Who will win the console war?

[10k fists]

Gamerankings.com keeps track of most professional reviews of most games. Try a simple search, say for the 20 top ranked games of all time.

 

Microsoft (Xbox) has 4 games among the top 20. Pretty strong showing for only one console.

Sony (Playstation, Playstation 2) has 7 games among the top 20.

Nintendo (Nintendo 64, Gamecube) has 5 games among the top 20.

The rest is made up of old Dreamcast games and PC games.

 

One might argue that since 4 of Nintendo's 5 titles are among the 6 best of all time (with only a Dreamcast game and a Playstation game breaking the dominance) the guy with the big Nintendo boner is right. But I won't go there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

He said popular opinion, not reviewers. For it to be a popular opinion, it must be widely accepted. So your gamerankings comment is rather moot.

[mkreku]

If by popular opinion, Nintendo hasn't had a "game of the generation" since the SNES.

 

GTA and Halo both trump any Nintendo console game by "popularity" - sales prove that.

He said popular opinion, not reviewers.  For it to be a popular opinion, it must be widely accepted.  So your gamerankings comment is rather moot.

Nope. For some odd reason, most games (not all) that get good reviews are also the ones that are the best selling. Your own examples (quoted above), Halo and GTA, are both in the top 20. You may not think that reviewer's opinions mirrors that of the popular opinion, but since the games we're discussing are the same no matter which opinion we choose to believe in, the argument still stands.

[Volourn]

Read K's posts again, good sir. Read it very closely. Very, very close. Then come back to us on this issue.

[metadigital]

Well, that happened because Nintendo treated developers like crap...

 

I'm guessing Sony might understand that they are the ones that make the console a success.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, it's the fans that make a console a success

 

No matter how good the system is, and no matter how good the games are.... it'll fail if no one buys it

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't get the Ninty fan-base support ... especially with their overt manoeuvres to alienate their existing customers in the headlong rush for new gamers, from the population of those who have never gamed before (as opposed to the customers of other consoles).

 

[Llyranor]

I dunno, I'm not a big fan of the 'let's use our console to push ahead a new technology of marginal benefit that won't see much utility in the next few years and use that as an excuse to make the system unaffordable for the average gamer' stunt, either.

 

"The PlayStation 3 is not a game machine. We've never once called it a game machine."

-Kutaragi

[Haitoku]

Llyranor... Your really making me not want to buy it.

 

Honestly, what kind of BS are they trying to pull... =(

[Llyranor]

Heh, no pressure. If the PS3 flops, prices will plummet or games will shift systems.

 

Of course, there's also the possibility of it flourishing and all your games ending up on a 600$ gaming mach...... entertainment machine.

[Haitoku]

Though $600 is a lot of money, it's still something that I could afford rather easily.

 

But... the thing that gets me is how hard Sony is trying to convince everyone that it isn't just another console... but it IS!

 

PS3 is a game machine and anything else is second to that. All this BS about it being able to sell without games and anything having to do with the PS philosophy... it's utter crap that they continue to (or try) shove down everyones throat.

[Nartwak]

I don't get the Ninty fan-base support ... especially with their overt manoeuvres to alienate their existing customers in the headlong rush for new gamers, from the population of those who have never gamed before (as opposed to the customers of other consoles).

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alienating how?

[alanschu]

As their fan base grew up, the impression is that their games didn't.

 

While this may or may not be actually true (I have no idea how many "non-kiddie" game the GameCube has compared to "kiddie" games), the impression that they haven't is all that matters.

[mkreku]

Read K's posts again, good sir. Read it very closely. Very, very close. Then come back to us on this issue.

Ok, you Self-Appointed-Master-Of-Reading-Comprehension, let's do exactly that. Let's go back to the original post.

 

Nintendo doesn't have the biggest library, they just tend to have the "best" games. Now one may not like said games, that's your/their opinion, hard to deny Nintendo's track record for their releases tho in terms of a quality product. One can not say the same for PlayStation or the X-box.

This is the part of "K's" original post I responded to. Now, I showed that Nintendo has 4 games in the top 6 games of all time on Gamerankings.com, despite them having a small library of games, so according to that he is partly right.

 

Now please tell me what it is I have to read again, very, very closely? Or should I tell you to give up the BS and actually try to come up with some sort of argument instead? Hey, you could even try to provide some tangible facts instead of just your own twisted opinion! That would be.. interesting. For a change.

 

You know, for someone who writes posts like a three-year old and dialogue like a six-year old, you sure like to pull the reading comprehension card. Kind of dumb.

[metadigital]

But... the thing that gets me is how hard Sony is trying to convince everyone that it isn't just another console... but it IS!

 

PS3 is a game machine and anything else is second to that.  All this BS about it being able to sell without games and anything having to do with the PS philosophy... it's utter crap that they continue to (or try) shove down everyones throat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I would contend that the consoles aren't primarily game machines in this generation: they are more the interface between the tv and the internet: streaming movies and music and whatever other entertainment into the living room.

 

Sure people (in the target demographic) will buy games to play, but the primary box-shifting impetus is the FIRST: set-top broadband management facilities (Xbox 360 running Windows Media Centre Edition versus PS3 running Linux) and SECOND: next gen storage format (blu-Ray, HD-DVD) and THIRD: games.

 

I don't get the Ninty fan-base support ... especially with their overt manoeuvres to alienate their existing customers in the headlong rush for new gamers, from the population of those who have never gamed before (as opposed to the customers of other consoles).

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Alienating how?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Gimping the game inteface to win over people who have never played a game, rather than beat up the other consoles and take their lunch money.

 

I commend it for business acumen: finding new markets, less competition, better return on investment, etc. I just don't get how (if what I understand is true) the fan base will be pleased to use a wand instead of a joypad to control four instead of fourteen controls.

 

Sure, Mario 3D was a new (and arguably) more advanced game ... but it sucked. I am not convinced that the very thing that demarcates the Wii from the competition isn't the biggest reason for fans to leave.

 

Not that I am advocating graphics whoring, or pimping consoles for the sake of it: I am quite happy to play a text adventure, for example. I guess what I am saying is that the wii looks like step backwards, not forwards, to pick up new gamers (and hope that the older ones don't notice).

 

I just think that the new controller sounds pretty lame, and that Ninty have done a Double-Plus-Microsoft marketing effort.

[kalimeeri]

Sony's pricetag is a big deterrent, IMO. I think it will be a slow-starter. Yeah, there are lots of folks who will buy it for their kids (or themselves) because it's the latest and greatest. But I don't think that's enough to gain back what they've sunk into it, and to counter the lead that XBox has because it's already on the shelves. If they're not careful, Bluetooth could even become the next Betamax.

 

Unless they come up with a 'huge' new game, folks like me are likely to stick with their trusty PS2 for a while, maybe even pick up a reconditioned XBox to play a couple of those games. If I were Sony, to get a running start I'd be looking to port over a classic like FFVII (with updated graphics) with an already-established fanbase.

[10k fists]

Nope. For some odd reason, most games (not all) that get good reviews are also the ones that are the best selling. Your own examples (quoted above), Halo and GTA, are both in the top 20. You may not think that reviewer's opinions mirrors that of the popular opinion, but since the games we're discussing are the same no matter which opinion we choose to believe in, the argument still stands.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The argument doesn't stand, because he said "game of the generation" and then by "popular opinion". Game of the generation by popular opinion would equate to booming sales, as well as continual praise by the fans (requires both - the Matrix game doesn't apply). The problem with your analysis is that you're not reading the entire post, you're attempting to pick one comment out of a complete thought.

 

Ocarina of Time was beat by Final Fantasy 7, I believe, while Halo 2, and the GTA games on the PS2 beat every gamecube game in exsistance. Isn't the highest selling gamecube game Smash Brothers Melee anyway, or has that changed in the last few months? Regardless, so while all those games are "popular", the true popular opinion for the better game of the "generation" obviously goes to the ones with more sales.

[Nartwak]

I just think that the new controller sounds pretty lame, and that Ninty have done a Double-Plus-Microsoft marketing effort.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah. I understand. I suppose that many existing customers do not share these sentiments about the controller.

 

Actually I would say that, after reading your response to Haitoku, Microsoft and Sony are going much further to alienate the gaming market; with games for their platforms being of a tertiary priority.

 

Kind of dumb.

Volourn has severe autism. It's pointless to discuss subjects with him.

Edited May 28, 2006 by Nartwak

[Cantousent]

Yeah, but Microsoft was going the "home entertainment" route a long time ago and their new "home entertainment system" is a lot cheaper.

[metadigital]

I just think that the new controller sounds pretty lame, and that Ninty have done a Double-Plus-Microsoft marketing effort.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ah. I understand. I suppose that many existing customers do not share these sentiments about the controller.

 

Actually I would say that, after reading your response to Haitoku, Microsoft and Sony are going much further to alienate the gaming market; with games for their platforms being of a tertiary priority.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's a valid criticism, but I would say that gamers aren't the primary market for consoles anymore ... it's just that Ninty haven't got any other market segment to aim at. I understand how misguided gamers in general (and their fanbase in particular) might see this as some sort of loyalty to games, but I don't see any real compassion for gamers, just a cold business decision (perhaps including goodwill in the equation).

 

Personally, I imagine that when the time comes for me to make a decision, in six or twelve months' time, gaming will not be the primary concern. :/

 

Kind of dumb.

Volourn has severe autism. It's pointless to discuss subjects with him.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Don't poke the animals.

[Nartwak]

That's a valid criticism, but I would say that gamers aren't the primary market for consoles anymore ... it's just that Ninty haven't got any other market segment to aim at. I understand how misguided gamers in general (and their fanbase in particular) might see this as some sort of loyalty to games, but I don't see any real compassion for gamers, just a cold business decision (perhaps including goodwill in the equation).

I haven't tried looking at this without rose tinted glasses, but I would say that's a fair assessment.

 

Personally, I imagine that when the time comes for me to make a decision, in six or twelve months' time, gaming will not be the primary concern. :/

Well, as my hobby is playing video games I'll admit I'm beginning to feel marginal. Edited May 28, 2006 by Nartwak

[Volourn]

"This is the part of "K's" original post I responded to. Now, I showed that Nintendo has 4 games in the top 6 games of all time on Gamerankings.com, despite them having a small library of games, so according to that he is partly right."

 

That's funny. You don't quote him at all. In fact, you were debating with us others who was disagreeing with K. If you had noticed the quotes we were using; you'd know that we were disputing K'S point that nintendo had the 'most popular game' bar none of every generation of console. No one argued about that fact they make quality games.

 

The key here is 'most popular game' bar none of every generation of console. That simply isn't true.

 

Ninentdo has popular games that lot of people like, but most popular game of every generation of console bar none?

 

Proof please.

[mkreku]

Which part of "partly right" is it that you don't understand?

[Volourn]

"Which part of "partly right" is it that you don't understand?"

 

Of course, that wasn't your initial argument. Here'a s quote just for you:

 

 

Mkrkeu wrote: "One might argue that since 4 of Nintendo's 5 titles are among the 6 best of all time (with only a Dreamcast game and a Playstation game breaking the dominance) the guy with the big Nintendo boner is right."

 

There was no 'partial right' there was there? Nor was anyone disputing Nintendo's popularity.. just that it didn't have the most popular game of every generation with absolutely no doubt.

 

Now, you are just backpedaling so now you are saying 'partially right'.

 

Make up your mind... exactly what comments were you defending K from, again?

 

P.S. The picture is coming clear. You can settle it once and for all!

[mkreku]

Ok, let's try again. Which part of "One might argue" didn't you understand?

 

Edit: By the way, love how you conveniently "forgot" the last part of that same quote..

Edited May 29, 2006 by mkreku

[Volourn]

Word games. I gotta love them.

 

I should start all my posts with ;one might argue' and claim I'm not making the argument; but 'one might argue'.

 

LOLOLOLLIPOP

Edited May 29, 2006 by Volourn

[mkreku]

One might argue that since 4 of Nintendo's 5 titles are among the 6 best of all time (with only a Dreamcast game and a Playstation game breaking the dominance) the guy with the big Nintendo boner is right. But I won't go there.

Now, see, THIS is the reason why you should have quoted the entire little piece of text.

 

Read the bold part. I wasn't making the argument that he was completely right, or I would have said so. I wasn't even interested in bringing the argument any further than that. But I overestimated some of the board members ability to think one step beyond the apparent. I always make the mistake of assuming I'm dealing with normal people on the board and not kindergarten level intelligence.

 

By the way, the original post mentioned popular opinion. He didn't specify which popular opinion though. I realized that my reference for popular opinion was that the mass of reviewers, when the normal default of the popular opinion is the masses of game players. Work habits, I guess.

[metadigital]

That's a valid criticism, but I would say that gamers aren't the primary market for consoles anymore ... it's just that Ninty haven't got any other market segment to aim at. I understand how misguided gamers in general (and their fanbase in particular) might see this as some sort of loyalty to games, but I don't see any real compassion for gamers, just a cold business decision (perhaps including goodwill in the equation).

I haven't tried looking at this without rose tinted glasses, but I would say that's a fair assessment.

 

Personally, I imagine that when the time comes for me to make a decision, in six or twelve months' time, gaming will not be the primary concern. :/

Well, as my hobby is playing video games I'll admit I'm beginning to feel marginal.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, if it's any consolation, it seems like Ninty will win the game battle ... it's just that that will be of minor significance in the console war. Probably everyone will buy one, even if it's as well as their other tv-broadband console ... let's just hope that the games are non dumbed-down to the lowest common denominator (i.e. the n00b and their new magic wand).