills. One might be persuade and the other might be bluff (this is James Bond territory). No need for further explanations on this one.

 

Well, that about covers all of them, now I'm curious how many I got right and how exactly will they work. Can't wait for this game!

[Cycloneman]

New PC Zone UK article warrants alteration. Mentioned several things which I'm pretty sure are new. GI pages are all like 40-something, PCZUK mentions this on page two.

Mixing your own skill with increasing RPG capabilities (weapons, hacking, electronics, traps, stealth or whatever) will gradually move further and further into comic-book heroism - but that isn

[Zoma]

Sniper rifle skill?

 

Grenade/Throwing skill?

[Humodour]

I would personally prefer few, but distinct combat skills.

 

E.g. small/simple guns (pistols, crossbows, etc), small 2-handed guns (shotgun, rifle, machine-gun), big guns (plasma rifle, RPG, flamethrower, grenade launcher), melee (including grenades and unarmed).

Edited May 5, 2008 by Krezack

[Cycloneman]

I would personally prefer few, but distinct combat skills.

 

E.g. small/simple guns (pistols, crossbows, etc), small 2-handed guns (shotgun, rifle, machine-gun), big guns (plasma rifle, RPG, flamethrower, grenade launcher), melee (including grenades and unarmed).

That is a terrible set-up. Most of these are highly distinct weapons.

 

Which of these are similar enough to warrant lumping them together?

 

 

[Pop]

I'm curious as to whether they'll implement big guns, if we'll get the option to go Rambo with grenade launchers and RPGs and miniguns and flamethrowers. If anything, I'd probably expect such weapons to be used only at certain points in the game.

[Humodour]

I would personally prefer few, but distinct combat skills.

 

E.g. small/simple guns (pistols, crossbows, etc), small 2-handed guns (shotgun, rifle, machine-gun), big guns (plasma rifle, RPG, flamethrower, grenade launcher), melee (including grenades and unarmed).

That is a terrible set-up. Most of these are highly distinct weapons.

 

Which of these are similar enough to warrant lumping them together?

 

• A medium-range lightweight weapon that is useful for firing in short bursts and not terribly lethal, but is accurate enough for headshots.

• A medium-range archaic weapon that has a long reload time, and is stupid because people should not be using such horribly outdated weaponry.

• A short-range blast weapon useful for taking out nearby enemies very quickly, but with a prohibitive reload time.

• A long-range accuracy focused weapon useful for taking out enemies from a distance.

• A medium-range weapon that deals significant damage to a target over time but cannot really be useful if you hop out from behind cover, shoot, then hop back.

• A short-range weapon which will deal continuous damage to anyone hit by it, even after the user stops using it.

• A long-range weapon that deals extreme damage to anyone caught in it's blast radius, but can be dodged by simply moving while it slowly closes the distance.

• A melee-range weapon useful for dealing damage to nearby foes as well as disarming them.

• A long-range weapon which can bounce around corners and deal massive damage in an area, but is extremely difficult to use properly.

 

It's got less to do with similarity and much more to do with arbitrary groupings to ensure variety, balance and fun. Shall we simply omit any weapons that don't fall directly into categories for 'pistol', 'rifle' or 'shotgun'? Or shall we have a different category for every single weapon?

Edited May 5, 2008 by Krezack

[Cycloneman]

It's got less to do with similarity and much more to do with arbitrary groupings to ensure variety, balance and fun. Shall we simply omit any weapons that don't fall directly into categories for 'pistol', 'rifle' or 'shotgun'? Or shall we have a different category for every single weapon?

This is a skill-based system where enhancing your skill in a firearm will naturally give you special abilities to use with that firearm. It would be completely idiotic to give you an ability to shoot an RPG in a cool and unique way with the same skills as your flamethrower, since they would be governed by entirely different rules (one of them is short ranged, one of them is long, one of them is damage over time, one of them is blast radius, et cetera).

[Spider]

Yeah, but there are only ten skills in the game and not all of them are related to combat. So some sort of grouping has to be made (considering you gave 9 examples of weapons in your previous post alone).

[Cycloneman]

Yeah, but there are only ten skills in the game and not all of them are related to combat. So some sort of grouping has to be made (considering you gave 9 examples of weapons in your previous post alone).

Counterpoint: nobody needs rocket launchers or grenades or flamethrowers or crossbows in their third person shooter/RPG (see: Mass Effect), especially not their third person shooter where they can access special abilities which significantly alter the functionality of their weapons.

 

Do you still need a flamethrower when you can just mow down enemies with rapid shotgun fire? What's the need for a rocket launcher when you can take out a vehicle full of bad guys nearly instantly by shooting the driver, machine gunner, and any humans inside by rapidly picking them off with your pistol? Do you still need a grenade to roll around the corner of some camping prick, when you can just charge a critical on your assault rifle and blow the head off anyone who pops out at you? Do you still need a sniper rifle to instant-kill a target by headshotting them from a mile away when you can just headshot them by charging up a critical with your pistol? And so forth and so on.

Edited May 6, 2008 by Cycloneman

[Spider]

That'd still leave pistols, assault rifles, shotguns, meelee weaponry and unarmed. (Unless they want to throw in a sniper rifle, that'd of course require it's own separate skill. Or SMGs. But nevermind that.) I 'm thinking 5 combat skills is pushing it a bit, but that's just speculating.

[Humodour]

I can take comfort in the knowledge that few if any RPGs to date have really bothered with Cycloneman's approach, likely due mostly to the reasons I explained above.

 

Heck I recall a few Fallout devs once discussing how they should have merged throwing and melee to make the two skills a contender for a ranged skill (as throwing on its own was all but useless).

 

Give me the Fallout/SS2/DX system of weapon groupings any day.

 

And I lol'd even harder at Cycloneman's comment about crossbows being primitive and useless. I know many people who use and own crossbows these days (for sport, hunting, and show), not to mention the various designs from fast-reload, mini-crossbows, bowguns, multi-shot, scoped, long-range, explosive bolts, tranq bolts, cyanide bolts... They are as illegal as handguns over here because they are just as deadly (which I presume you are aware since these days nobody wears plate armour). A crossbow makes for an effective early-game weapon for the small arms weapon skill, but also maintains use later as a sniper weapon, a stealth weapon, and a deadly back-up where faster weapons may fail. Indian special forces use crossbows with cyanide-tipped bolts since they are quieter than silenced handguns.

Edited May 8, 2008 by Krezack

[Cycloneman]

I can take comfort in the knowledge that few if any RPGs to date have really bothered with Cycloneman's approach, likely due mostly to the reasons I explained above.

It's not "my approach," it's my interpretation of the evidence (see my various posts with extensive quoting from the GI article). If you would like to counter my evidence or interpretation thereof, go right ahead.

 

Heck I recall a few Fallout devs once discussing how they should have merged throwing and melee to make the two skills a contender for a ranged skill (as throwing on its own was all but useless).

Your point being? A throwing skill encompasses a handful of possibilities whereas the various other weapons skills encompass a much wider variety. Obviously there's going to be a balance problem with such a large versatility disparity. Edited May 8, 2008 by Cycloneman

[Humodour]

I can take comfort in the knowledge that few if any RPGs to date have really bothered with Cycloneman's approach, likely due mostly to the reasons I explained above.

It's not "my approach," it's my interpretation of the evidence (see my various posts with extensive quoting from the GI article). If you would like to counter my evidence or interpretation thereof, go right ahead.

 

'Evidence' hey? Well if you don't mind I'll wait till we have something more tangible than speculation before I lament the distribution of weapons.

[Cycloneman]

I can take comfort in the knowledge that few if any RPGs to date have really bothered with Cycloneman's approach, likely due mostly to the reasons I explained above.

It's not "my approach," it's my interpretation of the evidence (see my various posts with extensive quoting from the GI article). If you would like to counter my evidence or interpretation thereof, go right ahead.

 

'Evidence' hey? Well if you don't mind I'll wait till we have something more tangible than speculation before I lament the distribution of weapons.

A preview from people who've actually had a chance to talk to developers and see the game in action is just baseless speculation? All right then, whatever.

[Humodour]

I can take comfort in the knowledge that few if any RPGs to date have really bothered with Cycloneman's approach, likely due mostly to the reasons I explained above.

It's not "my approach," it's my interpretation of the evidence (see my various posts with extensive quoting from the GI article). If you would like to counter my evidence or interpretation thereof, go right ahead.

 

'Evidence' hey? Well if you don't mind I'll wait till we have something more tangible than speculation before I lament the distribution of weapons.

A preview from people who've actually had a chance to talk to developers and see the game in action is just baseless speculation? All right then, whatever.

 

Maybe. But speculation from a person who interpreted the words of a preview written by a person who glimpsed a portion of the game? Well...

[Cycloneman]

Maybe. But speculation from a person who interpreted the words of a preview written by a person who glimpsed a portion of the game? Well...

What, so when the GI article says "individual weapons specialization" (43) I'm interpreting that to mean specialization in individual weapons?

 

Am I misinterpreting the following?

"But what if he has an ability to unerringly pop out from cover and take down six assailants? If you place enough points in pistols, he will. That particular ability, called Chain Shot, allows Michael to enter a state of heightened awareness to quickly take stock of his surroundings as events around him slow to a crawl. In this mode, you can mark the positions of nearby hostiles, and when Michael returns to reality, he jumps out and fires a precise and lethal shot at each target."

 

Does this not refer to a specific character ability gained in a specific way involving a specific skill? Sounds to me like the author of the article is pretty aware of what Chain Shot is.

[Zoma]

Do we count achievements as one of the 1337 sk1llz?

[Cycloneman]

Do we count achievements as one of the 1337 sk1llz?

What, you mean like X-Box 360 achievements?

[Zoma]

Duh.

 

Isn't it all about achievements in the end for console games? >.> <.<

[Cycloneman]

Duh.

 

Isn't it all about achievements in the end for console games? >.> <.<

Then I don't think achievements is one of the 1337 skills.

 

Also, not all consoles have achievements.

[Humodour]

Maybe. But speculation from a person who interpreted the words of a preview written by a person who glimpsed a portion of the game? Well...

What, so when the GI article says "individual weapons specialization" (43) I'm interpreting that to mean specialization in individual weapons?

 

Am I misinterpreting the following?

"But what if he has an ability to unerringly pop out from cover and take down six assailants? If you place enough points in pistols, he will. That particular ability, called Chain Shot, allows Michael to enter a state of heightened awareness to quickly take stock of his surroundings as events around him slow to a crawl. In this mode, you can mark the positions of nearby hostiles, and when Michael returns to reality, he jumps out and fires a precise and lethal shot at each target."

 

Does this not refer to a specific character ability gained in a specific way involving a specific skill? Sounds to me like the author of the article is pretty aware of what Chain Shot is.

 

Again, it also sounds to me like somewhere down the line 'pistols' is being used as a catch-all term. Again, forgive me if I continue to adopt a wait-and-see policy.

[flem]

Syriana? Conspiratorial far-left politics? Ugh.

 

Am I right in thinking the conversation system described is something like Mass Effect's?