United States healthcare at its finest

[Lucius]

While we may not have a socialist government at the moment, but still a social democratic welfare system nevertheless, Denmark is also doing pretty nicely I should say, we may not have the best in all fields of medical treatment, we're still not very bankrupt Taks, in fact we are for the first time in a long period completely debt free, we're even more wealthy than the Swedes (but not the Norwegians, damn oil barons the lot of 'em *shakes fist*)

Edited February 13, 2007 by Lucius

[Gorgon]

We still hang onto the notion of a 'welfare state', in fact accusing the government of abandoning the ideal is one of the most powerful weapons of the opposition atm.

[taks]

Denmark is also doing pretty nicely I should say, we may not have the best in all fields of medical treatment, we're still not very bankrupt Taks, in fact we are for the first time in a long period completely debt free, we're even more wealthy than the Swedes (but not the Norwegians, damn oil barons the lot of 'em *shakes fist*)

never said you were bankrupt, i said you will be. a country the size of the US, with your system, would get there much quicker, i might add. it's all relative, i.e. comparing a country the size of the US, with 300 million people to a country the size of denmark with a little over 5 million people, is a bit disingenuous (not to mention denmark's trade surplus vs. the US' trade deficit).

 

i'm not sure i understand why everyone thinks this is just "supposed to happen overnight" based on anything i've ever said. even the hardline communism of the soviet union (and china) lasted nearly a century (for both).

 

taks

Edited February 13, 2007 by taks

[Gorgon]

The legacy of the European welfare states can be traced to the end of WW2 where people were used to an extreme level of goverment involvement, rationing, controling all elements of industry for the war effort etc. After victory the cohesive spirit remained and people started wondering if it wasen't possible to use just a fraction of the resources devoted to war to better people's lives, and even to move to an advanced level of society.

 

Granted, it got out of hand some places with organised labour controling the economy and strangulating growth, but the mere notion that it is possible to build a better society is not a bad idea. Society should be ambitious, democratic and experimental in its organisation, just imho of course.

 

America never suffered the extreme destruction and deathtoll of mainland Europe and anti communism meant that successive progressive movements such as 'new deal' and 'the great society' never really took hold.

Edited February 13, 2007 by Gorgon

[blue]

It's not like dumping sick indiginent folks on the curb is public policy, for crying out loud. It's against the law. The jokers who did it, and any higher-ups who condoned it, will face legal charges.

True. We should be careful about using one outrageous incident to tar an entire industry. I'm not convinced, however, that legal penalties will stick even if they're pursued. We'll see.

 

Also, by way of background, it might be worth noting that L.A.'s skid row has been a dumping ground for decades -- just as similar urban gutters have become homeless transit hubs in Chicago, Tijuana and other North American cities. This problem is not new. The Hollywood Presbyterian case is simply the latest and most high profile example of a practice that has drawn increasing attention.

 

Allegations against this specific hospital have been made for years -- as they have against Kaiser Permanente, King/Drew Medical Center and L.A. Metropolitan Medical Center. In the past decade, there have been dozens of published accounts of outside police agencies dumping criminals and homeless people on downtown's skid row. It's not institutional policy, but there has been little to discourage the practice. There has existed no public oversight because it's a problem most people either ignore or don't see. When an addict, criminal or schizophrenic is abandoned at night against his will, who is he to complain? To most of America they're anonymous -- just one more piece of trash in a world-class cesspool of filth, crime & disease.

 

If nothing else these stories shine a klieg light on a darker problem -- not simply that of homeless dumping -- but the colossal urban failure affectionately known as skid row.

[metadigital]

Let's keep the ad hominem attacks away from the discussion, lest observers think that we are uncultured barbarians.

 

Please direct all energies towards an unemotional dissection of the facts, not towards emotional attacks of the proponents.

 

It just looks ugly.