Echani

[alcaldemb]

Looking at he Echani in KoTOR II, where they actually modeled the Echani as white haired, light skinned and light eyed people that are exceptional warriors dressed in white, it occured to me that the inspiration for them, atleast for the Wizards of the Coast people were the Nibelungs in the story Die Nibelungenlied. The Nibelungs were warriors from the fog/clouds, they were honorable, exceptional fighters and seem remarkebly similar to the Echani. While most people like to cite the Samuraii for everything in Star Wars involving warriors, it seems to me as if the Druid like nature of the Echani in Atris academy, the cathedral like environment of the Telos academy, and their white hair, light skin, light eyes, and white clothes being indicative of a fog or cloud type image would suggest that they could most closely be indentified with the Nibelungs.

[Jotun]

Is it surprising that Obsidian's inspiration is a little more creative then Lucas's, really?

 

At least, I think it was Obsidian who devoloped that particular image of Atris' Echani, anyway.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Myth is a good place to borrow ideas and inspiration. Mandalorians strike me as Vikings. They have their honor code of battle, they rape and pillage for the soul purpose of gaining honor.

 

Same goes with the Echani and the Nibelungs.

 

The Jedi are more or less modeled after a Far East religion like Bhuddism. They practice peace with the inner self and the outside world.

[Musopticon?]

Vikings didn't rape and pillage just for some arbitrary notion like 'honor'. They did it for raping and pillaging. The relevant shores were much more arable and bountiful than old Scandinavia.

Edited November 13, 2005 by Musopticon?

[CoM_Solaufein]

Vikings didn't rape and pillage just for some arbitrary notion like 'honor'. They did it for raping and pillaging. The relevant shores were much more arable and bountiful than old Scandinavia.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's right I was wrong in that. Too little sleep affects one's memory. But the Mandos are more like the vikings because of their honor in warfare. To gain great honor so they could be sent to the halls of Valhalla when they died with the other great warriors.

[Musopticon?]

Let's clear this once and for all: Honor or ethos or whatever is something the posmodern world has made up. Back then it was all about expansion and survival. Realms in constant war etc. You need a nation in peace in order for ideas and ethics to raise up.

 

Edit: Now that I'm on a roll anyway. The Samurai were a corrupt class of sheephumpers and tyrants, many of which were gays. The Bushido meant siht when there was power to grab.

 

Rape and pillage, people. Rape and pillage.

Edited November 13, 2005 by Musopticon?

[CoM_Solaufein]

The Samurai were a corrupt sort. You can plainly see this when the Japanese put the Bushido code back in the military during WW2. Just look at what the did to China for instance.

 

 

Back at Vikings and Norse mythology it's something of great interest to me which is why I brought it up.

[Musopticon?]

I'm just a history bum, that's why I like bullying small people.

 

Anyway, have you read Edda?

Edited November 13, 2005 by Musopticon?

[CoM_Solaufein]

History and mythology has always been a thing of mine.

 

Edda? No not yet. I do have it amongst my collections of Iceland Sagas, Kalvala and other Scandinavian history and mythology books.

Edited November 13, 2005 by MasterRevan

[alcaldemb]

Myth is a good place to borrow ideas and inspiration. Mandalorians strike me as Vikings. They have their honor code of battle, they rape and pillage for the soul purpose of gaining honor.

 

Same goes with the Echani and the Nibelungs.

 

The Jedi are more or less modeled after a Far East religion like Bhuddism. They practice peace with the inner self and the outside world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I kind of agree with the view on the Vikings, I saw the Mandalorians as being more like the ancient Goths, the Yuuzhan Vong as being the Huns/Mongols, the Republic/Empire being ancient Rome, Coruscant being like Babylon/Rome, Alderaan being like Athens, and Corellia being somewhat like Carthage or Canaan. Kuat reminded me somewhat of colonial era Spain, big time ship builders, but they spent a lot of their money on luxury, and with no major source of income they will probably go somewhat broke in the EU.

 

When I first saw the Echani in KoTOR I didn't really place them, but after seeing how they were represented in KoTOR II and then reading the story Die Nibelungen (the original not Wagner) and that whole warrior from the fog/cloud thing just really struck me as being how the Echani are portrayed in both KoTOR II and by the Wizards people.

 

I always saw the Jedi as a cross between the Samurai and Plato's Guardian. Similar warrior code to the Samurai, but similar role and actions to the Guardian. The Guardian was not allowed to have a family, get married etc, their family was the state, the protected and ruled it as philosopher kings.

 

I originaly thought of the Mandalorians as Huns until I saw that they integrated into Galactic society to an extent, and they were not that foreign. The Vong on the other hand are the Huns/Mongols, because they came from very far away, and were very foreign, exceedingly brutal, and did not integrate at all.

 

I will say this, I have had a lot of trouble placing exactly who the Chiss are, if anyone has any ideas please feel free to share.

[Musopticon?]

I say you're reading too much into this.

 

Edit: And the internet crashed when I first tried to wirte this, so I bet eh whole universe is going to disagree with me.

Edited November 13, 2005 by Musopticon?

[alcaldemb]

Let's clear this once and for all: Honor or ethos or whatever is something the posmodern world has made up. Back then it was all about expansion and survival. Realms in constant war etc. You need a nation in peace in order for ideas and ethics to raise up.

 

Edit: Now that I'm on a roll anyway. The Samurai were a corrupt class of sheephumpers and tyrants, many of which were gays. The Bushido meant siht when there was power to grab.

 

Rape and pillage, people.  Rape and pillage.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, forgot about that somewhat, the Samurai we all think of was created by the Japanese war time government. Many of them did flee in battle, many of them were no better than common thugs, and you forgot to mention how they would take young boys on their journeys and use them.

 

The Jedi, in my opinion, more closely resemble the Guardians found in Plato's Republic. Honor, state before family, defend the nation, and rule fairly and wisely being above corruption.

[Musopticon?]

Yeah. the jedi are more of an archetype. Imagine how hard would such a moral code and tradition be followed if applied to the real world. E.g Knights Templar.

[alcaldemb]

I say you're reading too much into this.

 

Edit: And the internet crashed when I first tried to wirte this, so I bet eh whole universe is going to disagree with me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Like you I am a history buff, so as one I tend to look for possible inspiration for characters, peoples, etc in stories, games and movies. If you mean I am looking too much into this by identifying who could be who, maybe I am, but it would be interesting to see where the inspiration came from.

 

I think we all know that some inspiration for the Empire was the Nazis, and that Vader's helmet was a cross between the German army helmet and that of a knight.

[CoM_Solaufein]

I just noticed the under title "Ancient Norse mythos the soruce?" The Nibelund and the Nibelungenlied is based on Germanic myth and tales not Norse.

 

*But the two do share common stories and mythologies.*

Edited November 13, 2005 by MasterRevan

[alcaldemb]

Yeah. the jedi are more of an archetype. Imagine how hard would such a moral code and tradition be followed if applied to the real world. E.g Knights Templar.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, it seems that these codes rarely apply in reality. The Templar and Hospitaller (sic), did a fine job of protecting people, if by protecting you mean hacking to pieces. We often look back with rose colored glasses. The Romans and Greeks, who we often see as a high point of civilization, were exceedingly brutal and would mock us for our "morality".

[Musopticon?]

Hah, you remind me of the Theban Immortals. :D

 

Actually, the only instance in history a moral code, or a strict ethos was followed to the letter, was when the Order of St. John took hold of Malta. If self-sacrifice had an avatar, it would be the Hospital Knights.

[alcaldemb]

I just noticed the under title "Ancient Norse mythos the soruce?" The Nibelund and the Nibelungenlied is based on Germanic myth and tales not Norse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

MasterRevan, the ancient Germanic peoples and the ancient Norse are the same people. They both came from the Celtic proto-culture, which persisted amongst the Gauls, Britons and Iberians. The people in Germany, present day Denmark, and the southern coast of Sweden were the first Germanics. They all believed in Odin, Tyr, Aesir, etc.

 

Hah, you remind me of the Theban Immortals. :D

 

Actually, the only instance in history a moral code, or a strict ethos was followed to the letter, was when the Order of St. John took hold of Malta. If self-sacrifice had an avatar, it would be the Hospital Knights.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

More interesting then the Immortals, what was the requirement if one wanted to be a member of the Boetian Sacred Band?

 

The order of St. John would be an extreme rarity though, most groups just got their rocks off by taking some loot, raping some women, and killing civilians.

 

I just noticed the under title "Ancient Norse mythos the soruce?" The Nibelund and the Nibelungenlied is based on Germanic myth and tales not Norse.

 

*But the two do share common stories and mythologies.*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

LOL, sorry MasterRevan, I just noticed the little add on to your post, you can mostly ignore the original reply.

[Musopticon?]

Hah, I was wondering why you used the german name instead of the 'original' norwegian one.

[alcaldemb]

Hah, I was wondering why you used the german name instead of the 'original' norwegian one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Haha, I guess some people are more familiar with Woden, I actually argued with someone eventually convincing them that Odin and Woden are the same guy.

[Musopticon?]

:D Really? What was there to argue?

[alcaldemb]

:D Really? What was there to argue?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Apparently a lot because they insisted for quite sometime that Odin and Woden weren't the same person, and then Thor's lightning went off in their head.

[Gabrielle]

Interesting. Old mythologies being used for present day ideas for games and stuff.

[Sentry]

Myth is a good place to borrow ideas and inspiration. Mandalorians strike me as Vikings.

 

Hmm...

Actually the Mandalorians remind me most of the Japanese wartime culture circa WW2...

 

EDIT:

Oops someone got there before me "

guess I should have read the entire thread before posting... :D

Edited November 16, 2005 by Sentry

[Musopticon?]

Has someone said that the boards color scheme contrasts horrible with your signature image, Sentry? Because it does.

 

As for the Mandos; they're vaguely like the huns or the golden horde. Aegean(?) sea people(the earliest pirates) come also near, but south american natives with their garland wars and war cults spring to mind too.