A question about musical tastes

[Lyric Suite]

Counterpoint stems from polyphony, in which you have 2 or 3 different melodic voices interacting with each other (the brain cannot process more then 3), thus the harmony is then created vertically rather then chordally.

 

Erm, a correction here, i actually meant to say independent melodic voices, not different.

Edited April 20, 2006 by Lyric Suite

[LoneWolf16]

indipendent

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[Lyric Suite]

^ My english always deteriorates after a while...

[alanschu]

Real quick response....there's limited proof for an against.  I challenge you to find proof that people of "inferior" intellect are incapable (as you claim) of appreciating classical music.  Or that people that like classical music are somehow more intelligent.

 

Well, of course i can't prove any of that. Maybe somebody could ask what type of music people from mensa listen to...

 

That's because you're in denial, because it challenges your perceived superiority.  It's not uncommon for fascists to be against extensive research that goes against their inherent misconceptions that they utilize to hold themselves to higher accord.  And no, I don't believe that everything is.  Which is why I suggested that it's a possibility.  Especially given the numerous parallels it holds to other elitist beliefs.

 

So, wait, let me get this straight. Not only you are accusing every single human soul that has loved and supported classical music for, say, the last 400 years to be in denial, but we are also all facists now.

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Nope, just you. And it's not because you love and support classical music (and no where did I make such a claim). It's because of your self-righteous judgement of those that you quite obviously see as inferior because they like pop. Other statements also include your very obvious elitism, placing yourself at a higher level because of your desire to understand the constructs of classical music. You have said straight up, that people who like pop bands like NSync are incapable of "truly" appreciating/understanding classical music, because they lack the intellectual capability. You are then implicitly claiming intellectual superiority over these people, because of your interest in the music.

 

Actually, contrapuntal polyphony is perfectly valid in that counterpoint does NOT refer to the same thing as polyphony. Almost, but not quite. Polyphony from the middle ages for instance is not usually referred to as contrapuntal.

 

Then I guess I got confused somewhere. Contrapuntal is the adjective form of counterpoint (in essense, you were sort of saying counterpoint polyphony, though that sounds like ass so they break it down via latin to develop Contrapuntal as the adjective). I did a quick search of the net, because I had learned that they both meant the same thing: using more than one melodic line at a time.

 

 

These sites all confirmed what I thought the words meant:

 

http://net.unl.edu/musicFeat/bach/bachforms2.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counterpoint

http://cnx.org/content/m11634/latest/

http://library.thinkquest.org/15413/glossary/glossary.htm

http://www.ucalgary.ca/applied_history/tut...edot/motet.html

http://www.empire.k12.ca.us/capistrano/Mik...ms/glossary.htm

http://classicalmusic.lifetips.com/cat/575...tory/index.html

http://www.classicalarchives.com/dict/counterpoint.html

http://www.dolmetsch.com/musictheory33.htm

 

 

Some mentioned that multiple melodies with singing is often referred to as polyphony, while instrumentally it would be counterpoint. At best, a quick skim (at midnight for me) would indicate that counterpoint is a subset of polyphony, which would still make contrapuntal polyphony wordy, as you could replace it with just counterpoint.

 

The wikipedia (a horrible source, but I feel it's fair game since you yourself used it) comments that "Counterpoint written before approximately 1600 is usually known as polyphony." Both of their defintions of Counterpoint and polyphony are the same though (musical texture with two or more independent melodies). It's possible wikipedia is wrong, but other references found lead me to the same conclusion.

 

Show me (or at least refer me) to something that indicates otherwise and I'll be happy.

Edited April 20, 2006 by alanschu

[alanschu]

Oh, as for the "fallacy" of social constructs we have and how they influence us, I'm sure that the findings of Zimbardo's famous experiement were completely bogus, and the volunteers that took part in the experiment were actually repressed psychopaths that were just given an acceptable medium for which they could channel their anger and aggression.

 

Stanley Milgram's work I'm sure was also completely bogus, as is Bandura's and Asch's.

[Atreides]

This just sounds typical of elitists not liking something that's new.

 

No, it's a typical case of average minds not able to come into terms with something that transcends their limited understanding.

Exploitable.

[Lyric Suite]

Nope, just you.

 

Not at all.

 

You just implied the complexity and deeper meaning within the classical pantheon is nothing but a social construct which i and obviously anybody who shares the same conviction was led to believe by society.

 

It's because of your self-righteous judgement of those that you quite obviously see as inferior because they like pop.  Other statements also include your very obvious elitism, placing yourself at a higher level because of your desire to understand the constructs of classical music.  You have said straight up, that people who like pop bands like NSync are incapable of "truly" appreciating/understanding classical music, because they lack the intellectual capability.  You are then implicitly claiming intellectual superiority over these people, because of your interest in the music.

 

Yes, but what does that have to do with whether classical music actually is or isn't more complex then popular music?

 

Remember, you didn't just outright call me an elitist and left it at that (which is fine, i don't care), you actually implied my belief in the inherent superiority of classical music to the likes of NSync is something i was bought into believing by some sort of elitist leading power to be, without proof nor leading argument i might add, just the implication i'm in denial.

 

If you think i shouldn't generalize about NSync fans, that's fine. But the point remains that classical music IS more complex, deeper and more demanding then a boy band will ever hope to be. To imply people of a certain intellectual predisposition would gravitate towards the latter rather then the former it's no elitist rambling, it's just logical.

 

Oh, as for the "fallacy" of social constructs we have and how they influence us, I'm sure that the findings of Zimbardo's famous experiement were completely bogus, and the volunteers that took part in the experiment were actually repressed psychopaths that were just given an acceptable medium for which they could channel their anger and aggression.

 

Stanley Milgram's work I'm sure was also completely bogus, as is Bandura's and Asch's.

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Show me the experiment in which Zimbardo, Milgram or Bandura finally proves beyond reproach that classical music isn't really more complex then a boy band, we were all just brainwashed into thinking Mozart was a genius...

Edited April 20, 2006 by Lyric Suite

[Lyric Suite]

This just sounds typical of elitists not liking something that's new.

 

No, it's a typical case of average minds not able to come into terms with something that transcends their limited understanding.

Exploitable.

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Yet, it's the truth, unless you also agree the music of Bach IS nothing but incomprehensible rubbish...

[Darth Sion:P]

Pop means popular and therfor is not a real genere... as for the question at hand i think both generats equal inteligent questions in lyrical therms... i don't think music has anything to say about how smart u are but it certanly has somthing to say about how intelligent the writher of the songs is

[Darth InSidious]

Um, question?

Music is a matter of taste, right? So how can you claim that taste is related to intelligence?

 

On the subject of metal, though, how can anyone be intelligent when there brains are being shaken apart by such ridiculously loud sounds?

[metadigital]

indipendent

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English is not Mr Suite's native language.