I have finished Mask of the Betrayer and am playing the Witcher. I like the content of the both but I guess I am spoiled by some features of Oblivion although I found the content is much less engaging and lost my interest in none of its expansions. Couldn't we have the better of the both worlds? As most of us admit, Obsidian has some knowhow in making interesting content. So, how about requesting some features which make their games respect our time and more accessible to the people outside of conventional RPGamers?

 

Quest/Map system

 

Oblivion integrated the quest system and the map. The good thing about this integrity is that people who are interested in the story can follow the quests by simply clicking on the marks on the maps while people who like to find things by exploring the maps found it rather patronizing. The Witcher offered a compromise but, personally, I missed the quest-tracking system of Oblivion. Even more, I 'd like to have an option of being able to directly jumping to related NPCs rather than "traveling", means, controlling the protagonist point A to point B and searching NPCs following the compass. This is ridiculous especially in safe-areas and sometimes or more often, breaks the tension. If the players like to play the game with fast pace like a non-stop movie, I think they should be able to do so since it's their own time. If a player like exploration in slow pace, he should be able to do so, too.

 

Compared with Oblivion, what the Witcher did better on this account is that it offered detailed and reasonably sorted information on the world ranging from characters, bestialities, ingredients and political powers. Even better, the information changed depending how the players have played the game. I have just finished some detective story like plot in the chapter II and have found the system is not patronizing compared with Oblivion. If the players notice something is missing in the quest logs, they can reach their own conclusions based on their common sense. Unlike the MotB, the players don't need to get in NPC dialog loop only to check some background of NPCs, too. O f course, this can be introduced as a device for not overwhelming the players by a flood of information.

 

Inventory

 

This is a traditional problem of CRPG. Unlike PnP RPG, in CRPG, there is no game masters who can find which is the best time to build up the tension. In CRPG, you may find you need to go back to "safe" place, means, controlling the protagonist point A to point B (I am very aware of my repeating the same phrase, which is much less easier than actually doing this) to unload "junks" you have gathered even when the situation requires some urgency. Even Oblivion showed some respect to realism and didn't omit the weight management. However, does it worth? In MotB, thanks to bug of holding and other "magical" containers, I could get rid of some of the inconvenience but, why my eyes almost instinctively search for these containers when I am browsing the shops? Even with those inventions, I needed to open every single container to find a lost item playing inventory tetris, which is not a beloved mini-game. To some people, this may sound contradict to my comments on immersions but I think immersion is not produced from routines. Since routine dulls our senses rather than sharpens them. This is why I think some times minor details should be avoided. Anyone who played as a game master knows this.

 

Computers cannot check if the players are bored or not, so, the designers should let the players choose their own pace at times. Of course, in some cases, the pace should be controlled by the designers but I think one of the things Oblivion did good is letting the players choose their own paces. Unfortunately, Oblivion didn't have deep enough content. Now I am almost convinced that the designers don't need to remove some content in case they be overwhelmed as long as they allow the players to choose their own pace in the progress of exploring the content, no matter they are game-play, story, NPCs and the world.

I have finished Mask of the Betrayer and am playing the Witcher. I like the content of the both but I guess I am spoiled by some features of Oblivion although I found the content is much less engaging and lost my interest in none of its expansions.

 

 

Hello, is there anybody in there?

Edited December 31, 200718 yr by Xard

I have finished Mask of the Betrayer and am playing the Witcher. I like the content of the both but I guess I am spoiled by some features of Oblivion although I found the content is much less engaging and lost my interest in none of its expansions.

 

 

Hello, is there anybody in there?

 

A good line from a good Pink Floyd song (Comfortably Numb).

 

Most games RPGs do let players choose their own pace: PS:T, BG1&2, FO1&2, Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Bloodlines. Or am I confusing "variable pace" with non-linearity?

I have finished Mask of the Betrayer and am playing the Witcher. I like the content of the both but I guess I am spoiled by some features of Oblivion although I found the content is much less engaging and lost my interest in none of its expansions.

 

 

Hello, is there anybody in there?

 

A good line from a good Pink Floyd song (Comfortably Numb).

 

Most games RPGs do let players choose their own pace: PS:T, BG1&2, FO1&2, Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Bloodlines. Or am I confusing "variable pace" with non-linearity?

 

Best song of all time

 

But that really was my first reaction after that

 

Also, what Krezack said

I have finished Mask of the Betrayer and am playing the Witcher. I like the content of the both but I guess I am spoiled by some features of Oblivion although I found the content is much less engaging and lost my interest in none of its expansions.

 

 

Hello, is there anybody in there?

Humph? Is that the structure issue again?

 

I meant I am more happy with the content of both MotB and the Witcher rather than that of Oblivion. However, I think some features of Oblivion can make them more accessible.

 

PS Yes, the song came across to my mind immediately after I read the line.

I have finished Mask of the Betrayer and am playing the Witcher. I like the content of the both but I guess I am spoiled by some features of Oblivion although I found the content is much less engaging and lost my interest in none of its expansions.

 

 

Hello, is there anybody in there?

 

A good line from a good Pink Floyd song (Comfortably Numb).

 

Most games RPGs do let players choose their own pace: PS:T, BG1&2, FO1&2, Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Bloodlines. Or am I confusing "variable pace" with non-linearity?

Most likely since the conventional RPG factors tend to consume much more time compared with console titles. Oblivion tackled with this issue with some hits and misses.

Sorry Wombat, it might be the flu kicking me in the head but I can't quite follow your argument on 'Inventory' section. Are you simply saying that playing boring inventory tetris is not conducive to good flow and pace?

 

As for the quest/map system section, I understood it as saying, while some found Oblivion's super-helpful map markers patronising, you are suggesting that if some people want to look around and explore they should be able to, and if some people simply want to get to the next Quest NPC as fast as they can, they should be able to, as well.

 

The 'Black Isle/Bioware' tradition CRPGs have been trying to make some compromises in recent games I feel. Especially in KOTOR2 and games around/after that time, you see instances where you are, say, given a quest to rescue someone's wife; you go far away and find the wife; then automatically, you are taken back to the husband where you get to the reward. Whereas in, say, BG1, you would have had to walk back all the way to the husband yourself. Coupled with this, I think designers could pay a little more attention to where they put their characters; as far as realism and immersion allows, why put two NPCs 300 miles away from each other if the player has to talk to them in sequence? If one NPC gives out 10 quests, why is he at the end of a long and winding corridor?

 

In the context of Aliens, this won't be too big a deal I think (I can't see it having 80 sidequests, do you?), but a map marker really would be horrible for an Aliens game. Because the focus is, here, on the senses of isolation, or being lost/surrounded, you wouldn't really want to be staring at a map while you play. Equally, I suppose, you wouldn't want an Aliens game to involve lots of walking back to Quest NPCs stepping over the enemies you've killed.

Equally, I suppose, you wouldn't want an Aliens game to involve lots of walking back to Quest NPCs stepping over the enemies you've killed.

 

I think its often that the developers miss the opportunity to make the journey back more interesting.

 

By putting some obstacles or twists on the way back or even compound it by giving the player a time limit to get back, advising you to engage as few enemies as possible. it might make the journey back more interesting More hardcore, make it you have to return on the way back undetected or you fail/lesser reward for that particular quest.

 

Its just an example I have in my mind and thoughts that its always a wasted opportunity by making a quest completion a tedious affair.

By putting some obstacles or twists on the way back or even compound it by giving the player a time limit to get back, advising you to engage as few enemies as possible. it might make the journey back more interesting More hardcore, make it you have to return on the way back undetected or you fail/lesser reward for that particular quest.

 

Uhg. I often hate these two plot devices. They too often force the player into an uncomfortable situation. See, stealth is nice... as long as you get to CHOOSE when to do it, if at all. Sure, the game can hint that it's easier with stealth, but it shouldn't force it on you. And time constraints are very tricky to balance and pull off. They CAN increase suspense and create a palpable atmosphere of doubt and worry... but they can just as easily piss the player off and detract from every other aspect of the game because the player is worried about making some arbitrary time-limit.

 

Also on the topic of alternatives: Deus Ex made stealth available (with subtle hints now and then) on the UNATCO island and it WAS a viable alternative. But many games offer alternatives to the obvious/main route, then go on to openly advocate and promote the alternative. That's just dull for two reasons: often they over-balance it so both options are of equal difficulty, and bluntly telling the player which option is better takes all the fun out of figuring it out yourself. Classic example: fighting the slavers in the dry-docked ship in BG2 - the sewers alternative which the game promoted was actually harder and less fun. Actually BG2 had a real knack for that - both overbalancing, and lack of subtlety when it came to in-game options.

Sorry Wombat, it might be the flu kicking me in the head but I can't quite follow your argument on 'Inventory' section. Are you simply saying that playing boring inventory tetris is not conducive to good flow and pace?

Yes. I wonder if the realism is worth the annoyance, which breaks the flow of story development. However, in S.T.A.L.K.E.R.'s case, the weight system works well for the feel of survival even if it indeed felt annoying and a waste of time, at times.

 

As for the quest/map system section, I understood it as saying, while some found Oblivion's super-helpful map markers patronising, you are suggesting that if some people want to look around and explore they should be able to, and if some people simply want to get to the next Quest NPC as fast as they can, they should be able to, as well.

Yes, more like movies. Some people simply like to enjoy story while some others may prefer exploration. I think the players should be able to play the game in a way they like. I think what lacked in Oblivion interface was simply an option of turning off and on the compass. I guess there is a mod, though.

 

The 'Black Isle/Bioware' tradition CRPGs have been trying to make some compromises in recent games I feel. Especially in KOTOR2 and games around/after that time, you see instances where you are, say, given a quest to rescue someone's wife; you go far away and find the wife; then automatically, you are taken back to the husband where you get to the reward. Whereas in, say, BG1, you would have had to walk back all the way to the husband yourself. Coupled with this, I think designers could pay a little more attention to where they put their characters; as far as realism and immersion allows, why put two NPCs 300 miles away from each other if the player has to talk to them in sequence? If one NPC gives out 10 quests, why is he at the end of a long and winding corridor?

 

In the context of Aliens, this won't be too big a deal I think (I can't see it having 80 sidequests, do you?), but a map marker really would be horrible for an Aliens game. Because the focus is, here, on the senses of isolation, or being lost/surrounded, you wouldn't really want to be staring at a map while you play. Equally, I suppose, you wouldn't want an Aliens game to involve lots of walking back to Quest NPCs stepping over the enemies you've killed.

Well, I found this convincing. The survival feel would be an important factor although I have an impression that the game is more action-packed judging from the comments of J.E. Sawyer. As you say, the designers may be able to deal with the issue simply by dealing with careful design. Maybe, a communication device can be enough to tell how a quest (mission?) turned out. Probably it's me who would like to see some assurance that annoyances shouldn't get in story-telling.

 

As I have already written, currently I am playing the Witcher, where the protagonist should go back and force among NPCs, which breaks narrative flows, IMO. At the moment, I like the content but I need to assign my time more than I want to only to do some routine works. MotB and the Witcher are only CRPG I played/began to play this year, so, the comment is rather influenced by that. That said, I like the comprehensive quest interface in the Witcher and I'd like to see some of these devices in the future RPG titles.

 

There are many kinds of entertainments available, so competition is tight. If Obsidian loses potential customers simply because the interface and/or some implementation, I think that would be a shame.

 

Equally, I suppose, you wouldn't want an Aliens game to involve lots of walking back to Quest NPCs stepping over the enemies you've killed.

 

I think its often that the developers miss the opportunity to make the journey back more interesting.

 

By putting some obstacles or twists on the way back or even compound it by giving the player a time limit to get back, advising you to engage as few enemies as possible. it might make the journey back more interesting More hardcore, make it you have to return on the way back undetected or you fail/lesser reward for that particular quest.

 

Its just an example I have in my mind and thoughts that its always a wasted opportunity by making a quest completion a tedious affair.

The world and plot change depending on the choices of the players are one of the key factors of RPG but I have my doubts on rewards/penalty which depend on how well they played. For, if players are not good at a certain game play, I think there is no choice for them.

Edited December 31, 200718 yr by Wombat

I want to be able to place mutliple destination markers on my map.

I want to be able to place mutliple destination markers on my map.

different color markers