Russia Confirms Sale of Missiles to Iran

[kumquatq3]

Can I spam this now?  I'm kind of trying to level up.

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WOT posts don't add to post counts, remember

[Child of Flame]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

OOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111!!!!1eleventyseven!!!1

Edited December 6, 2005 by Child of Flame

[Blank]

It should be noted that pretty much anything Bush decides to do in favor of Israel will make his opinion polls go up not down, as there are not only more Jews in America than in Israel, but also, Christians tend to think, due to their holy book, that anything good done to Israel God will reward you for.  So by helping Israel out, our country would be earing brownie points with God.

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oh, i don't think that... i don't know how one could earn brownie points by helping israel out other than that it is helping someone. but is it hurting someone at the same time? i don't know. but i do know that the Christians who think that God differentiates between Jews and non-Jews are wrong:

Galatians 3:28

There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

[Kinslayer]

Can I spam this now?  I'm kind of trying to level up.

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Please don't.

[kumquatq3]

@ Blank: ^ kinda talk about "choosen people" in there too. It's a little confusing like that

Edited December 6, 2005 by kumquatq3

[Child of Flame]

Blank, your theology is off.

 

I'm too f'n lazy to refute something I don't believe in anymore with actual scripture though. Look for verses that imply that what you do to God's Children you do to God, and those who harm them will have harm brought back upon them sevenfold, etc.

 

Christians are God's children as well, but the Jews are special.

[Blank]

@ Blank: ^ kinda talk about "choosen people" in there too. It's a little confusing like that

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okay, here it is in better context. i don't see how this is confusing. Paul is talking about Christians, or sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus. maybe you are talking about the last sentence in these verses. but you should note that it is conditional, "if you belong to Christ, then you are..."

 

Galatians 3:26-29

You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. If you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

[Child of Flame]

Blank, it is not the same thing!

 

The verses I am talking about are divine rewards/retribution for how you treat God's Chosen People.

 

Whether the Jews are walking with God or not, they are always his Chosen People.

 

Christians have to accept him before getting the fringe benefits.

 

In other news, Lucifer is a pretty okay dude, Yahweh is a real ****, and Odin is the bestest deity ever.

[Blank]

Blank, it is not the same thing!

 

The verses I am talking about are divine rewards/retribution for how you treat God's Chosen People. 

 

Whether the Jews are walking with God or not, they are always his Chosen People. 

 

Christians have to accept him before getting the fringe benefits. 

 

In other words, Lucifer is a pretty okay dude, Yahweh is a real ****, and Odin is the bestest deity ever.

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but which ones are they? anyway, i think it is the same, for here is another verse that backs up what i am saying:

John 1:11-13

He [that is, Jesus] came to His own [that is, Jews], and those who were His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God , even to those who believe in His name, who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

 

Note that God gave his believers "the right to become children of God"

[kumquatq3]

You guys are ruining my debate about blowing **** up with your god stuff

[Child of Flame]

Children of God != Chosen People.

 

One is a choice, the other is by birth.

[Kinslayer]

I read every word in it.

 

and I'm saying it doesn't have to be fully independent.

 

 

Whats the "good" solution here? In a perfect world, from our view, Iran agrees to give up the good for more food for it's people or something.

 

NOT GONNA HAPPEN

 

So now what?

 

1. Nuclear Middle East, with a risk of many dying

 

2. Non-Nuclear Middle East, with a risk of many dying

 

EDIT: 3. Battleship diplomacy that, if fails, leads to #1 or #2

 

pick

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I refuse to pick any of them as I firmly believe there are many other possible outcomes/solutions that are much brighter for the people of the Middle East.

And BTW your objectivity seems to be clouded by your pessimism which isn't so realistic as you may think and it shouldn't be anbodies point of view who'll have an impact on the future of the ME because quite frankly I've never met or heard in my life of a pessimist who has achieved a significant goal in life and I can't name one person in history who really made a difference for the humankind in a positive way and been a pessimist.....hope.....there's always hope....tomorrow is a whole new day

 

Cheer up

 

...gotta run...

[Blank]

Children of God != Chosen People. 

 

One is a choice, the other is by birth.

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agreed. so if one does something good to a chosen one of God, that is Christian or Jew, then you believe that they will recieve rewards/retribution?

 

EDIT: lol, oh i see what you are saying, you are excluding Christians from children of God. and you are using juxtapose when saying one is a choice and the other is by birth. okay, then disagreed. we will never resolve this probably, but i still would like to see your verses for blessings when one does something good to the chosen people and then verses that refute who i say children of God are (i.e. christians and Jews).

Edited December 6, 2005 by Blank

[kumquatq3]

I refuse to pick any of them as I firmly believe there are many other possible outcomes/solutions that are much brighter for the people of the Middle East.

 

Um...like?

 

What I've read, you have (at most) a year before Iran has nukes. At that point, the "fluffy happy ending" doesn't even exist. At that point, things change.

 

And BTW your objectivity seems to be clouded by your pessimism which isn't so realistic as you may think and it shouldn't be anbodies point of view who'll have an impact on the future of the ME because quite frankly I've never met or heard in my life of a pessimist who has achieved a significant goal in life and I can't name one person in history who really made a difference for the humankind in a positive way and been a pessimist.....hope.....there's always hope....tomorrow is a whole new day

 

Cheer up

 

 

Did.....did he just try and win an arguement with Hope and Love?

 

**** it, we're all screwed.

[Child of Flame]

Children of God != Chosen People. 

 

One is a choice, the other is by birth.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

agreed. so if one does something good to a chosen one of God, that is Christian or Jew, then you believe that they will recieve rewards/retribution?

 

EDIT: lol, oh i see what you are saying, you are excluding Christians from children of God. and you are using juxtapose when saying one is a choice and the other is by birth. okay, then disagreed. we will never resolve this probably, but i still would like to see your verses for blessings when one does something good to the chosen people and then verses that refute who i say children of God are (i.e. christians and Jews).

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I don't believe in any of it anymore, as there were too many inconsistencies, the only reason I ever brought it up, was to point out that if Bush did decide to go to bat for Israel, it would likely have a postive effect on the polls rather than a negative one.

 

When I did believe, the only verse I can really think of that suggests there are rewards for being nice to other peoples, is the one where Jesus said if you give your brother a drink when he is thirsty, it is as if you did it to him. That applied to anyone though, not just Christians or Jews.

 

On the other hand, there are...a lot, of verses that imply that if you side with the Jews your nation will be strong and prosperous, and if you make war on them, you will get you stuff mucked up.

 

Then again, who do you think wrote all those verses?

 

(Hint: It wasn't Gentiles.)

 

EDIT: I just read your edit after slipping it in mine (kumquat posted while I was typing) I am banging my head against my desk now, because you don't seem to have gotten any of what I have said.

 

Maybe after I take a nap I'll fell like digging up verses, but only becaue I'm hella contrary like that.

Edited December 6, 2005 by Child of Flame

[kumquatq3]

kumquat posted while I was typing

 

My apologies

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I don't believe in any of it anymore, as there were too many inconsistencies, the only reason I ever brought it up, was to point out that if Bush did decide to go to bat for Israel, it would likely have a postive effect on the polls rather than a negative one. 

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Does that mean you are cured ?

[Child of Flame]

More or less, still a Deist though.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

More or less, still a Deist though. 

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In what way ?

[kumquatq3]

Odin

[Child of Flame]

More or less, still a Deist though. 

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In what way ?

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Creation still defies all laws of physics without a divine spark, and I still believe in miracles.

 

And yes, any deity who sees you as his equal after you fight alongside him is awesome so Odin counts as okay in my book.

Edited December 6, 2005 by Child of Flame

[Blank]

the only reason I ever brought it up, was to point out that if Bush did decide to go to bat for Israel, it would likely have a postive effect on the polls rather than a negative one.

you are probably right

 

EDIT:  I just read your edit after slipping it in mine (kumquat posted while I was typing)  I am banging my head against my desk now, because you don't seem to have gotten any of what I have said. 

 

Maybe after I take a nap I'll fell like digging up verses, but only becaue I'm hella contrary like that.

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i already think the verses you speak of are in the Bible. but that's in the OT. however, even if it still applies, Jesus tells His believers to love others, all others, and that this is the second greatest commandment under loving God. and you love God by loving others, so that works out well. and you shouldn't love others in order to get rewarded, because after this one parable Jesus tells His followers:

 

Luke 17:10

"So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'"

 

it is only what we ought to do, but God will still reward those who serve Him anyway because He is gracious that way and knows that it is hard to do. i am just saying that Christians who think they should be doing good things exclusively or especially to Jews are in the wrong, because #1- Jews are not the only chosen people anymore, #2- Jesus says to love others and doesn't say 'love only Jews' or 'love Jews specifically', #3- Bush makes mistakes... and so does everybody. you might say, "but his mistake is egregious", however, so are other people's mistakes. drop your armchair judgementality and actively try to change things if you want them different so badly.

[jaguars4ever]

When the enemy has anti aircraft weaponry you just don't use aircraft.  Israel will probably use the same tactics that their enemies use.  Well placed car bombs and attack on key civilian centers.  They have done so before in Syria.

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Forget that ****, we got...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Child of Flame]

If the Jews aren't special then whey do they factor into all End Time prophecies so heavily Blank?

 

They are still God's People even after they rejected Christ. Unless you've cut of a very Calvinist cloth, certainly you believe that you had to accept Jesus into your heart to become a Child of God.

[kumquatq3]

When the enemy has anti aircraft weaponry you just don't use aircraft.  Israel will probably use the same tactics that their enemies use.  Well placed car bombs and attack on key civilian centers.  They have done so before in Syria.

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Forget that ****, we got...

 

Wow, that thing really does take a long time to come into range