LadyCrimson Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Pondering the possibility of building a pci-e system in a few months. Nothing will be ported over and while my natural inclination is to squeal like a wounded rat at high prices, money isn't an issue if spending the money actually means getting what I personally want. It would appear that Intel's Core2 thingie is the one to go for now, so I guess I'd go with that. I like Intel anyway. I have some other inquiries tho... Intel C2D draw a lot less power than the top-end AMDs, too ... so if you pay for your electricity you might want to factor that in ... Does this also equate into less heat, by chance? (Hubby and I were discussing the power usage issue this morning...between us we have maybe 8-10 computers on 24 hours a day so...). Tom's Hardware: October recommendations According to this, the Radeon X1900 XT 256mb is great bang for the lesser buck. However, if you're willing to spend bucks, Tom also says that the Geforce 7950 GX2 is better if you like to play at 1600x1200 with 6xAA. Now, given a choice, I really prefer to play games (and anything else) at the highest resolution possible. So video related questions: 1) The Radeon X1900 XTX can run OpenEXR High-Dynamic-Range lighting (HDR) and antialiasing at the same time. Tom's Hardware doesn't specifically mention the Radeon X1900 XT or Geforce 7950 GX2 having this ability. As a gamer, does this ability matter to you? 2) In terms of the resolution-size performance, if I like to do video editing/photography a lot as well as game, do you think the Geforce 7950 GX2 woud be worth the price over the cheaper Radeon X1900 XT? 3) LCD Monitors: If I want to use/play effectively in 1600, do I need to purchase a LCD monitor with a native resolution of 1600+? Most of the time I just see 1280 native on 19" monitors. Any thoughts on that? 4) LCD Monitors and 'ghosting'/pixel response time and video noise: Almost every recent review at Toms Hardware on 19 and 20" LCD monitors that I skimmed over said something to the effect that in practice, they were 'fair to terrible' in games, or video, or both. For example, this quote: "The Sony SDM-HS94 is unusable for video games. For screening DVDs it's not much better. On the other hand, the monitor's stunning colors make it the ideal partner for photography enthusiasts." Or this quote: The Q90U performs well with video games. If you're an FPS fan, the Q90U will serve you well. For "World of Warcraft," however, a monitor that's a little slower but has better color is a better choice. Overall, we noticed very little remanence in the image. But you'll absolutely have to play in native resolution, because the interpolation is very poor. For video, however, this is not the monitor to choose. A lot of video noise was visible in color masses and color shadings - an immediate consequence of poorly-controlled Overdrive. Once again, remanence wasn't very perceptible, but the overall quality when screening movies was clearly insufficient. This doesn't make me want to give up the CRT. Do you agree/disagree with Tom? “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 I want to say two things that you should take with a grain of salt, as I'm in no way an expert. 1) From a gaming perspective, I would advise you not to go for the 7950 GX2 right now. Considering that Directx10 is less than year away I'd say, right now you should get a budget graphics card right now (like the X1900XT you mentioned), and wait and see what comes out after Vista's release. I don't feel that getting a very expensive, top of the line graphics card is worth it, if it becomes obsolete six or eight months later. 2) I don't see the point of getting an LCD monitor, if you don't have any space problems. A good CRT monitor is still much more flexible in terms of resolutions, which is a great help for gaming from a long term perspective. I hope I've helped. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted October 7, 2006 Author Share Posted October 7, 2006 I think I've seen you (or someone else) mention the DX10 thing before. Is this because current pci-e cards won't work with DX10, or Vista, or what? And if that's the case, will the motherboards? I don't understand. Edit: And I keep looking at LCD's because my CRT's won't last forever, and it's getting harder and harder to find them here. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 Vista and Direct X will work with the older boards but when it comes to video gaming and Direct X 9 DX 10 will be running in emulation mode since it doesn;t actually have DX 9 bits in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted October 7, 2006 Author Share Posted October 7, 2006 But how would you be running DX9 and DX10 (even if in emulation mode) at the same time? It's always overwritten the older version before...they will be seperate new whole thing now? “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Judge Hades Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 You wouldn't. It will be DX 10 pretending to be DX 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted October 7, 2006 Author Share Posted October 7, 2006 Hrm...uh...ok. More confused than ever. So those boards/cards may not support DX10, thus DX10 will emulate 9 so you can run Vista which requires 10?...should I, then, not even build a new system yet because of this, whatever this is? “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 But how would you be running DX9 and DX10 (even if in emulation mode) at the same time? It's always overwritten the older version before...they will be seperate new whole thing now? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Not 100% what you're trying to say here, but I have an idea You won't be running DX9 and DX10 "at the same time." The way DirectX currently is, is that it has full hardware support for previous version. Full backwards compatibility. Which means that if you get DirectX 9, even though it "overwrites" the older version, you'll still have full functionality with DirectX 8, 7, 5, 3.3, etc. Doing this is nice, as it provides full hardware support, so if you play a game that uses DirectX 8, you'll still see full hardware support. With DirectX 10, they have decided to start with a clean slate with no backwards compatibility. This means that if you play a DirectX 9 game, it's going to have to do software emulation, which is typically slower (though how much depends entirely on the implementation). At first this seems to suck, because you may get significantly worse performance. However, it also reduces a lot of code bloat, which can make the DirectX 10 applications run faster than otherwise (if DirectX 9 had no backwards compatibility, it's entirely possible that DirectX 9 games would run faster that it currently is). If the performance of legacy DirectX is still good (which will depend largely on the CPUs, and probably the graphics card, since it'll be emulated), in the end this could very well be a good decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted October 7, 2006 Author Share Posted October 7, 2006 OK, backwards compatability, I think I can understand that. Most of the older games I'd want to play I wouldn't notice/care if it was slower performance or not, so DX9 emulation probably wouldn't bother me, really. Still not sure how that equates into the graphic card thing tho...older/current cards may become 'outdated' because they wont be as good at emulating older DX? I'm sorry if I'm being dense... “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 In a worst case scenario,npre-DX10 graphics cards won't run DX10 games at all. At best, the games will run, but with all DX10 features disabled. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted October 7, 2006 Author Share Posted October 7, 2006 Ok...thanks, density removed from my person. More research needed now. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraiGaijin Posted October 7, 2006 Share Posted October 7, 2006 I've been pricing a new rig for the past few months, here the decisions I've made so far: 600W PSU - lots of room to grow Intel 975X chipset - flexibility to go crossfire in the future, once ATI gets the bugs and compatibility worked out C2D E6600 - the Core 2 Duo has blown me away with reports of low power consumption-high performance-decent price ATI X1900XT - for the reasons above - great price/performance It's currently under $1500 - not top-line gear by any stretch, but every component blows my P4 3.0 GHz, NVidia 6600 rig out of the water - and should play anything I want at pretty close to maximum settings without any issues. I use a Sony 19" LCD (1280x1024 native resolution) as my primary monitor (the color is brilliant, and the ghosting is minimal, even on fast-paced, high contrast games). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted October 7, 2006 Author Share Posted October 7, 2006 Thanks, I'll add a couple of those specific things to my list to research. I'm not generally concerned with 'top of the line' either in fps speed-performance or pure expense...but I am really picky when it comes to graphics and resolution flexibility/performance/eyeball visual appeal. I do a lot more than play games and graphic capabilities has to reflect that. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ummi Posted October 8, 2006 Share Posted October 8, 2006 1) HDR is very pretty so yes it's important for me Whatever video card you buy don't get x1900XTX cause the loud cooling will drive you insane, unless you're used to lots of noise. x1950XTX is better and is good enough for most games at 1280x1024, but yes 7950GX2 is noticably more powerful at higher resolutions like 1600x1200 and upwards. 2) Does your video/photo editing involve 3D graphics? If not then you don't need to worry about graphics power there. 3) Yes you need to buy a monitor that has a native resolution of 1600x1200 if you want to play games at that resolution. Everything will look kinda small on a 19" screen at that resolution though, but you might be used to that already. 4) I'm pretty picky when it comes to monitor picture quality and i've been very impressed with my Viewsonic VP930 in games. Colors are very pretty and it has a very fast response time. I've noticed slight pixel noise on my character in WoW in some situations and EVE online galaxy map background didn't look as clean as i would have liked, but those are the only problems i've had with this monitor in games so far. So there are good gaming LCD monitors out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamuraiGaijin Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 ... Whatever video card you buy don't get x1900XTX cause the loud cooling will drive you insane, unless you're used to lots of noise. x1950XTX is better ... Current (lowest) price for the X1900XTX on newegg ... $399.99 Current price for the HIS IceQ X1900XT ... $329.99 Current (lowest) price for the 7900GTX ... $373.99 1600x1200 Benchmarks from Tom's Hardware VGA Charts: Benchmark: X1900XT - X1900XTX - 7900GTX Half Life 2: 70 - 75 - 65 fps Hard Truck: 51 - 52 - 51 fps Oblivion (Outdoors): 16 - 17 - 11 fps Oblivion (Indoors): 76 - 79 - 79 fps Prey: 50 - 53 - 51 fps Rise of Legends: 23 - 25 - 25 fps Titan Quest: 37 - 39 - 41 fps Average performance gain for X1900XTX over X1900XT = 5.6% Average performance gain for X1900XT over 7900GTX = 1.8% X1900XTX costs 21% more than the X1900XT 7900GTX costs 13% more than the X1900XT I'm sure I could do more comparison shopping and find lower prices somewhere, and this doesn't take overclocking into effect. I didn't consider the X1950XTX, 7950GT or 7950GT2 but you can check out the VGA Charts yourselves ... I don't think the price justifies the relatively small performance gain. Regarding the HIS IceQ choice, all reviews for EVERY IceQ model say that they're virtually silent, and it's worth the extra $30 for me vs. the standard HIS model ... I'm kind of on the fence as to whether the silence is worth the $70 premium over the cheapest model listed (Sapphire). Like I said, I've been comparison shopping for this rig for months - I'm pretty confident in my choices - but if you want to spend an extra few hundred dollars for bragging rights that will expire by January, go for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ummi Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 You're quite right. Most expensive cards never offer a very good price/performance ratio. If you have money to blow and want the best then why not get it though Your Oblivion benchmarks are incorrect though. x1900xtx/x1950xtx run Oblivion outdoors 1600x1200 at 22.5 fps while 7950GX2 runs it at almost 30fps average. That's the test i had in mind when i said 7950gx2 will be noticably faster at 1600x1200. With only 30 fps average even that card will stutter sometimes though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 P Whatever video card you buy don't get x1900XTX cause the loud cooling will drive you insane, unless you're used to lots of noise. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The stock cooler can be simply replaced with a quieter, more efficient and more powerful one. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I honestly don't think the stock cooler is disurbingly loud. I usually mistake it for the DVD drive spinning when I do notice it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkreku Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 I have never changed the fan on any of my video cards.. :"> MY OVERCLOCKING SKILLZ ARE WEAK! Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metadigital Posted October 9, 2006 Share Posted October 9, 2006 Changing the cooler will void the waranty, but if you are bothered by the noise then it's a small risk. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 So, from responses here and from my own research - half of which I only partially understood, haha - it would appear that if my present AGP-PC is sufficient to run newer games for a while, I should probably not/there's no pressing need to build a new PC until some DX10 cards are released. ...I wonder how much those will be, in the beginning. :ph34r: “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pidesco Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 P4 3ghz2GB system RAM GeForce 7800GS SoundBlaster Audigy2 ZS Some hard drive with a lot of GB's that's still not enough Toshiba CD/DVD-W drive Is this your current PC? Don't upgrade. It's better than mine, and I can run any game out now with maxed settings. "My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian touristI am Dan Quayle of the Romans.I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.Heja Sverige!!Everyone should cuffawkle more.The wrench is your friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I don't have a PCI Express so got a x1300 pro for $130. Both Photoshop and Oblivion run as smooth as lamb silk with it so I plan on keeping it until I have to have a new computer. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mkreku Posted October 10, 2006 Share Posted October 10, 2006 I don't have a PCI Express so got a x1300 pro for $130. Both Photoshop and Oblivion run as smooth as lamb silk with it so I plan on keeping it until I have to have a new computer. $130? This is what you should have gotten for those $130: Sapphire Radeon X1650PRO 256MB GDDR3. Swedes, go to: Spel2, for the latest game reviews in swedish! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyCrimson Posted October 10, 2006 Author Share Posted October 10, 2006 Is this your current PC? Don't upgrade. It's better than mine, and I can run any game out now with maxed settings. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, that's my current main rig. I was thinking of building the PCI-e system soon because I was feeling out of the graphic card and processor loop...not because of Vista. Most reviews are for pci-e cards, and all of that. It makes my gadget-loving heart feel sluggish and in need of a transplant.. :D I shall curb my tendencies and wait. “Things are as they are. Looking out into the universe at night, we make no comparisons between right and wrong stars, nor between well and badly arranged constellations.” – Alan Watts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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