most awesomest thing to happen in a mmorpg, ever!

[Diogo Ribeiro]

*snip*

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. By unofficial means of communication I mean communication that is based and takes place outside the confines of the virtual gameworld. To me the one, main difference that stands between the Germans' transmission of codes trough secret channels and the situation in EVE Online is that the second was dealt with in two different worlds, the real and virtual ones. In the Germans' case there was no kind of fallback, no secondary world where they could get an advantage, or plan one, nor where they could contemplate and operate reality from afar in some substantially different world. No German could log off reality, ask someone what would be the best strategy against his enemies or read a walktrough on how to beat them, then log in again and use that knowledge to succeed, or outright win the game. I think for both situations to be the same, or comparable, I reckon it would be necessary that there existed a second world, and that one of them allowed for the acquisition and use of information that was not subject to the same rules as the 'main' world.

 

Secure channels may be acceptable, and perhaps even necessary, but I think they should be used strictly inside the virtual gameworld. This isn't a failproof method to prevent metagaming but it seems like a way to ensure that any communication, public or private, pertaining to the game remains in the game, not outside. PMs, whispering to a given player, or assembly points exclusively made for, and used by, alliance members come to mind. Without wanting to suggest a 1984esque situation, the logs of conversations in those three channels could be monitored for any metagaming activities that would be considered seriously damaging to the game and gamers; system admins could deal with those situations afterwards.

 

 

2. It was an intricate job, and I admire the level of commitment and hard work they went trough in regards to the game component; it would have been a long, arduous but brilliant campaign for able roleplayers to participate in. But this was also brought down by the apparent befriending of players in real life. Seems a clear case of meta and standard gaming that I don't particularly support. Interactions outside the game should not influence interactions inside the game. Not to this point at least. Meta garden-variety espionage.

 

 

3. Several players do, and I find myself divided but it's mostly a case by case basis. When one is part of the ranks of an alliance there are some assets one can gain access to. Extra citizens, money and information. These are part of the rules and are also a given between a group of players who willingly participate in an alliance. The information however, is a mixed bag. No doubt nothing would prevent someone from telling me someone else's fortification defense values, or army offense ratings for example, especially if they had encountered them in battle or spied them... But that is acceptable when done in the game. When you have people posting lists of their 'farms' (other players who are recurringly attacked and robbed of their resources multiple times) along with their status in some forum, this questions the use and morality of information. You already can access this info within the game trough your own work; is it really justified to expose enemy strenghts and weaknesses to others outside of the game, and let them be easilly obtainable with close to no effort on behalf of players? Personally I am not in favor of this.

 

 

Well, the quick, obvious answer to your question is 'we ask them' but that doesn't always work. A player's motivations are what in turn defines a character's motivations. The problem as we seem to agree comes from guessing these motivations and expect the rest of the gameworld and its virtual inhabitants play along with them. Admitedly I have no ideas that would solve this problem. At first glance the best step forward in achieving this would be to have all the players consciously abide to a code of conduct - not all too dissimilar from the codes of conduct I've abided to in distant P&P sessions - that would have all players agree to roleplay and to do as little metagaming as possible (the cases of enforced roleplaying I've seen in some Neverwinter Nights servers springs to mind), but this is too optimistic and can't account for all possible permutations where gaming and metagaming intertwine. For the most part it seems we're stuck with dealing with these situations and behaviours as it's seemingly impossible to fully police these activities at this moment.

[metadigital]

1. ... In the Germans' case there was no kind of fallback, no secondary world where they could get an advantage, or plan one, nor where they could contemplate and operate reality from afar in some substantially different world. No German could log off reality, ask someone what would be the best strategy against his enemies or read a walktrough on how to beat them, then log in again and use that knowledge to succeed, or outright win the game. ...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

But, how do you know that?

 

ZOMG! Now we know the Nazi secret advantage! Hitler was meta-wargaming!!!!11!!!!one!!eleven!!11!!|||1!

...

At first glance the best step forward in achieving this would be to have all the players consciously abide to a code of conduct - not all too dissimilar from the codes of conduct I've abided to in distant P&P sessions - that would have all players agree to roleplay and to do as little metagaming as possible (the cases of enforced roleplaying I've seen in some Neverwinter Nights servers springs to mind), but this is too optimistic and can't account for all possible permutations where gaming and metagaming intertwine. For the most part it seems we're stuck with dealing with these situations and behaviours as it's seemingly impossible to fully police these activities at this moment.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Even if all material gain were divorced from the virtual gaming, there is still online gain (prestige; fame or infamy), and with it the motivation to achieve success at all costs.

 

Do we level the playing field, and allow anything and everything?

 

Or do we invent some abstract gaming environment that is so discontinuous with RL that it is virtually (:D) impossible to cheat?

[Diogo Ribeiro]

But, how do you know that?

 

ZOMG! Now we know the Nazi secret advantage! Hitler was meta-wargaming!!!!11!!!!one!!eleven!!11!!|||1!

 

I can just picture Adolf reading a guide on concentration camp sims, then logging on to Treblinka and typing I pwn jew!1!!11, with all the letters floating above the camp.

 

His account got so hacked.

 

Even if all material gain were divorced from the virtual gaming, there is still online gain (prestige; fame or infamy), and with it the motivation to achieve success at all costs.

 

Do we level the playing field, and allow anything and everything?

 

Or do we invent some abstract gaming environment that is so discontinuous with RL that it is virtually (:D) impossible to cheat?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Doesn't it depend on what a game is poised to deliver? I suspect the concept of a completely freeform virtual gameworld would suffer if we were to force too many arbitrary restrictions into it, while a more straightforward, conservative approach to a gaming environment would eat itself if there wasn't a good level of moderation and rules enforcement.

[alanschu]

The economic damage has been equivalent to some $16k. Yes, that's RL currency.

 

That's because all they did was take the cash equivalency of the ISK in the game based on the going rate for buying ISK from money farmers.

[213374U]

But, how do you know that?

Um, have you ever managed to log off reality? If so, what substance did you specifically use as a catalyst?

 

 

That's because all they did was take the cash equivalency of the ISK in the game based on the going rate for buying ISK from money farmers.

Um, so?

 

It can be argued that some of the assets stolen and/or destroyed could actually be more valuable than what they are worth in in-game currency, as it's often the case with rare items in MMORPGs. Dragon Sword anyone? :ph34r:

[alanschu]

In that case PVP is just plain evil in some games, since they allow looting.

 

I could have thousands of dollars of equipment on me and get ganked by 20 ppl waiting for me just to loot my phat equipment.

[metadigital]

But, how do you know that?

Um, have you ever managed to log off reality? If so, what substance did you specifically use as a catalyst?

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

... That would be telling.

 

You show me yours and I'll show you mine ...

[alanschu]

In any case, my friend used to play Eve, and thinks the story is bull****. He considers Istvaan to be a pathological liar, so.....

[metadigital]

That is, coincidentally, a perfectly useful trait for the game world!

[Tiliqua]

Eve imo is the very best mmo out there. Ccp, (the company behind Eve) to a large extent lets the players play the game, it's like an online Lord of the Flies. Betrayal, deception, grand alliances, wars, profit, economic ruin, meaningful death are all key elements of this great game.

 

The player base is very sophisticated, supportive but ruthless when necessary. If you have ever thought of giving a mmo a go you should try this game. Be warned though, Eve is extremely addictive.

[Musopticon?]

it's like an online Lord of the Flies. 

 

And that's a good thing?

[metadigital]

To the average socially-challenged psychopath, yes. All good fun!

[alanschu]

I'm guessing no one realized that the person assassinated was holding the conch when they dropped the rock on her?

[alanschu]

(I didn't read the article becase I'm about to but the magazine and I don't want to spoil it or read expansive amounts of written text on my monitor, as nice as it is ...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Fair enough

[alanschu]

Holy Leather Straps Batman!

[alanschu]

A fetish of your own?

[alanschu]

I am detecting quite a fascination with the pickelhaube however.

[alanschu]

Uneasy, yet curiously aroused.

[Musopticon?]

If we get rat necrophilia added to this somehow; this'll be the perfect thread. And I'm going to cry. For my sanity that is.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Read the article again. The economic damage has been equivalent to some $16k. Yes, that's RL currency."

 

Yes, that would be all fine and dandy, if it was the property of the players. Which, I'm afraid it wasn't:

 

B. Rights to Certain Content

 

You have no interest in the value of your time spent playing the Game, for example, by the building up of the experience level of your character and the items your character accumulates during your time playing the Game. Your Account, and all attributes of your Account, including all corporations, actions, groups, titles and characters, and all objects, currency and items acquired, developed or delivered by or to characters as a result of play through your Accounts, are the sole and exclusive property of CCP, including any and all copyrights and intellectual property rights in or to any and all of the same, all of which are hereby expressly reserved.

 

edit: Oh, please, Schu, Meta, spare my thread! Have I not done the same to your threads in the past?

[EnderAndrew]

Rat necrophylia closed the other thread even though it was mostly on topic. I'm not dooming another thread.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"Links, plz."

 

Here you go!

 

You need to scroll a little.

 

Ubiqua Seraph, an Amarr Loyalist corporation that is well known for their unique stance on Amarr politics, was the victim of the largest corporation theft in living memory earlier this week. The theft occured mere days after the official formation of the Aegis Militia alliance, of which Ubiqua Seraph was the executor.

 

Ubiqua Seraph had been struck by the Guiding Hand Social Club, a corporation which, according to GHSC founder and public relations officer Istvaan Shogaatsu, "offers...unconventional mercenary services. These include covert operations, terrorist strikes, and a wide assortment of atrocities we are all too happy to offer on the market."

 

Arenis Xemdal, a member of the GHSC, joined Ubiqua Seraph earlier last year after GHSC had been hired on a contract to get close to Mirial, CEO of Ubiqua Seraph. Although they would not divulge why she was the target, it was hinted at that she was singled out because of her stance on defending the Empire. During the many months he was a member of the corporation, Xemdal proved himself to be a capable pilot, rising through the ranks to gain the trust of all of the high ranking officers. Then, when the time was right, he proposed several initiatives, amongst them moving all of the tech level 2 blueprints to a new location, gaining the rights and responsibility he required to carry out his contract. The total amount of damages suffered from the theft, both in money removed from the corporation and assets removed from the hangers, is estimated at 25-40 billion ISK. You can read the full press release here.

 

Once Arenis had done this, he went hunting with Mirial in a rogue drone pocket in Haras. He proceeded to attack and podkill her, destroying her Navy issue Apocalypse and retrieving the one item that the parties who put a contract on her wanted, her corpse.

 

In retaliation to the GHSC, Ubiqua Seraph were swift to release their own statement, stating that although it was indeed a large blow, "Ubiqua Seraph [uQS] and Aegis Militia [AM] still are operational, and we will continue the fight against the Minmatar rebels and pirate corporations alike. We will not give up, we will not abandon our corporation and our Empire, and we will not, not now, and not in the future surrender to such criminal and despicable acts inflicted on Ubiqua Seraph. We stand by our CEO Mirial, [who] seems to be the main target of this, and as true Seraphim we will survive, adapt and thrive once more." You can read the full press release here.

 

Mirial, although understandably hesitant to talk so soon after the incident, added, "Morale is still good and, if anything we have shown even greater dedication to our mutual ideals. Our allies remain unaffected and have been most gracious in their help and the same goes for those various other individuals that have backed up their words with support. Our starbases remain operational. We will not abandon those in the Bleak Lands."

 

Public reaction to this news has been mixed; some have been praising Arenis for pulling it off, whilst others have been chastising the "despicable behaviour displayed", making remarks such as "they give a bad name to pilots everywhere."

 

Since the incident, many corporations have started to review their security processes, hoping to make sure that they are not the next victim.

[Guest Fishboot]

Who writes that kind of thing? It seems a bit professional for a player, and I can't follow the link back to the original story to figure it out myself. Is there some kind of position for a community guy to collate big events in the EVE universe and post them for the players?

[213374U]

"Read the article again. The economic damage has been equivalent to some $16k. Yes, that's RL currency."

 

Yes, that would be all fine and dandy, if it was the property of the players. Which, I'm afraid it wasn't:

Heh. All MMORPGs have that sort of EULA. It covers the developer's ass in case some dumb fuc/< tries to sue them in the event of a server reset, for instance. The EULA doesn't prevent players from selling their virtual property rights over assets or even entire accounts on Ebay.

 

Nice try.

 

As for the second quote, uh, still I don't see Mirial going "GG!". All it says is that she hasn't quit EVE. A coherent decision for someone that stupid, really.

[Sarjahurmaaja.]

"The EULA doesn't prevent players from selling their virtual property rights over assets or even entire accounts on Ebay."

 

It DOES, however, establish that it's not their property. As Magical Volo would say, "period".

 

"As for the second quote, uh, still I don't see Mirial going 'GG!'. All it says is that she hasn't quit EVE. A coherent decision for someone that stupid, really."

 

I said closer to "GG" than whatever you were proposing. There's no complaining about what happened, and the comments are even IC. To me, it seems that the player is accepting it as a valid way to play the game.