The Religion Thread

[WITHTEETH]

it was just to get people thinking about how there are people who do things like that: make their own religion that is totally without truth and not even caring either.

You really know truth. Your smarter then Socrates! (w00t)

Edited December 7, 2005 by WITHTEETH

[Blank]

edit: i certainly wasn't trying to flame or skew any other religion. like i said, it is just an example of some people's beliefs.

You really know truth. Your smarter then Socrates! (w00t)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

do you know as truth that Socrates existed? Or isn't he just a character in Plato's writings?

 

but anyway, of course i am smarter than Socrates. i could beat him in chess any day.

Edited December 7, 2005 by Blank

[WITHTEETH]

Exactly, im willing to doubt Sacrates's existance, are you willing to doubt Jesus's?

Edited December 7, 2005 by WITHTEETH

[Blank]

Exactly im willing to doubt Sacrates's existance, are you willing to doubt Jesus'?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

No. Socrates is not necessary for your worldview. Jesus is necessary for my worldview. if socrates was necessary for your worldview, then i would pity you, but i would still respect your views.

 

What the idiot psuedonym was saying in my other post was random things all conglomerated into one that suited him best. at least my worldview is backed up with a thousand and a half year old book that many smart people believe in. i also feel that it is inspired by God Himself as do many others when we read it.

 

edit:

so what is the "truth"? at least i believe it actually is the truth and have no doubt about it. i am simply confused about people that know what they believe may not be true and they don't care if it is true or not, which is what i think started this in the first place.

Edited December 7, 2005 by Blank

[WITHTEETH]

Thats fine, im not saying what you believe in is not true. I only mean to challenge you. If you really intrested in Jesus's life i recommend you might compare Jesus with Siddhartha, and also with Caesar, there are remarkable parrallels.

May the force be with you!

[Blank]

Thats fine, im not saying what you believe in is not true. I only mean to challenge you. If you really intrested in Jesus's life i recommend you might compare Jesus with Siddhartha, and also with Caesar, there are remarkable parrallels. 

May the force be with you!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

thanks. if i was never challenged, what good would my faith be?

[kirottu]

So, lets say your life is full og good works and good deeds, so much so that you are practically seen as a saint but you are against Christianity and the tenets it teaches.  So, all that goodness and such is wasted then?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I side with Mothie on this one. Jesus will be the judge of that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So what about before Jesus or even before christianity? Did everyone go to hell or was there giant waiting line growing in heaven?

 

I have never understood why some people want to keep hold of idea of: God created world --> God created man --> God ordered man to worship him and live by God

[WITHTEETH]

so what is the "truth"? at least i believe it actually is the truth and have no doubt about it. i am simply confused about people that know what they believe may not be true and they don't care if it is true or not, which is what i think started this in the first place.

Why are others confused about truth? because to others it simply cannot be known. It is impossible to reach. Do you know the truth to how god actually works, do you know how that entity actually thinks? No, thus god works in mysterious ways.

 

If everything is based on a first assumption then nothing is absolutely certain. If nothing is absolutely certain then everything is subjective. "Truth is subjectivity". Kierkagaard a danish christian philosopher said this.

Edited December 7, 2005 by WITHTEETH

[Blank]

Do you know the truth to how god actually works, do you know how that entity actually thinks? No, thus god works in mysterious ways.

 

If everything is based on a first assumption then nothing is absolutely certain. If nothing is absolutely certain then everything is subjective. "Truth is subjectivity". Kierkagaard a danish christian philosopher said this.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

well, i don't think God's ways are mysterious. lol. i don't think God is wrong at all. i have said a few times before that God is the definition of "good" since He invented it and "sin" is all that is apart from Him. I believe that there is an absolute truth and that people interact with it on a subjective level. and when people agree on certain things and verify them over and over again then it is just as good as truth: i.e. the force of gravity. we don't know exactly what it is, but it seemingly happens to all of us, so we just accept it as a truth.

[Blank]

So what about before Jesus or even before christianity? Did everyone go to hell or was there giant waiting line growing in heaven?

 

I have never understood why some people want to keep hold of idea of: God created world --> God created man --> God ordered man to worship him and live by God

[Blank]

^ Just what part of that is even remotely good?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

uh, sorry for triple posting... but one big long edited and spliced post is harder to read i think.

 

In answer to the question: God is just. He has laws, we broke them, we are guilty of death. God is good. He provides a means of salvation for us that we do not deserve. What part of this is not good? the fact that God won't say, "well i gave you free will and you disobeyed me, so i guess i will just take my law and screw it." No, instead, He has Jesus satisfy justice for our sins.

 

(a prayer i felt compelled to write)

thank you Papa for loving us enough to have your son live a perfect life and die a painful death. we don't deserve it, but we greatly appreciate it. please help us to return thanks to you in our obedience by loving you and loving others.

[kirottu]

Answer to your second post...

 

So is there any religion whose God doesn

Edited December 7, 2005 by kirottu

[kirottu]

^ Just what part of that is even remotely good?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In answer to the question: God is just. He has laws, we broke them, we are guilty of death. God is good. He provides a means of salvation for us that we do not deserve. What part of this is not good? the fact that God won't say, "well i gave you free will and you disobeyed me, so i guess i will just take my law and screw it." No, instead, He has Jesus satisfy justice for our sins.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But this is against your second post where you said God forgives faithful. So basicly Jesus died for nothing if our sins are already forgiven.

 

"God is just. He has laws, we broke them, we are guilty of death. God is good. He provides a means of salvation for us that we do not deserve."

 

So God first judges us unworthy of living, because we don

Edited December 7, 2005 by kirottu

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I rather kick him in the jimmy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

nice one Hades now I have to clean tea off the screen.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

example:

i will make a religion that is best for me. okay, let's see, we have that jesus from christianity, he's a nice character, i'll take some of that. and then in other religions they don't meet all the time every week, so i will take that. i dont want to meet every stinking week! i am a busy person you know. there are things that are very important to me. i don't care if the things i do aren't important to anybody's "true God", that doesn't bother me. and whatever i do will be considered good deeds in my religion, and it'll also be my "manifest destiny" too. and screw other people, this is about me and only me. next there is buddhism, and i like that reincarnation idea, so i will take that one, but i will definitely be a super rich person in my next life, because that is just what i will put in my religion. and those buddha statues look cool, like, i can't stop looking at them and talking about them because they are so cool, better than any other statues for sure. i will call mine "Jay Lent" because i like that one funny guy on tv at night (jay leno) and i also want it to be a catholic sacrament as well (lent). wow, my religion is shaping up to be very convenient for me. hmm, what else. oh, islam, if i ever kill somebody on accident or on purpose, they will be considered infidels in my religion, and i will have lots of virgins when i go to heaven, and i'll go there when i die, but that is after i am reincarnated as a rich man...*stares at Jay Lent statue* wow that statue is so cool. it is made of jade you know. alright, i will also be a god, like in mormonism i think. i will get my own planet and stuff. i'll make it so my religion can be the same as anybody else's at any time, so if they ever ask about it, i will just say we believe the same thing. it changes as i go about my day. And i almost forgot! Jedi are so cool. i will be one with the force when i die for a while because i get to be a blue ghost and i can walk through all sorts of walls and statues, like Jay Lent *fawns at Jay Lent*. and when i am rich in my next life i will get a lightsaber, single bladed, no, double, yeah, double bladed with a blue crystal. i will think of more stuff later, but for now, this religion is the best for me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

May as well, it's what Humans have been doing since prehistory.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Science is superior since it offers tangible benifits to a wider audience.

 

In the context of 7000 ish years the bible is probably quite believable, in the context of the true age of the earth it's not.

 

Symbolism is an excuse used when reality starts to contradict your "evidence" if part of it is symbolic, then why not the whole lot. Which leaves you with making up your own religion or following one that was created by another man and not a god at all.

[Blank]

But this is against your second post where you said God forgives faithful. So basicly Jesus died for nothing if our sins are already forgiven.

i must not have specified: Jesus died for the faithful, which is the means by which the faithful are forgiven!

"God is just. He has laws, we broke them, we are guilty of death. God is good. He provides a means of salvation for us that we do not deserve."

 

So God first judges us unworthy of living, because we don

Edited December 7, 2005 by Blank

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

So what about before Jesus or even before christianity? Did everyone go to hell or was there giant waiting line growing in heaven?

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

One of my favourites that :D

 

Heaven and Hell is just a ripoff of Hades and Eulysium. Gods suprisingly similiar to Zeus in how he's portrayed and with the whole tossing of lightning thing. Zeus can be traced back to an earlier religion too, although the name of the culture dosnt come to mind at the moment.

 

Religions that were created in isolation bear little resemblence to each other (even if the source is the same such as ancestor worship).

 

The only reason that christianity jadaism and islam do ,is that christianity and islam basically nicked the main character from someone elses book and wrote it in a way that made them happy. This took less effort and gave the religion more credence (just like using a brand name) than starting from scratch. Then they proceeded to kill anyone who didnt agree, since a healthy dose of fear does wonders for spreading your message.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I am really okay with the idea that i am sinful from birth. that is an integral part of my belief, because "all have sinned" and therefore need Jesus to be saved.

 

it is not okay that we sin, but God still forgives. What? you are complaining about how God is being just and punishes sin with death and then you are complaining about salvation through Jesus as the atonement for justice? Christians are abusive to God. They abuse their relationship with Him. God is not abusing us, but offering forgiveness, now take it dangit. (jk about the last 4 words, but how would you be hurt by just praying once and believing once?)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not, not only is it a logical fallacy it's also dangerous since you could just lock everyone up from birth. Or go the Dark Judge route and kill everyone since they are all guilty.

 

If god punishes sin with death then why are the prisons bursting with all manner of criminals ? Why dont people keel over after commiting a crime ? Do wonders for the crime figures wouldnt it.

 

Want to hear a fun anology :D

 

christians are people who live in their parents basement and bother them every time they have a problem.

[SteveThaiBinh]

I haven't committed any crime against God. If he wants to charge me with something specific, let him do so, and we'll hear it in a court of law with a jury present. That last is important - justice demands that I be judged by my peers.

 

I'm not OK with the idea that people are sinful from birth. Have you ever seen a baby? They're so innocent and helpless, and have so much hardship ahead of them already, it's actually shameful that we brand them as sinful simply in order to construct a world view that pleases us.

[Blank]

I'm not, not only is it a logical fallacy it's also dangerous since you could just lock everyone up from birth. Or go the Dark Judge route and kill everyone since they are all guilty.

 

If god punishes sin with death then why are the prisons bursting with all manner of criminals ? Why dont people keel over after commiting a crime ? Do wonders for the crime figures wouldnt it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

When i am saying death, i refer to after you die on earth and come to judgement before Christ: you have sinned and are penalized by eternal separation from God in a pit of fire where satan is going to go and will suffer along with all other non-believers and won't be the king or whatever of that hell. which is a stupid misconception. here is a verse that shows why one should accept Christ so that we can be saved after our life on earth. if you read this in context, you will see that it is making the point that i am claiming it is making. but i hope you can trust my use of scripture as 'in context' since i have done it many times and wouldn't use it otherwise:

 

1 corinthians 15-

"If we have hoped in Christ in this life only, we are of all men most to be pitied."

(because it would be pointless! since He wouldn't be able to save us for eternity! however, he can, so no worries.)

 

Also, you couldn't lock everyone up from birth unless you believed that you are God's supreme hand of judgement. lol. and you wouldn't be Biblically based if you believed that. God will judge us with the same standards we judge others.

 

Matthew 7:2-

"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

 

I haven't committed any crime against God.  If he wants to charge me with something specific, let him do so, and we'll hear it in a court of law with a jury present.  That last is important - justice demands that I be judged by my peers.

 

I'm not OK with the idea that people are sinful from birth.  Have you ever seen a baby?  They're so innocent and helpless, and have so much hardship ahead of them already, it's actually shameful that we brand them as sinful simply in order to construct a world view that pleases us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But search your heart. you know you have sinned don't you? haven't you ever done even one of the following: lied? stolen? lusted after a woman? coveted another's possesion? Used the Lord's name in vain?

very hard to believe that you are that rightous. A court won't matter when you are before Jesus in the end. He is the only judge that matters.

 

As for babies, they are born into sinful nature (sorry about before when it just said "sin") because of Adam. Adam was an idiot and sinned, but we would've all done the same thing. we already have sinned and we aren't in his position anyway. here is a verse that supports this:

1 corinthians 15:22

"For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive."

 

Yeah, it seems unfair that we are condemned to sinful nature from birth, but then there is Christ, through whom all can be made alive, so stop complaining and start believing (jk about the last 6 words, but really, why would it be so bad to accept Christ?)

 

Some people try to make cases for babies who died at an early age saying, "God knows what they would've done in their life". And like you guys have been saying, how could Jesus judge them automatically as total sinners? Doesn't make sense for a gracious God. so i will just leave with the fact that God is gracious and omniscient and will judge the babies accordingly.

Edited December 7, 2005 by Blank

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I haven't committed any crime against God.  If he wants to charge me with something specific, let him do so, and we'll hear it in a court of law with a jury present.  That last is important - justice demands that I be judged by my peers.

 

I'm not OK with the idea that people are sinful from birth.  Have you ever seen a baby?  They're so innocent and helpless, and have so much hardship ahead of them already, it's actually shameful that we brand them as sinful simply in order to construct a world view that pleases us.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That not why they came up with the original sin thing. Original sin is a way to guilt good people into joining the cult. Like you said if you have never done anything wrong then you should have nothing to fear, but that leaves a lot of people who can then blisfully ignore you. If on the other hand you convince them they were born guilty then they have no choice but to join up.

 

This is especially true in the days of high infant mortality where people were very eager to get their kids baptised just in case they died.

 

That still leaves the ones who are born but die before they can be "forgiven". Take a pretty heartless bastard to send those to hell wouldnt it.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

When i am saying death, i refer to after you die on earth and come to judgement before Christ: you have sinned and are penalized by eternal separation from God in a pit of fire where satan is going to go and will suffer along with all other non-believers and won't be the king or whatever of that hell. which is a stupid misconception.

 

you couldn't lock everyone up from birth unless you believed that you are God's supreme hand of judgement. lol. and you wouldn't be Biblically based if you believed that. God will judge us with the same standards we judge others.

 

Matthew 7:2-

"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You do realise that the idea of humans hanging out with god would be akin to you hanging out with a bunch of ants for eternity...

 

Nice to see you can pick and choose whatever interpretation suits you , just like all the other creators of their own religions. In some circles what you just said would be considered a heresy and thats a fast track trip to hell if ever there was one.

[Lucius]

When i am saying death, i refer to after you die on earth and come to judgement before Christ: you have sinned and are penalized by eternal separation from God in a pit of fire where satan is going to go and will suffer along with all other non-believers and won't be the king or whatever of that hell. which is a stupid misconception.

 

you couldn't lock everyone up from birth unless you believed that you are God's supreme hand of judgement. lol. and you wouldn't be Biblically based if you believed that. God will judge us with the same standards we judge others.

 

Matthew 7:2-

"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You do realise that the idea of humans hanging out with god would be akin to you hanging out with a bunch of ants for eternity...

 

Nice to see you can pick and choose whatever interpretation suits you , just like all the other creators of their own religions. In some circles what you just said would be considered a heresy and thats a fast track trip to hell if ever there was one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

- BURN HER!!!!

[Blank]

When i am saying death, i refer to after you die on earth and come to judgement before Christ: you have sinned and are penalized by eternal separation from God in a pit of fire where satan is going to go and will suffer along with all other non-believers and won't be the king or whatever of that hell. which is a stupid misconception.

 

you couldn't lock everyone up from birth unless you believed that you are God's supreme hand of judgement. lol. and you wouldn't be Biblically based if you believed that. God will judge us with the same standards we judge others.

 

Matthew 7:2-

"For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you."

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You do realise that the idea of humans hanging out with god would be akin to you hanging out with a bunch of ants for eternity...

 

Nice to see you can pick and choose whatever interpretation suits you , just like all the other creators of their own religions. In some circles what you just said would be considered a heresy and thats a fast track trip to hell if ever there was one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

um, no. even catholic theology agrees with what i said. and i am sure any fundamentalist christian group too. this is just stuff you don't hear often because either #1 people don't want to give you the time of day to explain it, or #2 they don't know themselves, or #3 read the bible and see for yourself if you are so incredulous!

 

EDIT: i edited the post i did before this one and a few posts happened since then, so in case you thought you read it all... i ask that you would go back to read it again, since i don't want to post the same thing over and over and become annoying.