Deus Ex

[Darque]

You've still yet to say anything that negates what I've said.

 

Clarification: I haven't heard anything that makes me think I'm not correct... given the way DE was built, it's pretty subjective in my opinion as to how it can be classified... and since it's first person "and" plays as an rpg.. I don't see why it can't be considered an rpg/fps hybrid.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Darque

[Hell Kitty]

You've still yet to say anything that negates what I've said.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Eh? The fact that the gameplay in Deus Ex doesn't revolve around firearms based combat as is necessary in a Shooter negates anyone calling it an FPS, hybrid or otherwise.

[Darque]

I disagree.

 

Just because you don't have to fight doesn't negate that.

[Hell Kitty]

and since it's first person "and" plays as an rpg.. I don't see why it can't be considered an rpg/fps hybrid.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

FPS does NOT mean First Person it means First Person SHOOTER. For a game to be a Shooter, hybrid or otherwise, the gameplay need to revolve around shooting, which the gameplay in Deus Ex doesn't.

[Hell Kitty]

Just because you don't have to fight doesn't negate that.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes it does. A game that doesn't require you to shoot is not a shooter.

[Darque]

FPS does NOT mean First Person it means First Person SHOOTER.

 

No kidding?

 

Omg I thought it meant something else.

 

Oh how I've wasted my life on these definitions..

 

Oh, all is woe.

 

For a game to be a Shooter, hybrid or otherwise, the gameplay need to revolve around shooting, which the gameplay in Deus Ex doesn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

No.

 

That's like saying an RPG isn't an RPG just because it doesn't have turn based combat.

[Pagan]

Deus Ex is not an FPS/RPG hybrid, it's an action/adventure with RPG elements.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

sorry, but it played like a fps/rpg hybrid to me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How you play it is irrelevant, what matters is how everyone can play it. Blowing the crapola outta everything is the only way shooters are generally played, whereas in Deus Ex it's just one way to play. A game that allows you to play through the entire thing relying on stealth and avoiding combat is not a shooter.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How you think about it is irrelevant, what matters is how everyone thinks about it.

 

Sorry, I can't help it.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Pagan

[Darque]

Yes it does.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

nope.

[Hell Kitty]

That's like saying an RPG isn't an RPG just because it doesn't have turn based combat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This comment doesn't even make any sense as a comparison to mine.

 

What on earth do you think a shooter is if not a game revolving around shooting?

[Darque]

That's like saying an RPG isn't an RPG just because it doesn't have turn based combat.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This comment doesn't even make any sense as a comparison to mine.

 

Sure it does, I'm sorry if you don't get it, but I'm too tired right now to translate it.

 

What on earth do you think a shooter is if not a game revolving around shooting?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wow.. you "have" to shoot for it to be a shooter.

 

Interesting

 

I'd always thought Duke Nukem 3d was a FPS... but since you can attack with your boot and fly around to avoid combat it must be something else.

[Hell Kitty]

How you think about it is irrelevant, what matters is how everyone thinks about it.

 

Sorry, I can't help it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You are an idiot. One way the game can be played does not determine it's genre, all the ways determine it. DX is not simply a shooter and it is not simply a stealth game, they are merely two ways the game can be played.

 

The fact that Fallout can apparently be played without combat by using diplomacy skills does not mean Fallout is an adventure game.

[Darque]

How you think about it is irrelevant, what matters is how everyone thinks about it.

 

Sorry, I can't help it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You are an idiot. One way the game can be played does not determine it's genre, all the ways determine it. DX is not simply a shooter and it is not simply a stealth game, they are merely two ways the game can be played.

 

The fact that Fallout can apparently be played without combat by using diplomacy skills does not mean Fallout is an adventure game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Flaming.... yeah that'll prove your point.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Darque

[Hell Kitty]

Wow.. you "have" to shoot for it to be a shooter.

 

Interesting

 

I'd always thought Duke Nukem 3d was a FPS... but since you can attack with your boot and fly around to avoid combat it must be something else. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Most FPS give the player a melee weapon, I never said a FPS could only feature shooting, only that it must be the primary gameplay component. For example, If a 20 level shooter features one driving level, that isn't enough for it to be considered a shooter/racing hybrid, just as a shooting level in a 20 level racing game isn't enough for it to be considered an FPS.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Hell Kitty

[Darque]

What on earth do you think a shooter is if not a game revolving around shooting?

 

I never said a FPS could only revovle around shooting

 

splitting hairs there.

[Hell Kitty]

What on earth do you think a shooter is if not a game revolving around shooting?

 

I never said a FPS could only revovle around shooting

 

splitting hairs there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

that was a mistake, which I have corrected in my edited post. That is, the core gameplay component must revolve around firearms based combat, ie "shooting", but that doesn't mean it can feature a melee weapon or two, a driving level or token stealth level. A game is defined by it's primary gameplay component.

[Darque]

Sorry, but you've still yet to convince me.

[Hell Kitty]

Sorry, but you've still yet to convince me.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's rather difficult to argue against you when you've stopped offering any sort of argument. I ask again:

 

What do you think a shooter is if not a game in which the primary gamplay component is firearms based combat?

Edited November 9, 2005 by Hell Kitty

[Darque]

Maybe I don't want to argue

 

Since it seems you won't accept anything but total victory it seems kinda pointless anyway.

 

that and it is 5am here and I really do need sleep at this point.

[alanschu]

The only method of attack in Deus Ex is by mechanics found in First Person Shooter games.

 

 

Choosing not to attack doesn't mean it doesn't have its roots in the FPS genre.

 

Go tell Warren Spector that Deus Ex has nothing to do with FPS games based on an all too literal interpretation of the acronym.

 

 

 

In other news, my essay I'm writing involves the VeriChip company, of which I keep wanting to put down VersaLife. I've put VeriLife soooo many times.

[Hell Kitty]

Maybe I don't want to argue

 

Since it seems you won't accept anything but total victory it seems kinda pointless anyway.

 

that and it is 5am here and I really do need sleep at this point.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Gah, you're more annoying that Volourn.

 

This isn't about "winning" an argument, if people want to insist that DX is a First-Person-Shooter, hybrid or otherwise, I'm going to point out why they are wrong and ask why they believe otherwise. Your refusal to offer any sort of rational arguement can only lead me to assume you are arguing purely for the sake of being annoying.

[Hell Kitty]

The only method of attack in Deus Ex is by mechanics found in First Person Shooter games.

 

Choosing not to attack doesn't mean it doesn't have its roots in the FPS genre.

 

Go tell Warren Spector that Deus Ex has nothing to do with FPS games based on an all too literal interpretation of the acronym.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not claiming that DX has nothing to do with FPS games, clearly any game that features first-person real-time combat has some similarity to shooters, the issue here is whether a game that allows you to avoid combat can be classified as an FPS(hybrid or otherwise).

 

And what do you mean by "an all too literal interpretation of the acronym", how else is a shooter to be defined as a game about shooting? The problem isn't a too literal interpretation of the word "shooter", a genre that doesn't realy offer much room for interpretation, it's that people are often much too vague, like when games like Morrowind are referred to as FPS/RPG, or when game like Max Payne get referred to as FPS.

Edited November 9, 2005 by Hell Kitty

[alanschu]

It's just a method of progressing through the game.

 

The ONLY means of combat is using the first person shooter mechanics. It's entire combat model is based on the SHOOTER style of gameplay.

 

 

Also, Max Payne is not really a First Person Shooter either. In fact, you're the first person I've seen refer to it like that. Why do you refer to it as a First Person shooter though? Because you shoot? But what about the lack of First Person?

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"The ONLY means of combat is using the first person shooter mechanics. It's entire combat model is based on the SHOOTER style of gameplay."

 

And this is why Deus Ex is a FPS? (I only read the last page of this thread)

 

So, I guess Fallout is a turn-based tactical squad game (if you interpret your mules, err, I mean companions, as a squad).

Edited November 9, 2005 by Sarjahurmaaja.

[alanschu]

"The ONLY means of combat is using the first person shooter mechanics. It's entire combat model is based on the SHOOTER style of gameplay."

 

And this is why Deus Ex is a FPS? (I only read the last page of this thread)

 

So, I guess Fallout is a turn-based tactical squad game (if you interpret your mules, err, I mean companions, as a squad).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

No, but Hell Kitty was saying that the "SHOOTER" in First-Person Shooter wasn't fulfilled.

 

 

 

Given your lack of control over your squad, I'd say it's probably not a Tactical Squad game.

 

The discussion involved whether or not Deus Ex is actually an FPS/RPG hybrid.

[BattleCookiee]

Thief is a FPS...

 

And in Thief you try to avoid detection as much as possible...

 

Now, Deus Ex has all ingredients of a UT (FPS) and plays like a UT in combat situations; so would be a FPS.

 

It allows for character costumisation, and has alot of convo so it is also a RPG

 

Result: FPS/RPG-Hybrid... (Ala System Shock 2)