G-Phoria: KotOR II - Did they earn it?

[BattleCookiee]

Not everyone experienced those.

 

I can go to the K1 forums and check out their tech forum and link more than 5 pages of technical issues people had.

 

When someone says a game has a boatload of glitches I'd expect they are glitches that the vast majority of gamers ran in to, not just some people.

 

Read before posting. Every single bug is a gameplay one, and no technical.

Nobody finds them?

How can I make that list then in 2 times through???

[GhostofAnakin]

Not everyone experienced those.

 

I can go to the K1 forums and check out their tech forum and link more than 5 pages of technical issues people had.

 

When someone says a game has a boatload of glitches I'd expect they are glitches that the vast majority of gamers ran in to, not just some people.

 

Read before posting. Every single bug is a gameplay one, and no technical.

Nobody finds them?

How can I make that list then in 2 times through???

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And I'll repeat, I can do the exact same thing with the K1 technical forums.

 

Funny how I've played through the game 4 times now and either didn't run into those problems, or they were so minor that I didn't notice them otherwise I would have bitched about them.

[Dark Moth]

boatload of glitches?  Again, define "boatload".  In my play through I ran in to ZERO glitches.  Zero.  That's not to say they don't exist, but again you use words like "many" and "boatload" so I'd like to hear some examples.  And again I'd hope you give enough examples to justify an exaggeration term like boatload.  In other words, your list better take up half the page otherwise that's another exaggeration on your part.

 

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?sh...ndpost&p=329328

 

(Must be atleast 5 pages if you mean a screen full for "page")

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not everyone experienced those.

 

I can go to the K1 forums and check out their tech forum and link more than 5 pages of technical issues people had.

 

When someone says a game has a boatload of glitches I'd expect they are glitches that the vast majority of gamers ran in to, not just some people.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have been to the K1 forums, and I can tell you that the glitches discussed here definitely outnumber the K1 gameplay glitches. As I said above, you seem to think your single experience and gameplay speaks for everyone else out there. And I am referring to both major and minor gameplay bugs, too.

[BattleCookiee]

And I'll repeat, I can do the exact same thing with the K1 technical forums. 

 

Funny how I've played through the game 4 times now and either didn't run into those problems, or they were so minor that I didn't notice them otherwise I would have bitched about them.

 

Go ahead, and post a few links...

[GhostofAnakin]

I have been to the K1 forums, and I can tell you that the glitches discussed here definitely outnumber the K1 gameplay glitches.    As I said above, you seem to think your single experience and gameplay speaks for everyone else out there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Did I or did I not say that there are glitches. My contention was the use of the word "boatload". That's very subjective on your part, since not everyone experienced all those glitches. I gave myself as example of one that didn't.

 

And even IF I concede the glitches part (K1's galaxy droid anyone? but who's counting), that still doesn't address the other things I asked you to provide proof for that you insisted K2 did poorly.

 

The HK quest? Considering they dropped that quest from the game, it isn't broken. That's like saying the Sleyheron quest with Yuthura Ban (which was touched upon and which was supposed to be in K1) was also a "broken" quest since the planet can still be found in the K1 files.

[GhostofAnakin]

Go ahead, and post a few links...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

http://swforums.bioware.com/viewforum.html?forum=80

 

Feel free to tell me that every single one of those 80+ pages of problems was solved or that only one or two people experienced them.

 

Btw, I still have no clue how you became moderator when the majority of your posts are focussed on pointing out how poor a job Obsidian did with this game.

[Dark Moth]

Alright, I recind the 'boat load phrase', but there were still a lot of glitches, more so than in K1. And I've already given you plenty of reasons why I felt K2 did poorly. If that's not enough for you, I could give you more. You accuse me of being a shameless K1 defender, you seem to be a shameless K2 defender. I guess it works both ways, doesn't it? "

[GhostofAnakin]

Alright, I recind the 'boat load phrase', but there were still a lot of glitches, more so than in K1.  And I've already given you plenty of reasons why I felt K2 did poorly.    If that's not enough for you, I could give you more.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm still waiting for the "many" plotholes. And your reasons for thinking the party members were deeper in K1.

[BattleCookiee]

Did I or did I not say that there are glitches.  My contention was the use of the word "boatload".  That's very subjective on your part, since not everyone experienced all those glitches.  I gave myself as example of one that didn't.

 

So wrong. If you did not encounter the bugs, it doesn't mean there are no bugs. It's like saying that PoR 2 has no bugs, just because you haven't had them...

So, yes, boatload, since there are alot. The amount of bugs is independant on the users who get them. If there are 800 bugs, and somebody only finds 2, it doesn't mean the other 798 do not exist.

 

http://swforums.bioware.com/viewforum.html?forum=80

 

Feel free to tell me that every single one of those 80+ pages of problems was solved or that only one or two people experienced them.

 

80 pages, and since when. OE Technical: 97 PAGES. And more than a year less time for them...

 

I'm still waiting for the "many" plotholes.  And your reasons for thinking the party members were deeper in K1.

 

Go-to/remote...

Mira/hanharr

Go-to/remote (Malachor)

HK-factory

Voice-locked navi-computer

Redemption/The Telos Quests

Etc.

http://forums.obsidianent.com/index.php?showtopic=35668

 

And I also agree on the characters being deeper (only exception Kriea):

Alot less convo, less meaningfull, no romance, characters who want to kill when LS, less interaction during random conversations, once done no more news to find later...

[Dark Moth]

Well, that's my opinion, isn't it? If the amount of pages is your argument for that link, you seem to forget that the K2 glitches page is 97 pages and is also not even as old as K1. K1 is about 2 years old, K2 isn't even a year old. I rest my case. And as for plotholes, we've both already named a bunch (including Battlewookie), so I don't see where I need to explain further there. And especially when compared with K1, then yes, there were many 'plotholes'.

Edited August 10, 2005 by Mothman

[Musopticon?]

Characters deeper in K1?

 

 

 

 

 

[Dark Moth]

Character deeper in K1?

 

 

 

 

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

See? You're brandishing your opinion as fact. Kreia was deep, yes, but then again, you forget that Visas barely had any history, GO-TO wasn't fully-fleshed, and many think characters like Sion and Nihilus weren't deep at all.

[Musopticon?]

I don't get it.

 

 

 

 

[GhostofAnakin]

Go-to/remote...

Mira/hanharr

Go-to/remote (Malachor)

HK-factory

Voice-locked navi-computer

Redemption/The Telos Quests

Etc.

 

And I also agree on the characters being deeper (only exception Kriea):

Alot less convo, less meaningfull, no romance, characters who want to kill when LS, less interaction during random conversations, once done no more news to find later...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How many patches did it take? That's one thing you can fault Obsidian at, is patches. But K1 had a lot of issues as well before they released all the patches. And like I said, even if I concede the "glitches" part, he's (note how my post was directed at him since he was the one who originally made it "fact" that K2 was inferior) yet to explain how.

 

Voice locked navi-computer? How is that a plothole? HK factory was CUT early on. That's not a bugged quest when they fully intended for it not to be included. In that case, like I said, Sleyeheron is also a bugged quest in K1 since there are hints at it when you talk to Yuthura AND if you choose to redeem her and talk to her back at the Jedi Enclave.

 

Malachor V is a mess. I'm one of the first to say so. Thus I have no arguments against the unresolved things that happen on there. But one planet does not make an entire game inferior.

[GhostofAnakin]

GO-TO wasn't fully-fleshed, and many think characters like Sion and Nihilus weren't deep at all.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You didn't get his full dialogue did you? Because, as useless as I found him as a NPC, he actually had one of the more fleshed out and deep backstories of any of them.

[Dark Moth]

Go-to/remote...

Mira/hanharr

Go-to/remote (Malachor)

HK-factory

Voice-locked navi-computer

Redemption/The Telos Quests

Etc.

 

And I also agree on the characters being deeper (only exception Kriea):

Alot less convo, less meaningfull, no romance, characters who want to kill when LS, less interaction during random conversations, once done no more news to find later...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How many patches did it take? That's one thing you can fault Obsidian at, is patches. But K1 had a lot of issues as well before they released all the patches. And like I said, even if I concede the "glitches" part, he's (note how my post was directed at him since he was the one who originally made it "fact" that K2 was inferior) yet to explain how.

 

Voice locked navi-computer? How is that a plothole? HK factory was CUT early on. That's not a bugged quest when they fully intended for it not to be included. In that case, like I said, Sleyeheron is also a bugged quest in K1 since there are hints at it when you talk to Yuthura AND if you choose to redeem her and talk to her back at the Jedi Enclave.

 

Malachor V is a mess. I'm one of the first to say so. Thus I have no arguments against the unresolved things that happen on there. But one planet does not make an entire game inferior.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

As I said, K2's glitches take up 97 pages AND it is a much younger game. And the HK factory is a plot hole because it was directly tied to the game and even HK hinted that you and he would go and investigate it. It is a plothole, not a bugged quest. As for Sleyheron, it's not a bugged quest since it was only reduced to explaining her past and laying the foundation for why she was with the Sith. If Obsidian didn't want the droid quest to be part of the game, they shouldn't have had so many references to it. Especially with all the HK-50's still running around. And I have no patches for K1, yet still found it almost glitch free. I guess that means that it had no glitches, does it? If you can say that K2 had less glitches because you didn't find many.

 

EDIT: and I did get the full dialogue with GOTO. He's basically a droid that malfunctioned because he was given an impossible task and decided to follow a life of crime while still attempting to help the Republic.

[BattleCookiee]

How many patches did it take?  That's one thing you can fault Obsidian at, is patches.  But K1 had a lot of issues as well before they released all the patches.  And like I said, even if I concede the "glitches" part, he's (note how my post was directed at him since he was the one who originally made it "fact" that K2 was inferior) yet to explain how.

 

Voice locked navi-computer?  How is that a plothole?  HK factory was CUT early on.  That's not a bugged quest when they fully intended for it not to be included.  In that case, like I said, Sleyeheron is also a bugged quest in K1 since there are hints at it when you talk to Yuthura AND if you choose to redeem her and talk to her back at the Jedi Enclave.

 

Malachor V is a mess.  I'm one of the first to say so.  Thus I have no arguments against the unresolved things that happen on there.  But one planet does not make an entire game inferior

 

Just edited in a link you might want to see.

Patches: Our (K2) included more bugs with the ONLY patch around...

It didn't take BIS 1/2 year just for 1 patch.

Yes. Voice-locked and HK factory are both mentioned, but never completed. I have never heard things from Yuthura that made me think after the game WTF was That? So IF they are there they are far less obvious.

[Musopticon?]

I remember getting K1 stuck indefinetly at the start of Taris. Everytime until I patched. Damn annoying, but the only real bug I encountered.

[GhostofAnakin]

And I have no patches for K1, yet still found it almost glitch free.  I guess that means that it had no glitches, does it?  If you can say that K2 had less glitches because you didn't find many.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Straw man. I didn't implicitely say K1 had more glitches. I said that if you go to their tech forum you will find that they too had a "boatload" of glitches. My main point was K2's glitches aren't some unnatural phenomenon in the gaming industry that only happened in this game.

 

I'm still waiting for YOU (not battlewookiee. it's a lot easier to provide an argument when you have people helping you with it) to list the "many" plotholes. So far you harp on the Hk factory. That, and the ones I even listed for you amounts to "many" plotholes?

[GhostofAnakin]

EDIT: and I did get the full dialogue with GOTO.  He's basically a droid that malfunctioned because he was given an impossible task and decided to follow a life of crime while still attempting to help the Republic. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Correction, Battlewookiee has provided examples. You've tagged along with his evidence with your "yeah, see right there!" without actually providing anything but your opinions.

 

The fact you simplify GoTo's backstory to what you just did is proof you overstate things to fit your argument, but understate them when they contradict your argument.

 

I'm pretty much done with you because every response is basically in response to Battlewookiee's posts since he's the only one that has provided a thing.

[GhostofAnakin]

Oh and one last thing about the tech forum and how many pages they are at, K1's only at 78 pages, while Obsidian has 97 pages. However, if you look at each forum, K1's tech forum holds FIFTY (50) threads per page, as opposed to the FIFTEEN (15) per page on here.

 

You do the math.

[Dark Moth]

And I have no patches for K1, yet still found it almost glitch free.  I guess that means that it had no glitches, does it?  If you can say that K2 had less glitches because you didn't find many.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Straw man. I didn't implicitely say K1 had more glitches. I said that if you go to their tech forum you will find that they too had a "boatload" of glitches. My main point was K2's glitches aren't some unnatural phenomenon in the gaming industry that only happened in this game.

 

I'm still waiting for YOU (not battlewookiee. it's a lot easier to provide an argument when you have people helping you with it) to list the "many" plotholes. So far you harp on the Hk factory. That, and the ones I even listed for you amounts to "many" plotholes?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

For a game (and especially when compared to K1), yes. Many is a subjective term, too. Battlewookie has already listed more, do I need to list them again? Let me see...

 

1. Telos fuel

2. Goto/Remote scenes (Ebon Hawk+Malachor)

3. Mira/Hanharr scene (Malachor) Also, if you let him live, you aren't sure what happens to him (if he dies on Malachor, or escapes in time)

4. Bounty Hunters

5. Droid factory

6. Nav computer (voice-locked)

7. Jedi redemption

8. Atmospheric sensors (debateable, since that's a plothole IF you don't have Bao-Dur with you when you find them)

9. Kreia/Hanharr scene (Nar Shadaa). The game never explains exactly why Kreia wants Hanharr to keep following Mira.

 

As for the glitches, even if K1 had just as many, you'd think Obsidian would be able to improve on the glitches so there weren't as many. As for GO-TO, you're right there, but you must realize that it too, is only opinion. And so far, we've given plenty of examples, you've given evidence that is either: anecdotal, subjetive, easily countered. I'll say it again: you accuse me of being a shameless K1 defender, you seem to be a shameless K2 defender.

[GhostofAnakin]

1.  Telos fuel

2.  Goto/Remote scenes (Ebon Hawk+Malachor)

3.  Mira/Hanharr scene (Malachor)  Also, if you let him live, you aren't sure what happens to him (if he dies on Malachor, or escapes in time)

4.  Bounty Hunters

5.  Droid factory

6.  Nav computer (voice-locked0

7.  Jedi redemption

8.  Atmospheric sensors (debateable, since that's a plothole IF you don't have Bao-Dur with you when you find them)

9.  Kreia/Hanharr scene (Nar Shadaa).  The game never explains exactly why Kreia wants Hanharr to keep following Mira.

 

As for the glitches, even if K1 had just as many, you'd think Obsidian would be able to improve on the glitches so there weren't as many.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. I already stated that one for you

2. How is the Ebon Hawk one a plothole? The Malachor one, again, I gave you that one

3. that's 1

4. What bounty hunters?

5. Cut content.

6. How is that a plothole? I understood the whole point of that. T3 locked the nav computer so that you (the Exile) wouldn't be able to know where Revan went. Nothing about that is a plothole.

7. I gave you that one too

8. It's not a glitch or plothole when IT CAN BE SOLVED. You even admitted it can be.

9. Because Kreia wants Mira killed.

[Dark Moth]

1.  Telos fuel

2.  Goto/Remote scenes (Ebon Hawk+Malachor)

3.  Mira/Hanharr scene (Malachor)  Also, if you let him live, you aren't sure what happens to him (if he dies on Malachor, or escapes in time)

4.  Bounty Hunters

5.  Droid factory

6.  Nav computer (voice-locked0

7.  Jedi redemption

8.  Atmospheric sensors (debateable, since that's a plothole IF you don't have Bao-Dur with you when you find them)

9.  Kreia/Hanharr scene (Nar Shadaa).  The game never explains exactly why Kreia wants Hanharr to keep following Mira.

 

As for the glitches, even if K1 had just as many, you'd think Obsidian would be able to improve on the glitches so there weren't as many.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

1. I already stated that one for you

2. How is the Ebon Hawk one a plothole? The Malachor one, again, I gave you that one

3. that's 1

4. What bounty hunters?

5. Cut content.

6. How is that a plothole? I understood the whole point of that. T3 locked the nav computer so that you (the Exile) wouldn't be able to know where Revan went. Nothing about that is a plothole.

7. I gave you that one too

8. It's not a glitch or plothole when IT CAN BE SOLVED. You even admitted it can be.

9. Because Kreia wants Mira killed.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

But why did Kreia want Mira killed? And as for the droid quest, it is a plothole since there were direct references to it in the game. And as I said, you and Battlewookie both listed plotholes, so why list them over again?

[BattleCookiee]

1.  Telos fuel

2.  Goto/Remote scenes (Ebon Hawk+Malachor)

3.  Mira/Hanharr scene (Malachor)  Also, if you let him live, you aren't sure what happens to him (if he dies on Malachor, or escapes in time)

4.  Bounty Hunters

5.  Droid factory

6.  Nav computer (voice-locked0

7.  Jedi redemption

8.  Atmospheric sensors (debateable, since that's a plothole IF you don't have Bao-Dur with you when you find them)

9.  Kreia/Hanharr scene (Nar Shadaa).  The game never explains exactly why Kreia wants Hanharr to keep following Mira.

 

1. I already stated that one for you

2. How is the Ebon Hawk one a plothole? The Malachor one, again, I gave you that one

3. that's 1

4. What bounty hunters?

5. Cut content.

6. How is that a plothole? I understood the whole point of that. T3 locked the nav computer so that you (the Exile) wouldn't be able to know where Revan went. Nothing about that is a plothole.

7. I gave you that one too

8. It's not a glitch or plothole when IT CAN BE SOLVED. You even admitted it can be.

9. Because Kreia wants Mira killed.

 

2. Since there is no idea what exactly happened. Tell us what happened...

4. Telos

5. Mentioned only 5+ times ingame

6. Yes, but HK has offered to unlock it. We know Kreia locked it, but there is no way to unlock it even if the game mentioned it should do so later

9. Why?