alanschu Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Consoles aren't sold with keyboards. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now, you are just being silly. They can be made adaptable to them. And how much does a keyboard cost like 20 bucks? lol Here is a link for our skeptical friend. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're the one being silly. Nartwark's point that console's don't come with CDs is a very valid one. Especially seeing as that $20 price tag suddenly makes an $80 game a $100 game. Besides, you should be happy....the Pirates! remake made it on to the XBOX. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Huh? Who is talking about CDs here. You mean keyboards? Sorry but $20 for a keyboard is chump change for all the games you want on a console. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whoops, I meant keyboard. Chump change? In your opinion perhaps. This argument doesn't fly with the DVD argument, and it won't fly for keyboards either. There has to be a large variety of games to effectively take advantage of it before it will become a popular purchasing decision.
alanschu Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Deus Ex was definitely a fun title. I am looking forward to playing its spiritual predecessor , System Shock 2, in a few weeks <{POST_SNAPBACK}> SS2 came first <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Umm... That is what predecessor means... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yeah, my reading skills were off. Spiritual is often followed by successor, so while quickly reading it over that's how I read it.
metadigital Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Consoles aren't sold with keyboards. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now, you are just being silly. They can be made adaptable to them. And how much does a keyboard cost like 20 bucks? lol Here is a link for our skeptical friend. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're the one being silly. Nartwark's point that console's don't come with CDs is a very valid one. Especially seeing as that $20 price tag suddenly makes an $80 game a $100 game. Besides, you should be happy....the Pirates! remake made it on to the XBOX. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Huh? Who is talking about CDs here. You mean keyboards? Sorry but $20 for a keyboard is chump change for all the games you want on a console. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whoops, I meant keyboard. Chump change? In your opinion perhaps. This argument doesn't fly with the DVD argument, and it won't fly for keyboards either. There has to be a large variety of games to effectively take advantage of it before it will become a popular purchasing decision. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The point isn't that the cost is notional. The point (you were right, Nartwak) is that it is not assumed for the developers. It is not part of the default control system. OBSCVRVM PER OBSCVRIVS ET IGNOTVM PER IGNOTIVS OPVS ARTIFICEM PROBAT
Lancer Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) Consoles aren't sold with keyboards. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Now, you are just being silly. They can be made adaptable to them. And how much does a keyboard cost like 20 bucks? lol Here is a link for our skeptical friend. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> You're the one being silly. Nartwark's point that console's don't come with CDs is a very valid one. Especially seeing as that $20 price tag suddenly makes an $80 game a $100 game. Besides, you should be happy....the Pirates! remake made it on to the XBOX. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Huh? Who is talking about CDs here. You mean keyboards? Sorry but $20 for a keyboard is chump change for all the games you want on a console. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Whoops, I meant keyboard. Chump change? In your opinion perhaps. This argument doesn't fly with the DVD argument, and it won't fly for keyboards either. There has to be a large variety of games to effectively take advantage of it before it will become a popular purchasing decision. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The point isn't that the cost is notional. The point (you were right, Nartwak) is that it is not assumed for the developers. It is not part of the default control system. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> So you are assuming it will *never* ever be part of the default control system or at least a feasible alternate in the not too distant future? If there is need for it (meaning a lot of occidental RPGs on consoles some time down the line), they will find a way to make it part of the default control system. I agree that as of this moment the need isn't great (occidental RPGs aren't exactly popular on consoles yet) but that is not to say that things won't change in the near future as more and more PC developers go to consoles and the market for such games expands.... The fact that you can get USB keyboards for current consoles is just a sign of things to come...Unless of course people stop whining about having to use a controller.... Edited February 13, 2006 by Lancer Lancer
Nartwak Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Will this happen before or after they start to bundle light guns?
alanschu Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 The point isn't that the cost is notional. The point (you were right, Nartwak) is that it is not assumed for the developers. It is not part of the default control system. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, the thing I was trying to relate in with the cost is that it's tough to assume that someone is willing to buy the keyboard just to play your game. As you said, because it's not standard, developers can't assume it's there. If they do, they're likely limiting their market.
Lancer Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) The point isn't that the cost is notional. The point (you were right, Nartwak) is that it is not assumed for the developers. It is not part of the default control system. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, the thing I was trying to relate in with the cost is that it's tough to assume that someone is willing to buy the keyboard just to play your game. As you said, because it's not standard, developers can't assume it's there. If they do, they're likely limiting their market. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Who said anything about using the keyboard to play just a *single* game? If (When, let's be optimistic) the occidental RPG becomes a sizeable market on consoles, and people just can't use a controller because of "interface" issues, the keyboard "problem" would have to be addressed. Edited February 13, 2006 by Lancer Lancer
Judge Hades Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 With as many buttons there are on a console I don't think that a keyboard is necessary to make a PC styled CRPG.
Lancer Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Will this happen before or after they start to bundle light guns? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If you pre-order a PS4 now, you will get those light guns at half price.. Otherwise, they come at the normal rate. Lancer
Lancer Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) With as many buttons there are on a console I don't think that a keyboard is necessary to make a PC styled CRPG. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I personally agree.. I just don't know how many people like Nartwak there are that would whine about "interface" issues due to the lack of a keyboard. It is possible that they would be a small minority.. who knows? I personally would have no problem playing an occidental RPG with a controller, unfortunately for others it would be. Just don't know how many of those "others" there are and whether or not the numbers would be significant enough to justify making said RPGs compatible with keyboards. Edited February 13, 2006 by Lancer Lancer
Spider Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 I thought the whole point of the whole consoles-don't-come-with-keyboards-argument was that playing console games with mouse and keyboard would seriously detract from the experience and won't even be possible for many setups. I do not want to have a mouse and keyboard when sitting on my coach with only a coffee table in front. Or when sitting in a couch-chair with no table at all in front of me. In the case of RPGs it's probably the mouse-functionality that is missed the most rather than a lot of buttons on a keyboard (I don't think I use more buttons in any RPG than there are on the average gamepad). So the revolution controller is going to be very interesting indeed.
Lancer Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Whine? Man, **** you. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The feeling is mutual Lancer
Lancer Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 In the case of RPGs it's probably the mouse-functionality that is missed the most rather than a lot of buttons on a keyboard (I don't think I use more buttons in any RPG than there are on the average gamepad). So the revolution controller is going to be very interesting indeed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This may be so.. Whatever that revolution controller/keyboard or what not will be interesting indeed. Lancer
Nartwak Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 ****ing moron. Do me a favor and gas yourself. Protip: Amonia + Bleach.
Lancer Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) ****ing moron. Do me a favor and gas yourself. Protip: Amonia + Bleach. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I wouldn't give you the pleasure. But you could try that on yourself. Now you do sound like you are whining. Keep it up, you are doing wonderful. Edited February 13, 2006 by Lancer Lancer
astr0creep Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 I really think death threats are against the forum rules. Also, being amazingly so off-topic... There are enough action/RPGs or Hack & Slash RPGs. Give us First-Person Shooter/RPG Hybrids like Morrowind but much more focused and varied. First-Person Arcanum (w00t) http://entertainmentandbeyond.blogspot.com/
Lancer Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 There are enough action/RPGs or Hack & Slash RPGs. Give us First-Person Shooter/RPG Hybrids like Morrowind but much more focused and varied. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There are more than enough action RPGs. And more importantly if their purpose is to be successful on the market to generate enough funds for the creation of more "profound" RPGs, they are not doing a good job. Lancer
Diogo Ribeiro Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 You are suggesting Obsidian, Bioware or whomever to create only action RPGs on consoles which would give them the established funds required for their less mainstream projects (i.e original IPs, or "real" RPGs)on the PC? In fact, the suggested attitude was to develop action RPGs parallel to computer roleplaying games, with the first type of game being viable as a financing for the second type. So, no, I didn't suggest a company should exclusively develop action RPGs for console platforms.
alanschu Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Who said anything about using the keyboard to play just a *single* game? If (When, let's be optimistic) the occidental RPG becomes a sizeable market on consoles, and people just can't use a controller because of "interface" issues, the keyboard "problem" would have to be addressed. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Unless people are buying multiple games when they purchase this keyboard, the initial cost is applied just to the single game. You're being too optimistic if you think people will immediately feel that their investement in the keyboard will open up many new games. And I mean, optimism makes everything sound easy. With a bit of optimism, games are never released with bugs, and are always wonderful and fun. If you do need a keyboard for interface, the only way Western RPGs are becoming a sizeable market is if the consoles start shipping with keyboards (or some other input that addresses the interface).
Lancer Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) Unless people are buying multiple games when they purchase this keyboard, the initial cost is applied just to the single game. You're being too optimistic if you think people will immediately feel that their investement in the keyboard will open up many new games. I never said this. I said if the occidental RPG market somehow becomes a significantly large market on consoles, they (the developers) would have to address the keyboard/interface/controller issue if sufficient fans complain that the controller provided isn't viable. If you do need a keyboard for interface, the only way Western RPGs are becoming a sizeable market is if the consoles start shipping with keyboards (or some other input that addresses the interface). <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I don't know about that. You need to start by getting the console players interested in PC-style RPGS first before worrying about revolutionary keyboards and such. Just because you redesign a controller to become friendly to PC-style RPGs, doesn't mean that all of a sudden console players will be playing these RPGs. When the market expands to the point that hardware considerations become an issue, then worry about them then. What you are talking about here is more of a "preference" issue than an interface issue. We need to attack their psyche first, before worrying about the hardware. Edited February 13, 2006 by Lancer Lancer
Lancer Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 So, no, I didn't suggest a company should exclusively develop action RPGs for console platforms. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Besides "action RPGs" (and big brand names like Star Wars), what other "mainstream" RPG genres would interest console aficionados to the point where enough funds would be generated from them alone to allow creation of profound RPGs and IPs? Lancer
Diogo Ribeiro Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 Besides "action RPGs" (and big brand names like Star Wars), what other "mainstream" RPG genres would interest console aficionados to the point where enough funds would be generated from them alone to allow creation of profound RPGs and IPs? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Maybe you should ask them since I'm not a console aficionado to begin with. Also, the previous point was about discussing how (successful) action RPGs were a viable means of financing the development of other games, in particular intellectual properties and/or computer RPGs. If there are equally successful RPG subgenres, or non-RPG genres that would provide for the same financial success and long term stability, you can easilly replace the term "action RPG" with the appropriate term. It isn't about action RPGs themselves but rather commercially successful titles. Console action RPGs seem to fit the bill so I assume that's why they were a mainstay of the conversation.
Lancer Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) In answer to my own posed question: Perhaps some sort of squad-based strategy-RPG hybrid might interest console gamers. Maybe something like this done correctly would generate sufficient revenue to allow creation of other types of occidental RPGs. I would certainly favor that over another trite action RPG. Edited February 13, 2006 by Lancer Lancer
Lancer Posted February 13, 2006 Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) Maybe you should ask them since I'm not a console aficionado to begin with. That's what i thought but talk is cheap. It was *your* idea. You favored the concept so much it just seemed you had something in particular in mind. Apparently not, Console action RPGs seem to fit the bill so I assume that's why they were a mainstay of the conversation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And how have console action RPGs been particularly successful thus far? Has there been any console action RPG that has out-sold KotOR? Edited February 13, 2006 by Lancer Lancer
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