Jump to content

Why is the NWN2 modding scene so.... meh?


Recommended Posts

You must love Python. :shifty:

 

Anyway, by that logic, wouldn't the only acceptable way of coding be assembly? Or hell, everything should be done in machine language! Because high level languages are for the weak. :shifty:

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You must love Python. :shifty:

 

Anyway, by that logic, wouldn't the only acceptable way of coding be assembly? Or hell, everything should be done in machine language! Because high level languages are for the weak. :shifty:

 

LOL to an extent yes that is my thinking.

 

I do think highly of the NWN2 engine despite my griefing it so harshly.

RS_Silvestri_01.jpg

 

"I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Do you know where computers would be today if we had stuck with low level languages?

 

 

 

 

 

Nowhere.

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And Pascal is at the back of the line, right there with FORTRAN and GWBasic. HAHAHAHAHA! :lol:

Murphy's Law of Computer Gaming: The listed minimum specifications written on the box by the publisher are not the minimum specifications of the game set by the developer.

 

@\NightandtheShape/@ - "Because you're a bizzare strange deranged human?"

Walsingham- "Sand - always rushing around, stirring up apathy."

Joseph Bulock - "Another headache, courtesy of Sand"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In an ideal world, game designers should never even have to consider code. A film director does not hire engineers to create a camera before shooting.

 

The future will be marked by a handful of amazingly talented teams of coders creating engines to run games, and a larger spread of studios using those engines to create games. There will still be some coding to be sure, as the teams interface with the engines, but the wholesale creation of new engines for new games as the standard is too risky, inefficient and is a prime target for some object-oriented-style cleanup.

 

If you want to code engines, then coding your own engine is certainly what you should do.

 

If you want to do anything else related to the game business, you should shelve the idea of coding your own engine and instead do what it is you want to do, which is make a game.

 

The engine is a tool, not the end goal. That doesn't diminish its importance; but no one plays an engine.

 

If you want to code render tech for a living, creating an adventure with NWN2 is certainly not the best use of your time.

 

If you want to make crpg mods, NWN2 is clearly the best choice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

In an ideal world, game designers should never even have to consider code. A film director does not hire engineers to create a camera before shooting.

 

The future will be marked by a handful of amazingly talented teams of coders creating engines to run games, and a larger spread of studios using those engines to create games. There will still be some coding to be sure, as the teams interface with the engines, but the wholesale creation of new engines for new games as the standard is too risky, inefficient and is a prime target for some object-oriented-style cleanup.

 

If you want to code engines, then coding your own engine is certainly what you should do.

 

If you want to do anything else related to the game business, you should shelve the idea of coding your own engine and instead do what it is you want to do, which is make a game.

 

The engine is a tool, not the end goal. That doesn't diminish its importance; but no one plays an engine.

 

If you want to code render tech for a living, creating an adventure with NWN2 is certainly not the best use of your time.

 

If you want to make crpg mods, NWN2 is clearly the best choice.

 

I couldn't agree more.

 

Accept I don't even think that there is much need for designers, the engines of the future will be so advanced, that they'll generate the world, and NPC's and everything else LMFAO! :lol:

RS_Silvestri_01.jpg

 

"I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Accept I don't even think that there is much need for designers, the engines of the future will be so advanced, that they'll generate the world, and NPC's and everything else LMFAO! :lol:

 

While that would make everyone's jobs a lot easier, I imagine procedurally generating "fun" would be one of the most challenging tasks that could face an artificially intelligent game engine.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just don't think very highly of modding

 

Everybody is entitled to their own opinion, and as somebody who has the technical ability of a potato, my opinion is that modders are gods in the gaming firmament. As somebody who plays mods for virtually all of their games (BG series, Medieval TW, Close Combat, NWN2, JA2) I'd like to say thanks for all the time and effort they put into them. They are grealty appreciated.

 

Cheers

MC

sonsofgygax.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Accept I don't even think that there is much need for designers, the engines of the future will be so advanced, that they'll generate the world, and NPC's and everything else LMFAO! :p

 

While that would make everyone's jobs a lot easier, I imagine procedurally generating "fun" would be one of the most challenging tasks that could face an artificially intelligent game engine.

 

I was jesting :|

RS_Silvestri_01.jpg

 

"I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Accept I don't even think that there is much need for designers, the engines of the future will be so advanced, that they'll generate the world, and NPC's and everything else LMFAO! :p

 

While that would make everyone's jobs a lot easier, I imagine procedurally generating "fun" would be one of the most challenging tasks that could face an artificially intelligent game engine.

 

I was jesting :|

 

Hey, I'm not actually kidding entirely. You want, eventually, for the game engine to be able to procedurally generate "fun". I just think it's a long ways off :p

 

For example, you want the AI algos to provide a broad coverage of difficulty, challenge, etc. but to adjust dynamically to the player, not entirely or across the board, but locally, so that the game system is optimized on a per-player basis. That's AI-driven procedural fun. It's certainly beyond my technical knowledge. But it's what you want eventually, in an ideal world.

 

But what I am saying is that you don't really want to have to re-design that over and over. You want that sort of tool to exist as a tool that's re-used by everybody telling stories with games.

 

I'm saying there's code, interface and client. The game designer is the client. The code is the engine. The interface is the floaty area in between 'em. You want to re-use the code (engine) as much as possible. You want the interface to be as intuitive as possible (NWN2 can certainly use some interface intuition improvements). You want the client to be able to do what they want with the code via the interface, without actually having to get down into the code.

Edited by MLMarkland
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Accept I don't even think that there is much need for designers, the engines of the future will be so advanced, that they'll generate the world, and NPC's and everything else LMFAO! :p

 

While that would make everyone's jobs a lot easier, I imagine procedurally generating "fun" would be one of the most challenging tasks that could face an artificially intelligent game engine.

 

I was jesting :|

 

Hey, I'm not actually kidding entirely. You want, eventually, for the game engine to be able to procedurally generate "fun". I just think it's a long ways off :p

 

For example, you want the AI algos to provide a broad coverage of difficulty, challenge, etc. but to adjust dynamically to the player, not entirely or across the board, but locally, so that the game system is optimized on a per-player basis. That's AI-driven procedural fun. It's certainly beyond my technical knowledge. But it's what you want eventually, in an ideal world.

 

But what I am saying is that you don't really want to have to re-design that over and over. You want that sort of tool to exist as a tool that's re-used by everybody telling stories with games.

 

I'm saying there's code, interface and client. The game designer is the client. The code is the engine. The interface is the floaty area in between 'em. You want to re-use the code (engine) as much as possible. You want the interface to be as intuitive as possible (NWN2 can certainly use some interface intuition improvements). You want the client to be able to do what they want with the code via the interface, without actually having to get down into the code.

 

Naturally, because engines cost $$$ to develop, you're not telling me anything I don't know.

 

Naturally, a procedural fun would be cool, but in all likelyhood I don't see it happening because it is my personal belief that games are a story telling device, and that really requires humans. So while the games difficulty may adjust, and such, I don't ever seeing good stories being procedurally generated.

RS_Silvestri_01.jpg

 

"I'm a programmer at a games company... REET GOOD!" - Me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Naturally, because engines cost $$$ to develop, you're not telling me anything I don't know.

 

Yes, and this is why the NWN2 Engine is an absolutely brilliant stroke of design, production and distribution: Because it simplifies the interface between a next gen engine and the consumer mod maker.

 

Now it's not perfectly simple, but power and simplicity are a trade-off.

 

And... it's not perfectly powerful because power and simplicity are a trade-off.

 

But.. it strikes a brilliant balance between the two poles.

 

People should embrace this technology because the alternative is that game developers will not bother to strike a balance, they will either not release toolsets or release toolsets that are purely functional with no attention given to the end-user interface.

 

This is the way of the future... if you want it to be... a diffuse spread of creative control.

 

The alternative is less dynamic and interesting.

 

Either way could be profitable, but it is up to the consumer to decide.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because it simplifies the interface between a next gen engine and the consumer mod maker.

facepalm.jpg

 

NWN2 was not on consoles.

Edited by Tale
"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because it simplifies the interface between a next gen engine and the consumer mod maker.

facepalm.jpg

 

NWN2 was not on consoles.

 

Sure, but that's not the point. Next-gen is short-hand for the level of detail in the art assets. It's a malleable term. Some people probably like to use it as a term of derision for making criticisms of certain companies. But that's not really important.

 

It's short-hand for an order-of-magnitude change in the amount of detail presented on screen which is part and parcel with normal mapping tech and part and parcel with new programmable shader pipelines and part and parcel with things like real time dynamic shadow calculations.

 

Next gen might have become a buzz word, but before it was a buzz word it was a real thing, a phrase that represented a dramatic change in the way video games "look".

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because it simplifies the interface between a next gen engine and the consumer mod maker.

facepalm.jpg

 

NWN2 was not on consoles.

 

Sure, but that's not the point. Next-gen is short-hand for the level of detail in the art assets.

No, no it's not. Next-gen is short-hand for next generation, and refers to the generation of the platform. It has nothing to do with "dramatic change in the way video games "look"." It explicitly has to do with the generation of the platform it is released on. So, unless you're claiming that Neverwinter Nights 2 was released as a DX10, Vista, Xbox 360, PS3, or Wii game, which is wasn't, then you're still just throwing around a buzzword with no clue as to what it means.

Edited by Tale
"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Pascal haters just don't know about my :=

 

The hardest thing in the world when I moved over to Borland C++ was to stop using :=.

Edited by Tale
"Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Because it simplifies the interface between a next gen engine and the consumer mod maker.

facepalm.jpg

 

NWN2 was not on consoles.

 

Sure, but that's not the point. Next-gen is short-hand for the level of detail in the art assets.

No, no it's not. Next-gen is short-hand for next generation, and refers to the generation of the platform. It has nothing to do with "dramatic change in the way video games "look"." It explicitly has to do with the generation of the platform it is released on. So, unless you're claiming that Neverwinter Nights 2 was released as a DX10, Vista, Xbox 360, PS3, or Wii game, which is wasn't, then you're still just throwing around a buzzword with no clue as to what it means.

 

You can wrestle with a pig, you both get dirty but the pig likes it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And so, back to the topic...

 

I think these previews help demonstrate why NWN2 is a brilliant modding platform.

 

Phineas Ligistra Preview

 

Baron and Hellfire's Report from Obsidian

 

Maximus' Report from Obsidian

 

Kalia @ Warcry

Sights and Sounds of the Hive

 

Kalia @ Warcry

Report From Obsidian

 

And it's not all about Purgatorio either. This is a module that just came out that everyone should download and try:

 

Hugie's Moonshadows

 

Hugie is one of the folks working for Ossian Studios on whatever secret project they got going on.

 

I'm very proud of what we've accomplished so far for Purgatorio and can't wait for people to play it, but those previews barely even scratch the surface regarding how much custom content is going to be added to the community resource pool when Purgatorio gets released. 20 new custom creatures. Hundreds of custom placeables. New tilesets. Three and a half hours of music. Etc. Etc. Etc. None of that would be possible without the power and flexibility of the NWN2 game and engine.

Edited by MLMarkland
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...