Xard Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 All politicians lie, Hilde. Its how the game is played. Indeed they do, but then again I admit I am sensitive when it comes to the magnitude and scale of the lie in question. Colin Powell didn't get all the info and all he would've deserved. This has come up again and again in all sorts of docs. Don't be too harsh on the man. Of course, as USA is clearly antichrist itself that was stupid plea wasn't it... How can it be a no ob build. It has PROVEN effective. I dare you to show your builds and I will tear you apart in an arugment about how these builds will won them. - OverPowered Godzilla (OPG)
Sand Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 True, one can only act on the information he is given and Bushie and his cronies likes to manipulate information. One of the reasons why I would be very happy if we just up and left Iraq. We invaded that country on false pretenses, therefore we should immediately leave. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Laozi Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 (edited) Well what is Powell suppose to do, go infront of the UN and provide every other country in the world a detailed outline of US intelligence gathering capabilities? And the whole false pretenses thing is completely inane. If you want to make arguments like that, then on the other hand you could say that the US put Saddam Hussein in power under "false pretenses" and that we just went back in there to finally correct our mistake. Edited May 11, 2008 by Laozi People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
Sand Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 Of course not. That would undermine US security. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Musopticon? Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 (edited) True, one can only act on the information he is given and Bushie and his cronies likes to manipulate information. One of the reasons why I would be very happy if we just up and left Iraq. We invaded that country on false pretenses, therefore we should immediately leave. It's unfortunate that the situation is not that simple anymore. The support that USA is giving to Iraqis is practically a life support system for the area. US troops are pretty much the only ones with any kind of medical capacities in the area, they frequently clear the city districts of mines(read up on Mosul if you don't believe me), they patrol parts of the countryside against robber barons and constantly interfere on the warring factions in the area(not that it's always by choice). Warlords, religious sects and pure human brutality would tear the are to shreds were the US presence just suddenly leave. I know I don't agree on the reasons they initially went to Iraq(or Afghanistan, or anywhere during the last couple of decades), but they are essential for the survival of the region right now. At least until UN can and is allowed to set up a permanent support area for the civilians. Edited May 11, 2008 by Musopticon? kirottu said: I was raised by polar bears. I had to fight against blood thirsty wolves and rabid penguins to get my food. Those who were too weak to survive were sent to Sweden. It has made me the man I am today. A man who craves furry hentai. So let us go and embrace the rustling smells of unseen worlds
Sand Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 Iraqis need to take care of themselves. If they can't see pass their own petty differences then that is their problem, not ours. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Laozi Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 (edited) So what, might is right as long as you can waddle back and forth from work and the grocery store unmolested? All that needs to happen for you is your dad managing to pork your mom in a safe place and the world's concerns aren't yours anymore? Edited May 11, 2008 by Laozi People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
Laozi Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 Oh and just so, do you have any idea how long it was before the US could stand on its own two feet and protect its own borders after separating from Britain? People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
Sand Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 Hey, I am all for helping people but it comes to a point in which a person needs to show that they can take care of themselves. There is a time when the training wheels have to come off. We already have been in Iraq for years, spent billions and billions of dollars in that country, along expending a great deal of other resources and lost lives. Enough is enough. We gave Iraqi people the chance to form a nation without Saddam's tyrrany. They failed. Why should the US continue to pay the cost of their failure? Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Sand Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 Oh and just so, do you have any idea how long it was before the US could stand on its own two feet and protect its own borders after separating from Britain? That was over 2 centuries ago, therefore irrelevant. Also, Iraq was never a US colony. Nice try, but no cigar. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Laozi Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 (edited) its still shows the process of nation building is slow and difficult, even when you're relatively isolated and not surrounded by blood thirsty sharks. I'm curious as to what you're basing your timetable on. You're simply tired of hearing about Iraq in the news or is there some model you can point to? Edited May 11, 2008 by Laozi People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
Sand Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 (edited) We are occupiers, invaders of Iraq. Nothing more. It isn't our responsibility to build nations. The only people that can build Iraq into a nation are the Iraqis. No one else. We can help them, but if they refuse to do so, if they refuse to look past their differences then we cannot force them into a single cohesive nation. It is a act of futility to even try. The US invasion gave the Iraqis the opportunity to forge a new future, to build a new nation for themselves. They failed. No matter how much money we pour into that country or how many troops we waste nothing is going to change unless the Iraqis take charge and stop fighting amongst themselves. It is a money pit, a waste of resources. We given Iraq more than a adequate chance for them to forge a nation without tyranny. The Iraqis chose to fight each other. They chose to squander the opportunity the US gave them. Are we to reward such behavior? No, that would be stupid. There is no timetable. We invaded on false pretenses, the main reason why we should leave immediately, and given how much time and money we have already spent if Iraq can't gett their act together by now they never will. Edited May 11, 2008 by Sand Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
Laozi Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 It is our responsibility to build back up what we destroyed. Keep in mind that the "everyday" Iraqi isn't rolling around with his AK squandering this great opportunity, they're taking cover when the fighting starts, so the idea of "rewarding" them or not could be construed as a little offensive. If the case was such, then I don't really believe there would be a general in the military who would be for staying in Iraq. People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
Sand Posted May 11, 2008 Posted May 11, 2008 It is our responsibility to build back up what we destroyed. Keep in mind that the "everyday" Iraqi isn't rolling around with his AK squandering this great opportunity, they're taking cover when the fighting starts, so the idea of "rewarding" them or not could be construed as a little offensive. If the case was such, then I don't really believe there would be a general in the military who would be for staying in Iraq. The bulk of Sunni insurgents and the Shiite militias are Iraqis. Instead of working together to make a better country they are fighting and killing themselves, their fellow Iraqis who have not picked up arms, and us. We cannot force a lasting peace on those who wish to kill. It is futile to do so. The responsibility is theirs, not ours. Its their country, not ours. Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer. @\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?" Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy." Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"
walkerguy Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (edited) Primaries and Caucuses Results from the CNN 2008 Election Center *** Tomorrow is the West Virginia primary *** Democrats Edited May 12, 2008 by walkerguy Twitter | @Insevin
Laozi Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 It is our responsibility to build back up what we destroyed. Keep in mind that the "everyday" Iraqi isn't rolling around with his AK squandering this great opportunity, they're taking cover when the fighting starts, so the idea of "rewarding" them or not could be construed as a little offensive. If the case was such, then I don't really believe there would be a general in the military who would be for staying in Iraq. The bulk of Sunni insurgents and the Shiite militias are Iraqis. Instead of working together to make a better country they are fighting and killing themselves, their fellow Iraqis who have not picked up arms, and us. We cannot force a lasting peace on those who wish to kill. It is futile to do so. The responsibility is theirs, not ours. Its their country, not ours. So you're saying you think its all empty heroics and I'm saying its a chance to rail against pointless death. Low comedy wins? People laugh when I say that I think a jellyfish is one of the most beautiful things in the world. What they don't understand is, I mean a jellyfish with long, blond hair.
Deadly_Nightshade Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 Oh and just so, do you have any idea how long it was before the US could stand on its own two feet and protect its own borders after separating from Britain? Let me see, I believe that the United States fought the British to a draw, although it was a victory considering the outcome in regards to foreign relations, in 1812 - and the entire point of the Monroe Doctrine was to separate North America from Europe. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
Deadly_Nightshade Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 (sad face) You have yet to tell us why you dislike Obama. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
Morgoth Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 Without reading this thread I just wanted to say that I hope Obama wins, because he seems to make a halfway reasonable impression on me. McCain though is the devil, and Hillary is just hilarious! Rain makes everything better.
walkerguy Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 I consider Mrs. Clinton's abilities and experience to be greater than Mr. Obama's, and her being a better choice. Why do you dislike Hillary, are you sexist? For whats its worth (I mean its not like theres oodles of candidates, but) Obama would be my #2 choice. Twitter | @Insevin
walkerguy Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 Without reading this thread I just wanted to say that I hope Obama wins, because he seems to make a halfway reasonable impression on me. McCain though is the devil, and Hillary is just hilarious! When in the hell does Hillary ever make such facial expressions!? The mere fact that someone managed to capture her making such face should leave me completely disturbed and in favor of Obama, but for some reason it doesn't. Also: McCain is quite intelligent but with the things he says, he sounds quite like Mr. Bush now. At least he's more 'mature' than either democrat. Twitter | @Insevin
Deadly_Nightshade Posted May 12, 2008 Posted May 12, 2008 Mrs. Clinton's abilities... What abilities are we talking about - the sinking to the lowest levels in an attempt to wrest power for herself, the massive polarization? Why do you dislike Hillary, are you sexist? I do not trust her, nor do I like her. Now this has nothing to do with her sex, it has everything to do with her being who she is. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot
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