PS3 costs Sony $800 ?

[alanschu]

How can people be so certain about the cost of the XBOX at the end of its life?

 

$300 to make the XBOX? Unlikely. I suspect the majority of the "XBOX is losing money" on its sales was for the fixed costs of R&D.

 

Unless Intel and the rest of the companies that make the stuff is totally giving Microsoft the shaft in prices. Intel could sell the processor for the XBOX for $1 and still make a profit on it. The only thing that could be increasing the cost is that Intel doesn't have many fab units making the old cores. Making a microprocessor is ridiculously cheap.

 

Even then, upgrading all of the components in the XBOX to the components in your computer, is still chump change. The prices that we see for those components are not the prices that the big OEM companies pay.

[SSgtSniper]

I know I was supposed to have left but this struck a cord.

 

1- Portability : LANs on PC have been around since before DOOM, it's nothing new. People have been lugging around towers and monitors since way before Halo came out. If I would drop my XBox in the middle of the street, I would be just as heartbroken as if I dropped my PC. Gamers have a tangible emotional attachment to their gaming rig, console or PC. Its monetary value is secondary.

 

Put your tower through half the stress I have put my oldest xbox through, and see if it still runs. I can safely say, as I pat the cracked-case-but-still-works-unit, it won't.

 

2- Ease of use : I can play most games, including those complex RTS games you can't find on consoles, with 10 keyboard keys. How many buttons on the XBox controller? 17 counting 2 sticks. Also, comparing a first-person shooter played on console and on the PC is well... I won't say. Needless to say, NOTHING compares to aiming and shooting with a mouse while running, jumping, crouching, climbing with a keyboard. Key placement is also FULLY configurable which is rarely the case with a controller.

Compare ease with a literal transfer, same game to same game. Halo PC is a bear to get set up with anything approaching a logical keystroke setup. Halo xbox, plug the thing in and go. Aiming and shooting with a keyboard and mouse, I swear, how do you do it? I never could hit the side of red base with the thing. I can draw smiley faces in it with the xbox. Also, Has the carpal tunnel set in yet?

 

3- Multiplayer : On PC, you can play with hundreds of people online at the same time, on your own screen(no splitscreen crap). And most of the time, it's completely free. Something you can't have on XBox. Comparing PC multiplayer gaming with console multiplayer gaming is, well... I won't say.

I got back to setting up four xboxes versus sixteen PCs. Far, Far less room required. I also prefer to play against people I know after all, instead of the strangers on the internet (No offense to internet gamers)

 

Price is a good reason not to get a gaming PC. But it's the only reason. Unless you're a MAC user, in which case see my Nutjob thread. 

 

Well, arguably the best fps there ever was was on a Mac. But I doubt you ever heard of Marathon.

[alanschu]

It's so much more fun playing with people in the living room than some faceless people online though. Especially in competative games.

 

The people that you play against online don't have to be faceless either. The most fun I have playing online is with my friends. And we often use VOIP to trashtalk. The only thing that's different is that we're not actually in the same room.

[SSgtSniper]

How can people be so certain about the cost of the XBOX at the end of its life?

 

$300 to make the XBOX?  Unlikely.  I suspect the majority of the "XBOX is losing money" on its sales was for the fixed costs of R&D.

 

Unless Intel and the rest of the companies that make the stuff is totally giving Microsoft the shaft in prices.  Intel could sell the processor for the XBOX for $1 and still make a profit on it.  The only thing that could be increasing the cost is that Intel doesn't have many fab units making the old cores.  Making a microprocessor is ridiculously cheap.

 

Even then, upgrading all of the components in the XBOX to the components in your computer, is still chump change.  The prices that we see for those components are not the prices that the big OEM companies pay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, you'll laugh at this, it was Nvidia screwing xbox. And it was well documented. The xbox had a special chip that they paid through the nose for the entire run of the unit. Which is why they refused to go through Nividia on the 360.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

The people that you play against online don't have to be faceless either.  The most fun I have playing online is with my friends.  And we often use VOIP to trashtalk.  The only thing that's different is that we're not actually in the same room.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aside from MMPORGs I've never done that. Most MP is saturday afternoon FIFA stuff or just the family playing something.

[alanschu]

How can people be so certain about the cost of the XBOX at the end of its life?

 

$300 to make the XBOX?  Unlikely.  I suspect the majority of the "XBOX is losing money" on its sales was for the fixed costs of R&D.

 

Unless Intel and the rest of the companies that make the stuff is totally giving Microsoft the shaft in prices.  Intel could sell the processor for the XBOX for $1 and still make a profit on it.  The only thing that could be increasing the cost is that Intel doesn't have many fab units making the old cores.  Making a microprocessor is ridiculously cheap.

 

Even then, upgrading all of the components in the XBOX to the components in your computer, is still chump change.  The prices that we see for those components are not the prices that the big OEM companies pay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, you'll laugh at this, it was Nvidia screwing xbox. And it was well documented. The xbox had a special chip that they paid through the nose for the entire run of the unit. Which is why they refused to go through Nividia on the 360.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hehe, bold move by nVidia.

[alanschu]

The people that you play against online don't have to be faceless either.  The most fun I have playing online is with my friends.  And we often use VOIP to trashtalk.  The only thing that's different is that we're not actually in the same room.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Aside from MMPORGs I've never done that. Most MP is saturday afternoon FIFA stuff or just the family playing something.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I just played through System Shock 2 with a friend this past weekend. It was great fun!

[Llyranor]

VoIP is awesome. You just need friends.

[SSgtSniper]

How can people be so certain about the cost of the XBOX at the end of its life?

 

$300 to make the XBOX?  Unlikely.  I suspect the majority of the "XBOX is losing money" on its sales was for the fixed costs of R&D.

 

Unless Intel and the rest of the companies that make the stuff is totally giving Microsoft the shaft in prices.  Intel could sell the processor for the XBOX for $1 and still make a profit on it.  The only thing that could be increasing the cost is that Intel doesn't have many fab units making the old cores.  Making a microprocessor is ridiculously cheap.

 

Even then, upgrading all of the components in the XBOX to the components in your computer, is still chump change.  The prices that we see for those components are not the prices that the big OEM companies pay.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actually, you'll laugh at this, it was Nvidia screwing xbox. And it was well documented. The xbox had a special chip that they paid through the nose for the entire run of the unit. Which is why they refused to go through Nividia on the 360.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hehe, bold move by nVidia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Hey, it got them the capital they needed to produce some of the advances in graphics cards they have made up to this point. So it worked well for them, I'd guess.

[astr0creep]

I know I was supposed to have left but this struck a cord.

 

1- Portability : LANs on PC have been around since before DOOM, it's nothing new. People have been lugging around towers and monitors since way before Halo came out. If I would drop my XBox in the middle of the street, I would be just as heartbroken as if I dropped my PC. Gamers have a tangible emotional attachment to their gaming rig, console or PC. Its monetary value is secondary.

 

Put your tower through half the stress I have put my oldest xbox through, and see if it still runs. I can safely say, as I pat the cracked-case-but-still-works-unit, it won't.

 

 

Cracked PC case. Still works. Hell I even removed an entire side panel and it still works! Wow! <_<

 

 

2- Ease of use : I can play most games, including those complex RTS games you can't find on consoles, with 10 keyboard keys. How many buttons on the XBox controller? 17 counting 2 sticks. Also, comparing a first-person shooter played on console and on the PC is well... I won't say. Needless to say, NOTHING compares to aiming and shooting with a mouse while running, jumping, crouching, climbing with a keyboard. Key placement is also FULLY configurable which is rarely the case with a controller.

Compare ease with a literal transfer, same game to same game. Halo PC is a bear to get set up with anything approaching a logical keystroke setup. Halo xbox, plug the thing in and go. Aiming and shooting with a keyboard and mouse, I swear, how do you do it? I never could hit the side of red base with the thing. I can draw smiley faces in it with the xbox. Also, Has the carpal tunnel set in yet?

 

 

ASWD, space, Q & E, left & right mouse buttons, scroll wheel. There's your precious Halo. 10 buttons. I don't know CTS, only CTF

 

 

3- Multiplayer : On PC, you can play with hundreds of people online at the same time, on your own screen(no splitscreen crap). And most of the time, it's completely free. Something you can't have on XBox. Comparing PC multiplayer gaming with console multiplayer gaming is, well... I won't say.

I got back to setting up four xboxes versus sixteen PCs. Far, Far less room required. I also prefer to play against people I know after all, instead of the strangers on the internet (No offense to internet gamers)

 

 

You don't need a setup with a PC to play with friends. Same with XBox except that on PC it's free.

 

Price is a good reason not to get a gaming PC. But it's the only reason. Unless you're a MAC user, in which case see my Nutjob thread. 

 

Well, arguably the best fps there ever was was on a Mac. But I doubt you ever heard of Marathon.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I know about Marathon but I never played it myself. Watched a friend play it.

And it was a MAC joke. No need to seem offended.

[SSgtSniper]

alan, just for giggles I'll run you through the rough cost of the xbox throughout it's life.

 

Start at launch. The first xboxes sold for close to 300 dollars. They cost 400 to make. It should have cost closer to 450, but because of that damned Nvidia chip they tried to cut costs on the dvd drive. And a TON of them failed. There was a recall on the now infamous "Thompson drive" xbox. Cost them a ton more.

 

Move forward to the first two rounds of price drops. They were selling like crap, but Halo had just come down the pipe and they saw the chance to save the console. So it dropped to around 200. (Still higher in some locations) the cost of the unit had actually gone UP. The new Phillips dvd drive cost more than the Thompsons, and they were still in the realm of the recall.

 

Finally, the unit drops to 180. Still using the Phillips drive, although it idid have some bugs and could become tempermental. replacement costs were still there for the ones that did fail, but finally the unit had started to go down in cost. At this point, it cost them about 350 to make.

 

Than towards the end, they swapped dvd drives again. To samsung. The cost of the unit had finally gotten down below 300, then the drive change made it go back up to just above. And they had one last recall, this time on power cords. Although costs finally got back to the 300 mark, the unit sold for 150 by this point. MS never made a dime on xbox sales. They did make a ****-ton on game sales, especially after buying several developers like Bungie and others, and making a lot of the big ticket sellers exclusive to the xbox.

[alanschu]

Hey, it got them the capital they needed to produce some of the advances in graphics cards they have made up to this point. So it worked well for them, I'd guess.

 

Meh, I'd wager it filled their pockets moreso than drove things forward. Given their track record, I'd wager that they still would be coming out with the stuff now.

 

Though it would have allowed them to acquire outside IP. I don't recall when the 3dfx buyout happened.

[SSgtSniper]

Hey astro, have you had to make any repairs to your beat up unit? Or upgrades? I haven't had to do either.

 

And the Marathon reference is because I'm a Bungie fan, not a Mac fan.

 

Oh, and this?

ASWD, space, Q & E, left & right mouse buttons, scroll wheel.

 

May as well be greek, especially if you don't have a scroll wheel. Which didn't exist at the first release of Halo PC, nor did I have one even until rather recently.

Edited February 21, 2006 by SSgtSniper

[kumquatq3]

Of course it is going to cost $700+ and be delayed till '07

 

 

It isn't cheap to reverse engineer The Revolutions controller into a boomerang shape.

[Surreptishus]

May as well be greek, especially if you don't have a scroll wheel. Which didn't exist at the first release of Halo PC, nor did I have one even until rather recently.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Erm.. what??

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Scroll wheels have been around for ages. I know I had a tracker with a scroll wheel prior to the Xbox even being released.

 

I'd guess he was refering to using the scroll wheel to switch weapons up and down or something.

[astr0creep]

Hey astro, have you had to make any repairs to your beat up unit? Or upgrades? I haven't had to do either.

 

And the Marathon reference is because I'm a Bungie fan, not a Mac fan.

 

Oh, and this?

ASWD, space, Q & E, left & right mouse buttons, scroll wheel.

 

May as well be greek, especially if you don't have a scroll wheel. Which didn't exist at the first release of Halo PC, nor did I have one even until rather recently.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Being upgradable is actually one of the PC's strength. it's also why the console market has to rework itself every five years. To keep up with the PC's technologies.

 

Scroll wheels existed when Halo PC came out. Scroll wheels have been available for like 10 years now. Do you mean on your PC?

 

Again, $$$ is the only reason not to have a gaming PC. Or at the least to open your mind to other things. I prefer my PC but I still go on my PS2 often enough. it's really great to have both.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Again, $$$ is the only reason not to have a gaming PC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Two big ones I can think of.

 

1. Lack of games

2. Lack of willingness to patch every bloody game you buy

 

Being upgradable is a two edged sword. I know when I buy a console I'm getting 100% out of every game for the lifespan. Your probably looking at at least two graphic card upgrades with a PC over 5 years each of which will probably cost you the same as an entire console would.

Edited February 21, 2006 by ShadowPaladin V1.0

[SSgtSniper]

Well, that's interesting. I never even saw a scroll wheel mouse until 2003. Ah hell, who cares.

 

And how long is that patch for WoW? Like five hours? On DSL? Main reason I never bought the game.

 

That number is from a couple of friends who do have it, btw. I didn't pull it from the air.

Edited February 21, 2006 by SSgtSniper

[alanschu]

You won't get 100% out of your consoles for 5 years. This can easily be shown just by looking at the graphical quality of a console's first generation games compared to their last generation games.

 

 

 

As for a long time patching, not sure why a 5 hour download is a big deal. I typically do those downloads while I'm either sleeping....or browsing internet forums. The thing I like about it in WoW is that it often results in new content.

 

 

And I got my first mousewheel in 2000. A friend of mine had his since 1998.

Edited February 21, 2006 by alanschu

[astr0creep]

Again, $$$ is the only reason not to have a gaming PC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Two big ones I can think of.

 

1. Lack of games

2. Lack of willingness to patch every bloody game you buy

 

Being upgradable is a two edged sword. I know when I buy a console I'm getting 100% out of every game for the lifespan. Your probably looking at at least two graphic card upgrades with a PC over 5 years each of which will probably cost you the same as an entire console would.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. I COMPLETELY disagree. There is a steady stream of PC games all year round. And most of them are better then console titles.

2. Thats your problem. You must be lazier than me, which is no small feat. Patching takes 5 minutes. And if you count mods with your patching, bring'em on.

 

Upgradability is a 2 edge sword but again, only because of the $$$ factor. Granted, it's a big one and that's why I also have a PS2.

[SSgtSniper]

Alan, I just don't have that kind of patience. When I put the thing in the tray, I want to be playing inside of ten minutes. Or I can live without it.

[astr0creep]

You won't get 100% out of your consoles for 5 years.  This can easily be shown just by looking at the graphical quality of a console's first generation games compared to their last generation games.

 

 

 

As for a long time patching, not sure why a 5 hour download is a big deal.  I typically do those downloads while I'm either sleeping....or browsing internet forums.  The thing I like about it in WoW is that it often results in new content.

 

 

And I got my first mousewheel in 2000.  A friend of mine had his since 1998.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And as far as the PS2 is concerned, some first generation games won't play on a PS2 if you buy the console today. Because consoles have versions too :ph34r:

[SSgtSniper]

Again, $$$ is the only reason not to have a gaming PC.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Two big ones I can think of.

 

1. Lack of games

2. Lack of willingness to patch every bloody game you buy

 

Being upgradable is a two edged sword. I know when I buy a console I'm getting 100% out of every game for the lifespan. Your probably looking at at least two graphic card upgrades with a PC over 5 years each of which will probably cost you the same as an entire console would.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. I COMPLETELY disagree. There is a steady stream of PC games all year round. And most of them are better then console titles.

2. Thats your problem. You must be lazier than me, which is no small feat. Patching takes 5 minutes. And if you count mods with your patching, bring'em on.

 

Upgradability is a 2 edge sword but again, only because of the $$$ factor. Granted, it's a big one and that's why I also have a PS2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

See the aforementioned WoW patch. According to two friends, it took somwhere around five hours to download. One says a little more, one a little less, I split the difference.

[alanschu]

Alan, I just don't have that kind of patience. When I put the thing in the tray, I want to be playing inside of ten minutes. Or I can live without it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Then that is your shortfall, not the PCs.

 

Still not sure how that relates when you can download it when sleeping.

 

 

But if you can handle missing out on stuff because of a tiny download, then have at 'er. I prefer to not deny myself any opportunity.

Edited February 21, 2006 by alanschu