Give and take...

[Kinokono]

Now, this might have been brought up before, but has anyone else noticed that in KotOR 1 it seemed like Revan "spread" the force to her allies, not like turning them into jedi, but making them stronger (and I dont mean by leveling), while it would appear that the exile did make her allies stronger through force bonds, so it kinda appeared that she was "recieving" the force through her allies via the force bonds she made, so she wasn't necessarily "taking" the force from her allies, but she still was dependant on the bonds she made with them. I guess one can say this is kind of like "evolution" so to speak, if the only way she can feel the force is to form bonds with people, then she became adept at creating them thus showing a "survival of the fittest" theme.

 

Once again, I am sorry if this topic has already been mentioned and I am also sorry if I am wrong in my claims...

[aerowars617]

Revan had alot of influence among his troops as he was very good with the force, whereas exile had alot of influence because because of the whole

ability to form bonds with many people, then taking or "draining" the force off them (not to Nihilus' extent!)

 

 

 

If only the Jedi Council were not affraid of the Exiles nature, and for once in the whole KotOR series they actually explained why the character levels up "with each death you grow stronger"

 

[Hekate]

Now, this might have been brought up before, but has anyone else noticed that in KotOR 1 it seemed like Revan "spread" the force to her allies, not like turning them into jedi, but making them stronger (and I dont mean by leveling), while it would appear that the exile did make her allies stronger through force bonds, so it kinda appeared that she was "recieving" the force through her allies via the force bonds she made, so she wasn't necessarily "taking" the force from her allies, but she still was dependant on the bonds she made with them.  I guess one can say this is kind of like "evolution" so to speak, if the only way she can feel the force is to form bonds with people, then she became adept at creating them thus showing a "survival of the fittest" theme. 

 

Once again, I am sorry if this topic has already been mentioned and I am also sorry if I am wrong in my claims... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

i noticed it too, at least when it is thought out in a logical sense. Revan, when coming back after being almost dead, begins at level 1 with 0 experience. By the time s/he meets up with Jolee, he is lower level than Revan eventhough he fought in the Exar Kun Wars and had had many adventures and caused a great deal of mischief. Being at that relatively low level considering his life story, then gains abilities and strength etc, quicker than he had up until that point previously in his life. Same goes for Carth. He is a decorated war hero, has seen more action than the rest of the Crew on the Endar Spire combined, and he is level 4. He can't dual-wield, has few feats, and nearly laughable skills abilities. Suddenly Revan comes along and he can do incredible things relatively quickly. So yeah, i'd definitely say Revan 'gave them Force'.

 

As far as Exile goes, i'm not sure Exile tapped into her/his companions. i had thought it was Kreia who was giving the Force connection to Exile. Not that it states that in-game or anything, i just felt that makes the most logical sense and can explain alot of plot holes to rational conclusions. This, and things along this line are discussed in this thread called "KOTOR 2 purposely making fun of Lucas's ideas?, The Force, all that junk Kreia addesses." at this link <{POST_SNAPBACK}> but it is older so it would be hard to find.

 

 

Revan had alot of influence among his troops as he was very good with the force, whereas exile had alot of influence because because of the whole

ability to form bonds with many people, then taking or "draining" the force off them (not to Nihilus' extent!)

 

 

 

If only the Jedi Council were not affraid of the Exiles nature, and for once in the whole KotOR series they actually explained why the character levels up "with each death you grow stronger"

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

You've touched on one of the things that makes the d20 and experience increase through killing system lacking. With Exile, it becomes uncertain if her/his power increase is due to game mechanics since everyone's exp increases that way, or due to the

Force leeching/siphonning

. i think in KotOR (the first) the leveling up through killing was simply a game mechanic. i don't know why the Council told Exile s/he

gains her/his strength from siphonning/leeching the Force from those s/he kills

. To me, that confused the issue, especially since

LS Exile apparently doesn't do so when fighting the Masters, not even if killing them

.

[Kinokono]

u mean, that when ur LS and u kill the masters, u dont siphon the purple force thing from them?

[Hekate]

u mean, that when ur LS and u kill the masters, u dont siphon the purple force thing from them?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

IIRC, that only happens with DS characters. i thought the LSers learn the techniques by watching and Kreia explaining in Exile's mind. Could be wrong about that though...

[Dark Wastl]

[i noticed it too, at least when it is thought out in a logical sense. Revan, when coming back after being almost dead, begins at level 1 with 0 experience. By the time s/he meets up with Jolee, he is lower level than Revan eventhough he fought in the Exar Kun Wars and had had many adventures and caused a great deal of mischief. Being at that relatively low level considering his life story, then gains abilities and strength etc, quicker than he had up until that point previously in his life. Same goes for Carth. He is a decorated war hero, has seen more action than the rest of the Crew on the Endar Spire combined, and he is level 4. He can't dual-wield, has few feats, and nearly laughable skills abilities. Suddenly Revan comes along and he can do incredible things relatively quickly. So yeah, i'd definitely say Revan 'gave them Force'.

 

As far as Exile goes, i'm not sure Exile tapped into her/his companions. i had thought it was Kreia who was giving the Force connection to Exile. Not that it states that in-game or anything, i just felt that makes the most logical sense and can explain alot of plot holes to rational conclusions.

 

I wouldn't base story-points on something that has to do with game mechanics.

Of course your crew members have weak stats, if they wouldn't, they would destroy everything in their way while making Revan look relatively powerless and not as special anymore.

That would be the same logic as stating that the Exile is more powerful than Revan because he can go past level 20, unlike Revan, which of course has everything to do with the difference in game-mechanics and doesn't say anything about the power of the two characters.

 

As for the Exile, I'm pretty sure Kreia says that you indeed "leach of" from your crew members and everyone else you come in contact with. I don't see why that shouldn't work...

[aerowars617]

u mean, that when ur LS and u kill the masters, u dont siphon the purple force thing from them?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

IIRC, that only happens with DS characters. i thought the LSers learn the techniques by watching and Kreia explaining in Exile's mind. Could be wrong about that though...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

LSers do have the purple thing that absorbs the masters "force" if they fight them, and everyone learns the fighting techniques, by either being tought them from the masters (you help them) or by fighting them (you side against them on Dantoine, Onderon. Not sure how to annoy the Nar Shadda Master; Zeik Il i think his name was?). however, if you kill 1 master, then meet the other 2 on Dantooine and keill them, you dont aborb their power, as Kriea comes in and does her thing

 

 

Edited May 24, 2006 by aerowars617

[Hekate]

I wouldn't base story-points on something that has to do with game mechanics.

Of course your crew members have weak stats, if they wouldn't, they would destroy everything in their way while making Revan look relatively powerless and not as special anymore.

That would be the same logic as stating that the Exile is more powerful than Revan because he can go past level 20, unlike Revan, which of course has everything to do with the difference in game-mechanics and doesn't say anything about the power of the two characters.

 

As for the Exile, I'm pretty sure Kreia says that you indeed "leach of" from your crew members and everyone else you come in contact with.  I don't see why that shouldn't work...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right about game mechanics and the d20 leveling system interfering with a logical progression of characters improving. So, yes, if looking at it from a game mechanics point of view, that the main character has to be the "best", "toghest", whatever, does mess up the logic behind things being that way. Frankly, i don't see why someone who first gained consciousness in the middle of a battle starting with next to no skills and experience has to automatically be close in level to the war hero and relatively quickly surpass him especially since gaining experience occurs across the board other than to maintain simplicity for the players and to make Revan seem special. Sure, Revan is a prodigy and all that, but believability comes at the expence of maitaining the superiority distinction.

 

With this blending of mechanics and story telling in mind though, my thoughts were Revan did have an effect on her/his companions. Even if things were skewed in the player character's favour for her/him to be the toughest, the devs did decide to make the war hero level 4 rather than a higher level. They could have left him at level 4 and given him some bonuses instead (ie: the war hero bonus to feat # or something such as Revan getting the 40 point boost to Force points due to Force sensitivity) but they didn't. So, to look at things in the broader scope of the game relative to Revan's companions gaining "experience" so quickly, one could argue Revan had an effect on them. i'm not saying this is the case necessarily, it just felt that way to me.

 

Guess i should clarify a bit, in the story telling sense; Carth, after being a soldier for 20 years who was active during the Mandalorian and Jedi civil Wars, and Jolee, after being a Jedi for nuerous decades (don't know his exact age, at least 70 at time of KotOR assuming he was at least 30 at time of Exar Kun Wars since he married late and he fought Nayama when she defected) both progress and gain abilitites and strengths very quickly, a matter of months, once Revan becomes a part of their lives. In that light, story telling wise, i can see how one could believe Revan affected them. But, all of that can be explained through game mechanics and keeping things simple for the game.

 

 

With regards to Exile, yes, the leeching the Force from her/his companions does work as an explanation. There are issues around it though, ie: if Exile is a wound in the Force and cut him/herself off completely from it, how then could Exile form Force bonds without being able to feel the Force? Or how could Exile leech/siphon the Force at all considering s/he has been cut off in an absolute sense from the Force? Or, considering Exile became a wound in the Force from cutting her/himself off from it, would that then mean Exile is no longer a wound in the Force if s/he can reconnect to it? When Exile speaks of her/him feeling the Force and using the Force, s/he mentions it is as if it is at a distance, and other such things. All i'm saying is there is the possibillity Exile didn't actually re-establish her/his connection to the Force at all. Not saying that is what happened, it is just an interesting theory. The link i put in for post #3 has a thread that touches on this subject if you're interested in it. There is alot to discuss concerning that issue in particular.

[Kinokono]

I see, but what I also thought was interesting about revan is how she even influenced the droids to her side.

[aerowars617]

I see, but what I also thought was interesting about revan is how she even influenced the droids to her side.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Revan *owns* the droids. the droids have to listen to him. He built HK who is loyal to his creator, and T3... hes the KotOR 1 GoTo.

[Kinokono]

Yes, but Revan was able to GIVE HK a personality of sorts, and the exile was able to by means of T3 regain connection to the force.

[aerowars617]

Yes, but Revan was able to GIVE HK a personality of sorts

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Malak allowed HK-47's most famous quote to be made. "Meatbag". I suppose Revan did have a thing for droids, considering Kriea mentioned that Exile "liked his machines? [Droids]", "just like Revan". Looks like Bao Durs got a run for his money (who needs him if Revan/Exile is good with making/fixing Droids )