Strange Issue

[G3n0c1de]

First off, I am new to these forums, and do not know if this issue had already been posted. I am sorry if it has been but I do not know where else to turn.

 

My problem works mostly like this: Some of my party members are negatively affected by my alignment. It is a strange mathematical model I do not have the patience to sort out. But their alignment has it so that when my alignment is at halfway or below, they are fully light side, and the more light side points I get past the half way point, the more their alignment goes down. They would be in the middle if my alignment was at halfway between the middle and full light side (think 75% if the scale), and me being fully light side will make them fully dark side. Cheats will not work on them, I can only lower their alignment and bring it back up again, it can't go past the point dictated by my alignment. I only have Atton, Bao-Dur, Visas, T3-M4, Kreia, and the Handmaiden at this point, and strangely, only Atton, Bao-Dur, and T3-M4 have this problem. Stranger still, this affects every single party member while I am on the Ebon Hawk, but it does not affect Visas, Kreia, and the Handmaiden outside the Ebon Hawk. They return to the alignment they had previously.

 

UPDATE: Well, now this really sucks. I just helped a guy on Nar Shadaa with the Handmaiden and Visas, I gained some light side points, and now they have the problem too! I did reload the game, and I played without getting light side points for awhile, but then I leveled up which gave them the problem.

Edited October 9, 2007 by G3n0c1de

[refuse]

I don't think that's a game bug or anything, that's how the influence system works in the game... Every NPC is different, some will be affected more than others. To influence their alignment you have to gain (or lose) influence, this is done through dialog and quests. You can artificially edit the influence you have on others with the game save editor (KSE).

[Rosbjerg]

It's sound like you are at minimum influence with everyone - because that's exactly what happens.

[G3n0c1de]

Then explain why I can't simply cheat their alignments to full light side? It is stuck at a cap or something. I have completed the game before, that was awhile back, but I don't remember the influence system being this aggressive so that their alignments are changed in real time in relation to my alignment. I also seem to remember cheating my alignments to full light side for everyone. Then again this was a long time ago probably with a version of the game that is different from the modern one, as the game had just came out, and tweaks may have been made, but if this is a normal function of the game, can anyone confirm this?

[G3n0c1de]

It isn't influence. I have enough influence with the Handmaiden at this point to have convinced her to become a Jedi, but she still is Dark is I am Light. I have also noticed the capped values do not change with influence changes.

[ghosta]

If you have influence below 50 the party member will gain alinment points opposite you but, above 50 allinment points will be the same.

 

If you have dark side corroption or the Jedi master eqivlant, your party member alinment is pushed farther to the extremes.

[G3n0c1de]

Thanks, but thats not the problem. At this point, I have very high influences with many of my party members, and no influence gain is affecting their alignments. If I am at full light, they will always be at full dark. I am even a Jedi Master, and have the Light Side Enlightenment feat, the one that shifts all my party members towards the light. Nothing happened. It is the same problem as in the beginning of my game. To let me reiterate Influence is NOT the problem.

[mkg]

One time that I used cheats I had that happen. I just said screw it and Started over (it was like my fourth time through the game). You might want to go back to an earlier save if you are close to the end of the game.

[refuse]

For some NPCs, it doesn't matter what your influence is, after certain events and dialog options have been triggered, they will always hate you. One example is

Handmaiden, if you play as DS male and "befriend" Visas, she will refuse to talk to you after a while, no matter how you may alter her influence (whether it's cheating with KSE or doing LS acts).

[G3n0c1de]

An interesting tip Refuse, thanks, I did not know that. I don't think that has happened to anyone at this point in my game though. Atton, Bao-Dur, Mira and the Handmaiden are all Jedi, and all seem to like me. I haven't been evil with their dialog trees. Kreia seems special in the fact that she is unaffected by my alignment, she is what she is. Most curious. Hmm, well this bug affects my party member's alignments, versus my own. The one system to do anything like that is the influence system. But it appears influence itself isn't the problem. I can have as much or as little influence as I want and the formula for calculating the alignments remains the same.

 

I have figured out the mathematical formula for figuring out my party member's alignments based on my own.

 

100 Full Light Side

 

50

 

0 Neutral

 

-50

 

-100 Full Dark Side

 

If one were to view the alignment scale like this, there are two formulas that dictate my alignment vs my party member's.

 

X = My Alignment Y = Party Member's Alignment

 

If X < 0 then Y = 100 (If X is greater than or equal to zero, Y will equal 100)

 

Y = -2X + 100 (Y equals negative-two times X plus 100)

 

For example: Lets say my alignment was 40.

 

Y = -2(40) + 100

Y = -80 + 100

Y = 20

 

Therefore if my alignment was 40, my party member's alignment would be 20.

[refuse]

Kreia's alignement never really changes in the game as an NPC, regardless of the influence you have on her; that was the intention of the game developers, for her to be neutral [she might shift from 55 to say 45 depending on your aligment/influence, but she will always remain firmy around the 50=neutral/gray side].

 

As far as your alignment formula goes, I believe it's different for each NPC and perhaps a bit more complex, taking more factors into consideration; some will respond to LS acts, some will respond to DS acts, some will respond to specific, more complicated events in relation to other NPCs; I don't know if setting Revan as 'good' or 'evil' at the start of the game (versus your own alignment) has anything to do with the disposition of NPCs later on in the game too. Obviously being a Jedi Master/Sith Lord would also add something to the game's alignment formula, whatever that may be. I suppose anyone into modding or a game developer could shed some light on the mechanics of it.

 

However, there is a nifty little mod out there that allows Bao Dur's droid to tell you the influence you have on your NPC party members, that might be of some use for you.

Edited October 12, 2007 by refuse

[G3n0c1de]

You are absolutely right in that the actual alignment shift formula is much more complex than what I have presented. Its just that there is no such complexity in my game. This formula I presented exactly is being used in my game over what should be happening. I do not doubt your answer, but something is not right in my game. For everyone else, probably the correct system is in use, but my game is bugged.

 

Oh, and I made a little error when I wrote out my formula to go with the numbers. The correction is for the first formula:

 

If X < 0 then Y = 100 (If X is less than or equal to zero, Y will equal 100)

Edited October 14, 2007 by G3n0c1de

[Rosbjerg]

This is a strange problem indeed and to be honest I think you would need a special patch to solve it (which have not been made). But aside from aesthetics the alignment of your allies doesn't really affect the game - they won't act evil or do anything evil, your alignment and choices are the sole cataclyst for events and cutscenes. So I would say; ignore it - even if it's annoying.

[G3n0c1de]

Well, thanks for all your help guys. I appreciate it. Thanks to some digging, I have found a mod that works around this bug. Its called Influence Bug Fix. I believe that it works by simply writing over my party member's alignments using a simple formula based on my alignment and influence versus theirs. Though, HK-47 will always be dark side, and Kreia will always be unaffected by you. The bug is in constant effect still. Whenever I level up, or get light side or dark side points, my party members go back to the bugged alignments. The mod then "refreshes" the alignments back up to where they are supposed to be. It seems to have resolved the issue.

[Rosbjerg]

maybe you could post a link to this mod? In case others experience this problem, that would be great!

[Deadly_Nightshade]

Influence Bug Fix.

 

[Rosbjerg]

One of the most important aspect of being a Moderator is having a keen sense of detail .. so obviously I knew the link was there

[DragonShadow]

This bug is also caused by modifying your Charisma attribute above 30 (since normally you can't get that high aside from cheating).

[ghosta]

This bug is also caused by modifying your Charisma attribute above 30 (since normally you can't get that high aside from cheating).

and darkside coruption/ lightside elightenment further push your party members allignment to the extremes.