Should Mark Messier Come Back To Play!?!

[Volourn]

Answer yes or else I'll think you are voting no just to be contary to my opinion. And, if your answer, state which team it should be? The Rangers where his home is, Oilers where his roots are, the Canucks where his personal curse began, or a whole new team?

 

Obviously, being bias, I have to vote for the NY Rangers.

 

[Kor Qel Droma]

I voted yes. Although it looks like he had his last hurrah in New York. Personally, I wouldn't mind him going to the Oilers for his last season. Mainly because the team is dreadfully defecient at faceoffs right now and any centre who can score more than 10 goals on that team is a rockstar.

[Whitemithrandir]

I'd have to say yes.

As for what team he'd be on...

New Jersey Devils?

[Volourn]

Someone wants Ranger fans to murder the Moose. That's diabloical, and is worth a prison term for conspiracy.

 

Kor: Heh. Mess should be able to score 10 goals easily even now. 20 maybe depending if he atcually gets ice time. And, even in his last year, he was one of the better face off centers. "

 

I wouldn't mind himbeing with the Oilers as they're a good secondary team to the Rnagers for the Big Apple Hero.

[Laozi]

I hope he will play in New York, its unfortant that the franchise had to waste away his last year over paying for players who care so much less for the game. Although its with the Oilers that he became an all-star and Hall of Famer, its in New York where he became a legend, and an icon for the things that are still great about Pro-Sports

[GhostofAnakin]

No. Retire already. He's just tarnishing what should be remembered as a phenominal career.

[Volourn]

He's still one of the better players in the league so bah to you. Besdies, he cna't tarnish his career as he's career has been phenomenal. NOTHING can chnage that. Even if he scores 1 goal and has 4 assists, and is -50 next season his career would still have been phenomenal.

 

No one can take all his goal, assists, MVPs, all star games, cups, and leadership pizazz away from him. NOTHING!

[mkreku]

I voted yes. Let the man himself decide if he should retire or not. I trust his judgement enough that he will step down when he can no longer contribute to his team.

 

I'd rather see him in a real hockey town (where they can appreciate his greatness) than New York. Toronto already has enough dinosaurs on the team, but perhaps Montreal? That would shake things up.

[Volourn]

"I'd rather see him in a real hockey town (where they can appreciate his greatness) than New York."

 

Huh? New York is a REAL hockey town. Afterall, they sell out 99.9% of their home games and it's alreayd been decided by everyone that population size has NOTHING to do with it. Haha.

 

And, oh, New Yorkers DO appreciate Moose. Do you even listen to them? The Mess is one of the most beloved NY athletes ever in ANY sport!

 

Besdies, Toronto doens't deserve to have a proven winner until they prove the can win something again.

 

Hahahaha.

[Kor Qel Droma]

I voted yes. Let the man himself decide if he should retire or not. I trust his judgement enough that he will step down when he can no longer contribute to his team.

 

I'd rather see him in a real hockey town (where they can appreciate his greatness) than New York. Toronto already has enough dinosaurs on the team, but perhaps Montreal? That would shake things up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You really like those Leafs, don't you Mkreku? I mean let the Moose be loose. He is still in great shape. And his leadership skills could take a decent team and make it good.

 

And although Montreal would seem like a decent fit, I remember Doug Gilmour had a hard time getting the ice time he needed when he played there. But he did get more than he did in Buffalo, so who knows...

[alanschu]

I voted yes, with a last hurrah in Edmonton.

[Kor Qel Droma]

What do you think Alanschu, maybe move him to second line centre between Isbister and Hemsky? Or do you put him on the top line with Smyth and York?

[GhostofAnakin]

He's still one of the better players in the league so bah to you. Besdies, he cna't tarnish his career as he's career has been phenomenal. NOTHING can chnage that. Even if he scores 1 goal and has 4 assists, and is -50 next season his career would still have been phenomenal.

 

No one can take all his goal, assists, MVPs, all star games, cups, and leadership pizazz away from him. NOTHING!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Tell that to Paul Coffey.

 

He tarnished some of the lustre from his career by hanging on 2 seasons too much. Even hockey analysts point to that when talking about why Coffey should have retired a couple seasons earlier than he did.

 

And Messier is NOT still one of the better players in the league. His stats over the last 5 or so seasons would make him an average player at best.

[alanschu]

What do you think Alanschu, maybe move him to second line centre between Isbister and Hemsky?  Or do you put him on the top line with Smyth and York?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'd put him with the younglings. He'd get it through Hemsky's head that while you're an excellent passer, it's still ok to shoot the puck at the net on occassion.

 

You can put any decent player between Smyth and York, and I think he'll be a contributor. Smyth and York are both pretty talented players.

[EnderAndrew]

Can he still play? That is the real question.

[Kor Qel Droma]

I think at this stage of his career a year off might have done Messier some good. All those little nagging injuries that slowed him up in the past should be gone. I'm not a huge Rangers fan, but I've seen a fair share of their games the past two seasons, he still drives to the net hard, which in todays NHL ( or maybe not now, who knows?) usually equates into points.

[EnderAndrew]

The NHL will be looking at some rules to raise scoring in the game, so that should help guys like Messier.

[Volourn]

"And Messier is NOT still one of the better players in the league. His stats over the last 5 or so seasons would make him an average player at best."

 

Do you really want me to embarass you like I did with Lindros' stats? And, let's not forget the intantgibles that Mess can bring to a club on top of that. Again, the Moose may not be a top 10 player or even top 20; but he's surely one of the better players. Why? He's a player even now that any team would want to have on their club. Period.

[GhostofAnakin]

Do you really want me to embarass you like I did with Lindros' stats? And, let's not forget the intantgibles that Mess can bring to a club on top of that. Again, the Moose may not be a top 10 player or even top 20; but he's surely one of the better players. Why? He's a player even now that any team would want to have on their club. Period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Using the phrase "one of the better players in the league" implies that he IS in the top 10 or 20. If you just meant that he's still capable of playing in the NHL, say so. Don't exaggerate and say he's one of the better players. And, obviously, 90% of the players in the NHL would be welcome additions to any club in the league, so that's pretty irrelevant to say any club would want Messier. Any club would want Todd Marchant or Kirk Malty too, but that doesn't mean either of those guys are "one of the better players in the league".

 

Embarrass me? Go ahead. Matter of fact, I'll help you out by posting his stats over the last 5 seasons.

 

1999-2000 Canucks 66 17 37 54 -15 30 6 0 4 0 131 13

2000-2001 Rangers 82 24 43 67 -25 89 12 3 2 0 131 18.3

2001-2002 Rangers 41 7 16 23 -1 32 2 0 2 0 69 10.1

2002-2003 Rangers 78 18 22 40 -2 30 8 1 5 1 117 15.4

2003-2004 Rangers 76 18 25 43 3 42 1 2 3 1 104 17

 

ONE season of over 60 points, and only ONE twenty goal season. Somehow that just doesn't compare to the likes of Forsberg, Sakic, Jagr, Sundin, Naslund, etc.

 

I'd like to see how you "embarrass" me with those stats and how exactly a guy that averages 54.27 PPG (per 82 games) is "one of the better players in the league".

[GhostofAnakin]

Additionally, here's Eric Lindros' performance over the past 5 seasons as well (he missed a year, so that's why there are only four seasons listed):

 

1999-2000 Flyers 55 27 32 59 11 83 10 1 2 1 187 14.4

2001-2002 Rangers 72 37 36 73 19 138 12 1 4 0 196 18.9

2002-2003 Rangers 81 19 34 53 5 141 9 0 3 0 235 8.1

2003-2004 Rangers 39 10 22 32 7 60 3 0 0 0 83 12

 

Again, how did you "embarrass" me? He averaged a point per game (slightly over) in 1999-2000 and again in 2001-2002. But since then he's been mediocre at best. AND since a big part of his game is playing physical, the fact that he's a walking concussion means he can't play anywhere NEAR up to his physical potential and thus negates half of what made him "The Next One".

[alanschu]

"And Messier is NOT still one of the better players in the league. His stats over the last 5 or so seasons would make him an average player at best."

 

Do you really want me to embarass you like I did with Lindros' stats? And, let's not forget the intantgibles that Mess can bring to a club on top of that. Again, the Moose may not be a top 10 player or even top 20; but he's surely one of the better players. Why? He's a player even now that any team would want to have on their club. Period.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wouldn't cite Messier's stats as evidence of him being one of the better players in the league.

[mkreku]

Fortunately, hockey is a lot more than statistics (or I wouldn't watch it). I would still call Messier (well, at least from the 2003-2004 season) one of the better players in the league. He is such a presence on ice, has such an eye for the game and with his experience, intelligence and grit I am pretty sure I'd rank him at least among the top 20 (which, of course, is an insult to the up-and-coming stars of the game). I don't feel like the NHL has been able to come up with any real talent in the last few years (here's hoping for Crosby) but that's another story.

[GhostofAnakin]

I know stats aren't everything, but how else do you measure intangibles? Leadership? He's been the captain of a team that's missed the playoffs 4 years in a row. So one could argue that his leadership isn't quite what it used to be. Physical play? He's not a physical force at 40+ years old anymore. Sure he's no wimp, but his days of actually being physically intimidating are over.

 

Fact is if NHL GM's were allowed to do a dispersal draft where every single player was put into the draft, Messier would NOT be selected in the Top 20.

[Kor Qel Droma]

Does anybody here know how far behind Gordie Howe is Messier on the all time points list?

[mkreku]

I know stats aren't everything, but how else do you measure intangibles?  Leadership?  He's been the captain of a team that's missed the playoffs 4 years in a row.  So one could argue that his leadership isn't quite what it used to be.  Physical play?  He's not a physical force at 40+ years old anymore.  Sure he's no wimp, but his days of actually being physically intimidating are over.

 

Fact is if NHL GM's were allowed to do a dispersal draft where every single player was put into the draft, Messier would NOT be selected in the Top 20.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some players have the ability to make the players around him better. Messier is one of them. He also has a morale impact and make his teammates work harder. If the leader on the ice throws his body in front of a slapshot to block a puck, it sends a message to the whole team. If the leader bodychecks an opponent outweighing him by 30 pounds, it sends a message to the team. If the leader ruthlessly and self sacrificingly drives to the net everytime he gets the puck, he sends a message to the team. I'm not trying to say Messier is still the player he once was (his stats speak for themselves) but there are plenty of other qualities that experienced GM's would love to have on his team. Don't forget that Messier is a franchise player too and having him on your team for economic reasons only could be reason enough.